I'm Gone. Adios.

Hair Removal Methods Do-It-Yourself Electrolysis
#1

In my time here I’ve tried to diplomatically ask question, pass on tidbits to others, and be a positive influence on this board.I’ve learned a great deal from some of the people here and where possible tried to re convey some of the concepts.

I’ve also made clear that while I do study to be a professional, and practise daily, I’m a DIY’er and not a pro at this point. The pro’s are clearly marked with every post as to their status.I’m not. It’s plain and simple like that.
Sometimes ( frequently) I get direct comments, publicly or privately, asking for my input on some things. I do my best to answer some of those inquiries.But through that I’ve had to constantly defend my opinions, because there are some here who believe that I shouldnt have the right to contribute or post to this board. That they are better than me, or that my opinions dont count . And despite that I make clear on every post, even ones directly addressed TO ME that the professionals opinions may vary and PROBABLY WILL there aare more than a few here that dont think a DIY’er should be allowed to have an opinion in the first place.

Today I recieved a private message from board management telling me that a complaint was lodged asking to review all of my posts. They found nothing wrong, but for me, this is the last straw in a long process. The bias is clear, the pro’s would prefer to keep their monopoly on ability to express a cohesive opinion on anything, and that the contributions of DIY’ers, be they knowledgable or not, are not needed or wanted whether or not that inquiry was directly addressed to them.I’ve often been the first to respond to some threads, because I log in several times a day and at many times, questions have sat for hours or even days, with no input from anyone.I’ve always felt that if it was possible to answer some of these, it meant a posative experience for others. Unfortunately such is not the opinion of some of the pro’s here .

I’m done fighting bias. I’m seriously considering giving up on ever becoming an electrologist because I dont want to be associated with people who behave like that.I definitely am not wanting to continue to post somehwere my opinions are not respected, or wanted. I suspect I know from what the complaint originates, but it doesnt matter at this point. Just know that there are some things that the professionals here dont want you to know at all or see discussed period. Some of my recent discussions have crossed into some ares that they would prefer the average consumer isnt aware of.
I’m hurt. I’m angry. And I’m giving up. I’m also likely at this point to finish my face, sell my machine and never want to be associated with any of the pro’s here ever again . I dont associate with people who go around you and attempt to usurp you in the background in real life, and I dont do it onthe internet either.Such people arent worth putting effort to either help, nor the negative energy to evenbe angry at.They just arent worth it.

If there were a way to mass delete every post I ever made here, I would do so because I dont want anyone to associate my opinions with those of this board inthe future. We dont seem to have that ability on the software here. I’ll have to delete those I DO have the ability to only.

Seana

#2

Seana, You should be aware that i did not have any problems with Your contributions. I am actually convinced that a DIYer should be as concerned about her methodology as we professionals need to be. And that sharing of know how is better than keeping it secret - the latter because i have profited a lot from all others here who also share their knowledge.

I always read Your posts as “early on the way to becoming an electrologist” and that’s something i would not at all work against (my role here has been similar not too long ago - i came here as a victim of overtreatment by a pro). But even if You did not want to become an electrologist - asking and learning is ALWAYS better than blindly doing something and possibly harming Yourself, because You did not know well enough what You were doing.

BTW: electrologists are nothing special. Just normal people having the same profession. Sometimes even in competition. Neither worse nor better than in any other profession. So You’re wise not to depend Your decision on a negative experience with some or a few (i really do not know) people here.

(And please understand that i am too often simply too tired from a hard working day in order to be able to reply as i should.)

#3

Beate,
I’ve told you this privately and I’ll state it again here. I greatly value your replies to my questions. I wholeheartedly agree with the "dont fry yourself because you are an idiot and didnt have any access to opinions or methods information " thought pattern. You are one of those few people I’ve felt comfortable with asking technical questions.

I dont really get to just “drop electrology” because I have a few people who have come to depend on me. Most of these people, could not afford it any other way, and they suffer from gender dysphoria that relates to their hair removal. Chances are pretty good I’m going to end up still studying and asking questions of you and a few others here privately.
But I’ve gotten flak more than once for answering questions of consumers here publicly, or discussing machine settings with other DIY’ers. More than once I’ve recieved feedback stating my opinions are of no value and unwanted. I put my heart and soul into some of those responses and it genuinely hurts to have them dismissed or called harmful. And I’m not doing that anymore.
For some they would prefer to protect their profits. They would prefer every DIY’er fail, and in so doing prove the only way to remove hair is to go see them , and never question anything so as to make treatment easier. I think this thinking is contrary to consumer well being, and I’ve made no bones about it.But as a human being there is only so many times I can or will put myself on the line, spend hours making a well thought out post, only to have someone run behind my back and complain about it being invalid or harmful with management , or others pro’s here.

