Inducing Alopecia Universalis!?!

Controversial & Unproven Methods Restricted: Genetic Therapy, X-Ray, Photodynamic
#1

Hello everybody; this is my first time posting, and just like the title says, I’m curious about what it would take to safely induce alopecia universalis.
This topic has been brought up before in the conversation, but now that some time has past, there is more information on hair growth and what makes up hair follicles in general. I bring this option to the table because for the past nine years I’ve been unsuccessful at maintaining hair growth on a regular basis; I wasn’t even looking to permanently remove it, because I already knew from the start that was not going to be possible with what was/still is commercially available, but I can’t even use it due to the sensitivity of my skin (I’m either allergic, prone to break out, or burn very easily) I can’t even shave anymore, that’s how bad it’s gotten.

So scouring the internet, I could not find anything remotely on clinical hair removal research that had nothing to do with laser much less about the treatment I’m proposing; no doctor or medical professional had ever even thought about doing it apparently, and it has led me to believe that it might be one of the biggest reasons why researchers did not try to implement what they had learned from the multiple causes of hair loss. From a marketing standpoint it wouldn’t be a desired result, even though most women and men preferred to be at least 80% (or more) hairless. I know this wouldn’t be for everyone, but I feel it would be a stepping stone that can help both sides of the hairy aisle, if more people (besides myself) would want this type of Lifestyle being in a controlled study could help better understand how it works, and given that I’m someone who’s out of options and don’t want to just be “happy” with my situation, and yes! that is advertised as the only other alternative if everything else fails, even though they had not done anything new in over 25 years (except maybe enzymes, but that’s nowhere near enough information even though it supposably shows promise, but only when combined with waxing and I can’t do that).
I think we have just been conditioned to accept what is markedally available and if we raise a stink about it we’re being “too demanding” of a “cosmetic issue” while there’s other medical priorities like cancer. It’s the same argument if I ever bring it up into a conversation to just be happy that I’m healthy, and (again) there’s more important medical research that needs to be done, but whenever I bring up the fact that: hair loss and the research/development that surrounds it rivals that of cancer research, even though it’s a “cosmetic issue of the hair” or lack there of, they always rebuttal that “it’s different”; when asking to elaborate, they change the subject.

Sorry that turned into a bit of a rant, but it’s a personal precursor to what I found; I just don’t know how to utilize it and as you can guess I’m not going to be able to get help anywhere else…

Behold!
Abbexa: ELISA kits!

-https:// www.abbexa. com/tlr3-sirna-1

-https:// www.abbexa. com/human-protein-hairless-elisa-kit

-https:// www.abbexa. com/dickkopf-related-protein-2-protein-recombinant

These are just a few genetic kits available from the website that are tied with hair loss/inhibitors. They all say that they are “research only”; and what’s funny is the last one, which is known as the protein DKK2 (the protein that inhibits hair from growing on the palm of your hands and the soles of your feet) specifically says it is not be used for cosmetic purposes, which does make me question if they’re testing it for cosmetic use (doubtful), but the only thing I could find was articles on suppressing tumors.
I tried to get into contact with doctors Angela Christiano and Elaine Fuchs (like many people on this site have tried) to no avail, so I’m trying to figure out who else I could probably talk to or what groups of study, like those in dermatology or Pharmacy, should I get in touch with (I’ve heard of specialized pharmacies that personalized Medical Treatments but I don’t know if that’s applicable to my situation).

And before someone says something along the lines of “this would take a very long time so don’t expect anything overnight” trust me I know, but I’m going to push the issue anyways and I’m not going to wait no 20+ years; I’m getting closer to my thirties and I want to enjoy them, no matter what they’re going to come out with in the next 5+ years I’ve made up my mind on going full hairless, it’s not out of desperation that I make this decision, it’s something that I really want to do but first it needs to exist. And really that kind of attitude, even though it’s being realistic, has this slight undertone that perpetuates the dismissive attitude that’s echoed by mass media against hair removal or at the very least a kind of defeatist attitude basically saying to give up, but I won’t or else the razor industry wins and there will be no point to this site, and I only want that to happen when we actually have efficient hair removal treatments that’s available to everyone and not be at the mercy of the market vultures.

Please and thank you to everyone!

[Edit: Links broken by Moderator. See reply]

#2

There’s only one person I think who could perhaps take a stab at this kind of question, and he’s been absent from this forum for a year or two. I’ve asked him to make a special “guest appearance” but lets see if he will as a special favour to me :slight_smile: When it comes into engaging research of permanent hair removal he’s probably the most experienced person I know in the field of hair removal.

#3

Thank you I appreciate any help I can get :star_struck:

#4

Actually were trying to get Mike logged in but it’s taking a bit.
Maybe I can help a little. I’m trying to figure out exactly what you are getting at.Are you suggesting that somehow one of these kits is used to insert the required gene sequencing into a living human? Because honestly I’m not certain that’s possible, not even for 797$.
Moreso I’m trying to figure out whats driving this request for this level of hairlessness? The only permanent hair removal available is that offered by laser or electrolysis. To date there have been a million sham “HAir loss hair cessation” miracle serums and every one of them, has turned out to be snake oil, a fraud or a sham. Todays modern equivelents are things like the No!No! r one of the many home IPL kits. Having such a deep seated desire for absolute hairlessness (scalp too unless I’m misreading the meaning ovf universal) and such a desire, would make you easy pray for such shams.

Seana

#5

Hi Heather Rae and welcome!

I disabled the links in your post because those products set off a lot of red flags. I would not recommend purchasing them, as they have many hallmarks of questionable products.

In 2020, FDA tested Abbexa COVID rapid test Lot Number L20Z4852X and determined “Should not be distributed - Removed from Notification List”

I need to see more information about what these kits allegedly diagnose or treat, as these statements do not appear to have been evaluated by FDA.

Source:
https://open.fda.gov/apis/device/covid19serology/

#6

I wouldn’t know how to use the kits all I do know is what they’re used for currently and yes I want to be completely hairless that includes my scalp, eyebrows, and eyelashes. I don’t do anything with the hair on my head, and I’ve kind of damaged my eyebrows and eyelashes with home remedies to get rid of pimples (and that actually did work better than the prescribed medicines) but everything I’ve tried to deal with the hair I just don’t have any pain tolerance for no matter how many sessions I’ve done and from what I can tell it’s lighten the color and a little thinner but it still grows out pretty long and is very noticeable against my pale complexion. Like I’ve said I’m under the impression no one thought about this because it’s not a desired result even if it could be done safely not many people want to go bald but I’ve had a long time to really think about it even though it’s not an option and I don’t like the options that are available mostly because there doesn’t seem to be any medical backing to it, it’s all vague and I don’t like that. and yes there’s plenty of people that take advantage of those trying to grow their hair but you actually see doctors in the background constantly at work and even some success, but with hair removal it honestly just looks like they gave up a long time ago and just settle for what’s popular which I really don’t understand though there was plenty of medical articles that suggest that if they did go further they wouldn’t be able to just target specific areas for patients deemed to be unwanted versus what they wanted to keep. It’s all about perception and I just want this to be an option to be at least looked into and that’s dismissed because of the majority.

#7

I wasn’t wanting to purchase them I was using them as examples for potential resources that could be utilized achieve my goal. I don’t even think I could purchase them unless I was a licensed practitioner in the genetic medical field. I am sorry if I went against any rules I’m still trying to navigate the site but I assure you it wasn’t my intention to advertise possibly harmful products.

#8

I imagine that in the coming decades there will be some genetic breakthroughs around hair growth, like therapies related to p53 and programmed cell death, but at this time there are no commercially available or even experimental products available to the public. That whole site looks very suspicious.