For the moment I’m around, and reading. I am continuing to learn. But I’m not publicly posting. Those questions that sit for days unanswered with genuine questions of concern from other consumers, will remain unanswered, at least by me. I’ve just reached the end of my rope , and refuse to make myself the target of a vocal few who cant or wont even state their objections publicly or even privately to myself. I’ve gone to extreme lengths to be diplomatic with others here even when I feel they are just plain wrong. I’ve been bitten for it, more than once, but never ever directly or addressed to me wit the exception of Michael, who I often disagree with yet respect more than most .I’m a big believer in that if you have a problem with someone, you first take it to them and try and work it out.Unfortunately there are some, who believe they are better than anyone else and such steps arent necessary.

Seana

#4

Wow , Sorry to hear of what youve been through Seana! I have found your posts generous and Ive been greatful for your expressions. I hate when we lose really good folks for such reasons . I recall Mantaray and he left this forum too and he was such a smart DIYer always willing to help. :frowning: This forum needs all the helpful input it can get as I am sure many of the pros feel overwhelemed at always answering the same questions over and voer again! AS well other than LA girl there is almost no one to talk to on the laser side of this forum !

It would be only fair to know who made this request and exactly why.
Any chance you would consider sharing an email or some other way to contact you off board should you leave entirely? I would be sad to see you go!

#5

I’ve been reading here for several years Danika. Although I only started posting earlier this year, I have too much invested in electrology to leave forever and there are people who depend on me learning more. There are some people I’ve mentioned I learned too much from, and value too much to leave completely. So while I am not going to be posting to public threads, I am always a private message away.
I’m just not responding to consumer questions, or even DIY threads. I take too much flak when I do.

Seana

#6

I am honestly surprised and shocked to read this.

Recently, I’ve been checking into HairTell and glancing over threads but not really reading very much and I haven’t noticed anything other than the usual ticking along of the same questions.

I don’t feel we are that dissimilar - I also didn’t fit into the pro category but had enough experience and knowledge to be able to answer most of the questions from or give advice to, confused or worried clients. Half the time the only reason I posted was because someone would start a thread and all the pros would be too busy to make comments, or miss the threads and after a few days of no one answering I’d think ‘I can help, so I should’. I see you as doing pretty much the same thing and it’s part of the reason I don’t check in so much; because I know someone else is taking care of things. In fact, kudos to you that you actually put a disclaimer out there - I never did.

I know we have had a difference of opinion but most of what is on this forum is exactly that. I’m so surprised because I have been vocal in my criticism of the way electrolysis is practised, especially in my country. I’ve been critical of prevailing ideas and methods and so much more. I would have thought if anyone was going to be on the receiving end, it would be me. I don’t have time for ‘half arsed’ treatment and when I read that that is what a client is getting, I don’t hesitate to suggest they move on.

Personally, I think there are few electrologists who agree enough on whatever topic to present a cohesive opinion on it.

I don’t know what bought this about but it’s sad and unnecessary and not how I thought we did things around here. My only guess is that it may be to do with your 'DIY’ing but you’re not the first to do it and talk about it :confused:

#7

My dear Seana,

Those who are afraid of their competitors are precisely those who are less competent. Some colleagues may see you as a threat to their business, but to me personally, I find your enthusiasm simply enviable.

As you undoubtedly know, I do not speak English (although thanks to Hairtell, I advanced in my reading). Write each post cost me twice as long as another user because I depend on Google translator.

Do not let anyone change your way of being. Consumers need you, and this profession desperately needs brave, generous, and active people like you.

#8

I am not sure how this came about, I always found your posts informative and thoughtful.I think you are making a mistake thinking your posts are not wanted here or respected. I think you share a lot of great information and it would be a shame if you stop posting because a few disagree. I am sure the majority of people reading your posts, like myself, are grateful for your input.