#9

I’m trying to get some groundwork because I know that they’re busy doing hair loss and restoration that’s a given. honestly I can’t escape it. if I ever tried to look outside of the key terms of hair removal or else it takes me to another topic entirely, and I can’t utilize what is found in hair loss that could be beneficial to hair removal without circling back to hair loss. and like I said in my previous post, I can’t find anything that’s related to clinical research regarding hair removal/depilation. if I had the pain tolerance I would go back to waxing and use the enzymes that are safe to the human body and also break up the proteins that keep hair from forming. there is a bit of research but it’s hard to gather whether or not if it would be successful, and I know that’s a bit ironic given that I’m searching for something no one’s even tried that’s also a Gamble, but like I said, I don’t really have a lot of pain tolerance. maybe I can talk with my doctors about lidocaine injections (since the creams don’t work for me), I’ve seen articles where people like me can have those prescribed to them before they go to their sessions, normally for laser but I don’t like how laser works and how bad it burns my skin.

#10

Giving this a try … amazing friend Seana. *quick response, mike bono

Your initial statement was: “I’m curious about what it would take to SAFELY induce alopecia universalis.” Indeed, “safely” is the operative word. The short answer … I don’t think “safety” could be achieved. I had a client, years ago, that wanted chemotherapy so that he could induce alopecia universalis. That might work … probably would … I would not accept the consequences.

I’m not sure if you’re looking for a topical application? Such a product, I do not believe, will ever be discovered … because of the anatomy of the skin and hair. I would say it would be impossible for any topical application to selectively affect hairs; and not the skin as well. Or, perhaps you’re hoping for an oral medication … that’s marginally plausible. However, side effects could be horrendous because the medication would probably be some form of “hormone blocker” (with unintended consequences). Then, of course, how would the medication distinguish between hairs and other skin appendages … or even internal mechanisms? Fingernails and toenails are gigantic follicles … and operate nearly identically.

During my early years, when I worked with “special children,” I had a student with alopecia universalis. I discovered that hair is not just cosmetic. Hairs are the skin’s first line of tactile defense. Hairs could be considered nerve endings themselves … think of a tiny bug crawling on your arm. Even shaved hairs offer protection from the sun’s UV rays. This boy had to wear a large hair, fully clothed and gobs of sunscreen. His life was miserable. His social interactions were impossible because of the way he looked.

The idea of inducing alopecia universalis would be desired by an infinitesimal group of people … I would say almost nonexistent. No corporation would invest in such a scheme. I’d say, look more closely at the condition; and be glad you don’t have it!

1 Like
#11

hurray, it worked!
I’m not a doctor, I’m an electrologist. I 'm afraid I cant touch on things like gene resquencing, though it’s “fascinating stuff”. Mike has directly touched on one of my thoughts,t hat is hair has many purposes. It helps regulate body temperature. IT’s a form of adornment , and as Michael stated it aids in the transmission and detection of tactile response. I’m familiar with Sensory issues, my son has severe autism which is very much a sensory disorder. The wanting of “no hair on my body” sort of feels a bit like one of his sensory issues. That’s the reason I was inquiring about the purpose or reasoning behind this level of hairlessness, or is that not what you are asking to accomplish? Then there are the unintended consequences, and finally, from the research I did do the conditions cause is not fully understood or known. In short, we dont know “what the thing is” “how does it work” “what causes it” nort do we have the ability to induce it, though it appears they have done some work into reducing it’s effect ( I’m betting only partially successful) .

Thus my questions, whats driving this desire? Is it truly complete hairlessness your seeking, and if so why? If not, I would hazard a guess that electrolysis and laser, the existing methods, are the best way to accomplish as close to your goal as possible, but as you yourself stated “it would take a long time” . Experience tells me , there arent any shortcuts in the field of hair removal. Also opinions and societal values change all the time. It was the style a few years ago to have pencil thin brows, now “bushy” is in. but when it comes to a compulsion, there is something else driving the desire, so I’m trying to get to the bottom of what that compulsion is and what is causing it.

Edit: I’m having great fun thinking about " Doctor Seana " resequencing genes to remove hair. Why just this morning I played paleontologist and dug up a dinosaur! ( apologies to Mike and all the folks who lost a keyboard to coffee from that comment)

1 Like
#12

I was diagnosed with high functioning Aspergers when I was 8 (I’m 27 now) it was hell for me once I hit puberty. I can’t tell you how painful my time of the month was but I don’t have PCOS just similar symptoms and I guess my sensory issues just made it all that worse. I am on a hormonal birth control for that; I think it’s helped with the hair a little bit but I really can’t tell that really wasn’t the intention of the medicine it was the sharp muscle cramps.
My hair is always been dark and thick and since I was never an outdoor kid I’m very pale. And like I said I’ve tried everything when I did electrolysis (galvanic) on my chin and underarm, I would have what look like rashes for weeks and it was itchy so it made me think it was a rash, and I did that for at least three sessions it hurt a lot during and after so I stopped. When I did laser the first one I did was YAG that burnt me terribly the first time I did it and they suggested to me to do a less powered laser because I had a good combo light skin dark hair so I tried IPL which I understand is not a laser and I thought that would be better it was not it wasn’t as painful but by my fourth session my legs and stomach were all marked up I know that wasn’t the technician’s fault but the way she treated me made me out to be the reason why it did that saying that I was exposed to the Sun when they told me not to I wasn’t I’m always wearing long jeans and sweats and I’ve never showed off my belly. Waxing is still too painful but I’ve heard something about enzymes that’s piqued my interest at the very least I won’t be burned but I’m so turned off by these methods that I’m basically a dog at the vet whenever I think about having to go through it again.
And the reason why I thought a lot on inducing alopecia universalis was just about 4 years ago the idea was starting to become appealing and then I basically was infatuated with the idea once I realized I couldn’t shave anymore it was just too uncomfortable and I’d like to think that I’m very knowledgeable on how to shave with all the research I’ve done to do it correctly I’ve tried different techniques I’ve spent so much money buying different razors creams and lotions I make sure to exfoliate and use products that don’t have any alcohol, parabens, etc using a new razor every time I shaved and then I got to the point that I had to switch out the blades for each leg and that’s after I trim the hairs to make sure they weren’t too long but nothing I did made it feel any better after doing it I could wear nothing on my legs and no matter the temperature it was just unpleasant a breathe would pass by and I’d feel very uncomfortable like it was a rash.
So yeah I feel like I’m out of options and like I said I’m more or less under the impression that it can be done safely it’s just never been thought of because most people don’t want to get rid of their hair; having too much hair often signifies a lack of hygiene I definitely don’t want to be labeled as that, and having no hair makes people think you’re sick unless you’re wearing a convincing wig and other hair pieces. I’ve never been one to follow trends just whatever I felt looked good on me which is hard when I had a lot of insecurities but I’ve never really done anything with my hair aside from cutting it really short to make it manageable and coloring it different natural colors, but if I didn’t have hair I could wear very natural looking wigs and change up my style more often and wear what ever I want without feeling self-conscious, I’ve even taken up research on how to make them wigs because of my hobbies; and I’m fully aware I could wear wigs without having to do that but I feel trapped in my own body because of the clothes I wear to hide the hairs (and don’t get me started on what it feels like during the summer because I don’t wear shorts even though I definitely want to) because I’m not comfortable with showing them. I don’t think it’s ever really going to be trendy to be outspokenly hairy, people try to have push that with no success and even so I’d still feel very uncomfortable doing it cuz I don’t find it attractive one bit even though it’s natural to me it’s like skin feces a by-product of things needing to be pushed out of the body.