#9

I’m joining the bandwagon to say that I have read most of your posts and they are nothing but helpful, informative and kind. You have not crossed any boundaries and you shouldn’t be bullied into thinking so.

This is the internet for crying out loud. No one has more reason to say what they want just because they are a “top poster” or are deeming themselves as “pros”. That is far from professional in my opinion.

Keep doing, sharing, and coming here to help those of us that need it and value your efforts into answering so many posts filled with tons of questions that are often overlooked by the “pros”.

#10

Seana,

I have sent an email to Andrea asking her what has caused this to happen.

In the past, I have received private messages telling me to cool it, that I was giving out too much detail about parameters. I was also told that people were sick of me posting so much. I was told that people wonder if I even work because I was always answering questions on Hairtell.

I started contributing here in 2003 because I was afraid that James was getting overwhelmed and would leave. If he gave up, then I felt I would lose the only channel I had for great electrolysis information. Selfish, I know, but that’s the truth!

#11

First, I want to thank Dee, Michael, Jossie, Stoppit, and the huge number of people who messaged me on this thread and nearly twice the number who messaged me privately to say my contributions are appreciated. It DID make a difference and I will probably be weeks answering them all! A girl defintely likes to know what she does is appreciated.

That said, I am an extremely prolific poster. I tend to reply to posts as I see them come up, and I log in many more times a day than do many of the pro’s here. There are many times ( read daily and especially on the weekends) that I come and find a relatively simple question of say, growth phases or hyperpigmentation, that has sat for hours or even days, and not one person has replied. In a lot of cases these same questions have been answered 500 times or more on this board. Which is why I think some of them go ignored, the pro’s would literally have to make “templates” to answer them so often or wear their typing fingers to the bone. To me, I think it improves the experience of the consumer here if they get an answer, any answer, within a small time frame. Or we see the same poster posting the same question to multiple threads and no one knows really where to reply to it. But in so answering these questions, it gives the appearance that I am the only one posting to the board, or that I’m hijacking it. And there have been complaints about this, both to the board management, and to certain of the high profile professionals here by other pro’s. It’s a relatively small number of the pro’s who complained, but, they have point! I’m a DIY’er. I DO study hard and practise more and more but I cannot hold a candle to someone who has been practising electrolysis for many years, has gone to formal education classes and invested thousands of dollars in the knowledge of the electrolysis process that is in their head. Hell I stillstruggle ( very much so) with finding appropriate treatment settings with my machine for various hair sizes and skin types. I have no business answering some of the questions that I do. But I do try and help out,and I do give an attempt t it when I see things get zero reply, because the pro’s are busy, well, doing electrolysis!
I took some of these complaints yesterday, that I recieved from multiple sources, VERY VERY personally. Because in the end I just try hard to be a good an useful person. To not be just the “information sponge” but to actually give something back to hairtell. And it hurts to be told that someone complains or feels put off enough to complain, when you were trying to help.

I DO NOT get an option in not continuing to learn electrolysis here. There are too many here who help me and who have gone out of their way to do so. I want to especially thank Dee, Michael James, Josefa and Beate for the help and advice they have given me as I continue to learn. These people are the true hero’s of hairtell, they give uncompromisingly of their time and knowledge and encouragement. But they are overwhelmed. On a given weekend for example, a question may be posted and not see an answer for days.
It’s not right however, that I should post as much as I do. It’s been suggested to me by Michael that I “save up” for when it’s REALLY important. Dee to has told me that at times she has had her hand smacked for answering too much, or giving away too much information. When you post as much as I do, it’s an inevitability that on one day on one post, you might come off as less than amicable, or that you seem to be telling someone with much more experience how to do something that they have been doing for years. In short, odds are that someone, somewhere, is going to get pissed off with you and complain. For whatever reason, or maybe just because they misread something and took offense to it. If I have done this to one of the professionals here, then I apologize. It really WAS unintentional and I was probably just trying to be my usual helpful self.
It’s also possible that someone here see’s me as their competition. I want to reiterate, that I AM NOT PRACTISING PROFESSIONALLY. I do have 4-5 people who I help out with their hair removal beside myself. Every one of them is low income , transgender, and situate right here in Ottawa. Not one of them would go to see a professional, because they simply cannot afford it. Many live on social assistance or disabiliity.To my knowledge there is only ONE electrologist on this board who is local to me, and she has many more years of experience than I do, practises in a professional salon with a microscope and in no way to my knowledge sees me as “competition” .In fct, if anything she’s a friend. So if anyone here is threatened by my presence, dont be.

However I do have something to ask.If there is one person here who is offended by something I’ve written, or somehow feels threatened by my presence, message me. Take the direct route. Please dont message Michael or Andrea and complain to them because I’m likely to take this very personally, and be greatly offended by it. In all liklihood it was a misunderstanding. Michael would be the first to tell you here that despite the fact we’ve disagreed on a couple occasions, that the direct route works with me. I am not going to go irate on you, I will listen to what you have to say.But if it looks like I’m the cause of trouble , honestly, talk to me.I’m extremely approachable. And if you are feeling offended by something I said then consider, that I probably didnt mean it the way you took it, because I dont ever deliberately set out to hurt or offend anyone, most especially those who have several times the experience that I do!
I have a feeling I know from where the complaints originated. It doesnt matter who it was I’mnot the vindictive type. To that professional after reviewing my recent posts, I think it possible I may have come accross as saying their experience was invalid, or that they were wrong or their method was wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth.I respect your opinion as much as any pro here.I do however try to adjust my methods based on the knowledge and advice of others here. I was trying to get your input on this, not offend you.

For my part, I’m going to be quiet. For the most part, I’m going to as much as possible competely refrain from responding to consumer questions. That means that some stuff ( a lot of stuff) will recieve no reply whatsoever from anyone It will be difficult because I have a big mouth, but I am making every effort to not put myself on the line by answering everything I see… I’m doing this to reduce my posting frequency, and because frankly I dont feel as comfortable as I did. I’m not disappearing completely, but I’ve no desire to make any professional here so uncomfortable or irked that they feel the need to complain about me, several times over a month or so to multiple people… It’s very apparent that some are threatened by frequent posters , or feel that their turf is stepped on. If that means dont be a frequent poster, then so be it.

Seana

Seana

#12

Well said from the heart, Seana.

I like what you put in your signature and I’m glad that the post , ‘I’m Gone… Adios.’ ended this way. We value everyone here and never want your freedom to speak to be disrespected. I do think some people, Hairtell users and pro’s, were offering negative feedback about the frequency of your posts and that is easily corrected. Most of what you added was accurate and you know that Michael, James, Dee, Jossie or Beate will be on here if we see something that you said needing a fine tuning. You said you are okay with that and that’s important for me to hear because I don’t want to hurt your feelings. You are trying very hard and your intentions are very good, indeed!

For my part, I will try harder to answer more posts as soon as I can. Yes, I am busy, so I may not see a post until late evening or early morning. Thanks for trying to help us here and for understanding some of the things I explained to you in the PM I sent last night.

My kids asked me what I want for Christmas. My answer? Peace and Quiet and I really mean that.

Hugs to you,

Dee

#13

I apologize for being Jamesy come lately to this discussion, but as I have attempted to point out, I am actually too busy to make this board my one and only activity.

It is a shame that I was not here earlier, as I would have loved to have said sooner that I appreciate SeanaTG’s contribution to the board, and those who have a problem would do better to be helpful, in the same spirit SeanaTG has been here.

Since any 3 electrolysis professionals will usually have 5 opinions on any one subject, to say that Seana’s contributions are misguided would be highly debatable at least, and a misunderstanding at other times.

There is not a single person who has ever made any notable contribution on this forum who has not had their “Dean Martin Roast Day(s)” Take it as proof that you have arrived.

With those who are in the know being so busy actually making the world safe for the hairy, we need all the help we can get in spreading information and seeing to it that posted questions don’t go unanswered.

You think some people want you to stop talking? Some people want me to stop talking, so much so, they discuss how to make it happen, or at least discredit anything I do say, regardless of merit. I guess I should have told them, the best way to shut me up is to make sure that I am booked solid, in addition to having tons of distractions in my personal life, and voila, that dork is silenced. (well, at least the volume turned down)

From the bottom of my heart, I extend my best wishes, and support. I also implore you to continue your volunteer service, if you have it in your heart to do so. If you don’t, I understand that as well.

Personally, I am ready to walk away myself. What’s the use of making people pies if they keep smashing them into your face?

#14

Dont you dare.Hands down you were one of th primary people who convinced me it was possible ( even for an old gal like me) to learn this trade.

Seana