#13

What hair is biologically used for does not exceed my need to be comfortable in my one skin; it’s not fundamentally needed such as my heart, liver, and kidneys, which is the reason I would never take chemo; I’m not that desperate. I’m not an outdoors person and I would prefer to wear wigs, I wear them all the time for my hobbies (I’m a cosplayer) and like I said I have sensory issues because I have high functioning Aspergers, and I found a lot of different ways to make wigs very comfortable. And like I said I can’t even do the bare minimum of shaving without feeling like I’m tearing up my skin and I do all the tips and tricks when it comes to shaving.
I’ve just gotten more sensitive to it and that’s what spurred on this whole dilemma of trying to find something that can induce alopecia, which I’ve been under the impression that something like that doesn’t exist not because it’s unsafe to do so, but like you said it’s not desirable for consumers; but I’m not going to let the majority speak for me. If it was an option I can give you a few groups off the top of my head that might find it appealing, especially if it wasn’t painful and had a great selection of natural looking hair prosthetics.
I’m not looking for a targeting method I truly see all of my hair including my scalp, eyebrows, and eyelashes are unwanted I don’t do a lot with my hair I find it very limiting what I can do with it because of how it is versus what I can do on a wig and I’ve destroyed my eyebrows and eyelashes from what I can only assume was my various treatments of trying to get rid of acne when I was younger. And like I said in another comment I know I could wear wigs without doing all that but I still feel very unattractive because of my hair I would love to wear dresses again but I’m way too self-conscious about it I can’t lie and say it’s not also a aesthetic stress but it is also a physical one something I constantly feel and trying to get rid of it with the methods that are commercially available as proved to be very painful and with all the negative experience I don’t want to do it again and having the knowledge I do about how long term hair removal works I will have to do it again and I don’t think it’s worth it especially if I’m still stuck with hair at the end of it.
The type of treatment I want is probably an injection of something that target’s only hair, keeps it from forming on a Cellular level. When I was looking at things like Crisper and knockout expressions that’s what I thought could be achieved; they’re already using it on hair right now to change its color and still trying to utilize it to help make it grow. I want to turn off hair growth I believe the correct term is permanent inhibitance. There’s a protein known as DKK2, it resides in the palm of your hands and the soul of your feet that keeps hair from growing by stopping the formations of cells from gathering and creating hair follicles, so your body naturally does it. I believe that researchers can look at that and base their experiments on it, but the biggest issue that’s keeping that from happening is basically people don’t want it, but like I said I’m not going to let the masses keep me from trying because they don’t want; it that’s ridiculous to me.

#14

Okay, I’m thoroughly convinced something or someone out there is keeping certain information about hair on a tight lid.
I was looking up hair cells and what forms them, cuz I looked this up in the past, and there’s quite a few cells that form together to create what we know as hair follicles, because it’s not just keratin; if it was made up exactly of the same proteins and amino acid as skin it would just be skin there wouldn’t be hair. But now when I look up hair cells it brings up articles on hearing loss. I know there’s hair in the ears that are responsible to help with hearing, but they’re different than what I’m trying to look up. it’s just so weird, I really can’t find the correct key terms to use to find the research and like I said I’m just looking up “what cells make up hair follicles” and either it gives me a vague statement, again, that it’s keratin and just that; or brings up hearing loss.
I guess I’m being paranoid, but this is bizarre.

#15

Okay so I think we have a clue as to what is driving the desire to be hairless.

So to fill some people in Aspergers and autism, are both along the same spectrum of disorders . ASD tends to affect several things, but 2 of the biggest factors are speach delay ( the presence or absece of) and sensory disorder. It can be highly aligned with epilepsy and they carry the same genetic profile. It used to be that aspbergers ( even high functioning aspbergers) was just the presence or absence of speach delay but it’s all been absorbed into the “autism Spectrum Disorder.”
It is a genetic disorder passed from parents to child and I ceertainly have aspects of it, though like our poster here I would also be fairly high functioning. That doesnt mean you wont suffer some effects of it and SENSORY is a really big part of it. Some things just dont “feel” okay and as hair has such an effect on sesory ( see the errector pili muscle) . My son in particualr doesnt like to be touched ( for exmple hair brushing) on the head. It’s entirely possible that the "drive " to be hairless for this individual is a response to dealing with eccessive stimulae from the hair and nearby nerves . From this aspect, the posters questions and responses make a lot of sense in terms of what she is asking for.

I think to achieve the level of hairlessness you seek, the only option is some form of electrolysis. Here in Canada local anesthetic is not avalable, but in the us there are a few places that do ths type of electrolysis . I do recommend however you look at Mike Bono’s the Healing Skin and anagen only theory videos available on this playlist, as it explains a lot of what you are seeing . I feel for this kind of issue, you need someone “REALLY GOOD” who can pout you at ease in regards to skin reactions, and for that reason, I’m really happy to have brought Mike into this conversation. Have a look at his video’s here:

Laser is a quick method to accomplishing a half job in my opinion. It can never “Take you home to hairless” and inevitably those seeking complete removal anywhere, end up going through electrolysis. I dont think however either galvanic nor pure thermolysis are right for you. I think you’ll end up in blend, and it WILL take a long time to reach a state you are happy with. Genetic hair growth can be a bigger bitch than I am but it also can be defeated. I deal with PCOS clients all day so I can definitely relate.

I do recommend , that you seek the services of a qualified therapist to help with symptoms of ASD though. It affects individuals in weird ways sometimes, but while you are on your way to achieving the happy medium I think you’ll end up with I think it is possibly adviseable you see someone that can help you deal with some of the sensory input that is driving you to this degree. By all means, start electrolysis to achieve the degree of hair removal you want, but get at what is driving that desire along the way so that you can deal wit the sensory input. It’s going to be a long road to get to where you want to be, but it is possible if you want it badly enough ( and can afford it) But starting the areas that bother you most, is a good way to get going.

Seana

#16

I don’t think I had the mental strength to go through that again and for that long; it’s like somebody trying to lose weight at a very slow pace and not seeing results and they give up, and it’s just stressful is the best way I can put it. I might do it for my face, I’m still very wary of it since my last session which was over nearly 5 years ago. Lots of red spots and bumps after three sessions and that’s the thing with a lot of these long-term devices I’ve tried and gone to professionals for, it wasn’t the fact I wasn’t seeing results early on, I knew I was going to have to wait, but it was the negative reaction my skin was showing that made me stop.
I do want to try going back to waxing this time making sure my skin is more prepped and trying to get my doctors involved I also want to pair this up with enzymes. there’s not a lot of research but I honestly think that’s because people don’t want to go through waxing they want new stuff that’s not going to be painful just like I was trying to do with injections this was the second option trying to inflict scarring alopecia but I’d be doing this alone with doctors supervision making my own experiment I just gave up on waxing cuz I know that wasn’t going to do anything and I had to do it for a long time but I want to do something beyond the consumer market because really I hate them and I kind of see it as a challenge as weird as that is.
I really don’t know how to express this I feel like I’m trapped and I feel a lot of people both on here and professionals don’t want me to get rid of my head hair more than they don’t want me to do something that’s risky because a lot of people have said why would you go to such extremes again implying that it’s more about me keeping my hair on my scalp then the risk involved they are worried about it but it’s my body and if I don’t want hair on my head that’s my decision not anyone else’s the risk I’m trying to keep as low as possible for both my appearance and for my general health both mentally and physically.

#17

I cant speak for anyone else here, but I dont believe anyone here has not wanted you to get rid of your hair ( in any location you choose). It’s just not what we do here at hairtell. Quite the opposite actually we’d love nothing more than for you to be able to realize your goals.
I dont recommend waxing, it causes a lot of ingrowns and can cause hairs to become more developed from repeatedly being ripped out by the root.

#18

Understanding that your condition can make you very sensitive to touch and hair does make you more sensitive. Trying to induce a condition like alopecia that is extreme, the skin is the largest organ of the human body. And having alopecia effects your immune system. I have worked with clients who have it and cancer patients who are also hairless. Being hairless effects your eyes, nails and teeth also. Wearing a wig is not comfortable even the costly wigs can be bothersome. And it will add another sensation you might not like and you will feel the wig. Have you tried biofeedback? Talk to your doctor about how bothersome hair is to you. I use numbing cream on the sensitive clients with I do the electrology that may help you proceed w a form of permanent hair removal. Good luck,