Pictured above is me when i scrunch my chin slightly. That spot is constantly red and takes on this weird bumpy appearance with pits especially when moving the face muscles like shown in the pic. My face was never like this before. My last treatment was back in July of 2018 ( So 8 months ago ). I’m assuming this is scarring as it looks really bad between the discoloration and pitting. I feel like crying. It seems to be getting worse, too. Can anyone provide any insight on this and what my options might be?
Could we see a picture without you scrunching up your chin?
When I tighten the muscles in my chin, it looks the same way … same bumps, dents, indentations and creases. I would like to see a photo of your chin in a relaxed state. On then can the issue be properly addressed.
Of course. The first pic pic is more neutral faced, no makeup. The second pic is with foundation on. As you can see in the second pic one side of the chin is a bit worse than the other.
And thank you for replying.
When i get home later today I will upload more non-makeup neutral-faced pics if that will help. Sorry about the first one being slightly blurru
I see something on your chin, of course, but I would like to see pictures of your chin before you had electrolysis.
How many hours have you had on your chin? Do you have any pictures of your chin as it was healing? Can you describe your healing - scabbing, oozing, anything?
What did your electrologist say when you talked to her about your concerns?
Probably about 60 hours but it’s hard to gauge. Never took healing pics…the healing process was “normal” from what i understand, minimal scabbing however there was redness for a long time (a week) each time. Now it’s constantly red.
She promised to not scar me in the beginning as i brought it up to her going in. When I showed her what I showed you guys she sort of implied it was probably there all along…but no. This weird indent in my chin simply wasn’t. So I think maybe she was kind of deflecting but who is to say
I was able to replicate this redness and skin dimpling in the mirror just now.
In the later pictures it does appear you have some pockmarks. Were those present prior to electrolysis?
They absolutely were not.
For reference here is a no-makeup pic i just took just my lips pressed together. No scrunching.
I can see what you are talking about. But I think the problem I have is that your description of the treatment doesnt add up to the results we are seeing. I’d like if you could fill in some of the blanks and holes in that information.
From When until when did you have electroysis , and if possible how frequent were visits and duration of visits.You mention that the results were good, no scabbing and redness that lasted about a week in general. Was there any other skin reaction at all during electrolysis? No seeping yellow fluid, white spots on the skin ? Were the hairs releasing easily or did you feel plucking?
60 hours is a massive amount of time to spend on the chin alone, could you tell me approximately what was the hair density like that lead to electrolysis? Was it just a few chin hairs or extensive hormonal growth? Did the number of hairs dwindle down over the period of electrolysis or did they all just seem to be coming back?
How long since your last electrolysis treatment and when did you first note the indentations starting to occur? Approximately how long from beginning electrolysis did you start to notice the indentations? ( I think I know the answer to this question but I’m waiting on you to confirm it)
Based on my experience, 60 hours for the chin is excessive. In 6 months I achieved 95% (approximate) permanent clearance of beard hair on a female chin. The treatment area covered approximately 50 square centimeters and the hair density was over 50 hairs per square centimeter. TTT (Total Treatment Time) was approximately 12 hours (the chin is still being treated to clean up remaining hairs). The work was scattered on each treatment to prevent overlap injury. I used flash thermolysis and insulated probes. The skin remains free of any permanent mark or blemish. So, what you have reported does not sound normal. Can you provide more details about what your hair growth was like when you started electrolysis, the length and frequency of your treatments and the condition of your skin following each treatment?
Excessive, unless you consider 100% regrowth due to undertreatment. Just a guess.
Hi everyone thanks for replies. I’ll try to address the things you listed.
-other than scabbing and being red, no real skin reaction. Definitely never had yellow fluid or white spots.
-the hairs did not really release easily. Some glided out but most had a tug behind it. Not a painful tug like if i were to rip a hair out, but it wasn’t always a “glide” either (9/10 there was a tug).
-it wasn’t just a few hairs, my beard was COARSE from hormonal growth. I definitely have less hair than when i started, but there is still a lot more there I just am worrier about proceeding now. (The hairs have orange roots so electro is my only option)
-my last treatment was about 8 months ago, and i first noticed the indentations about 3 months after stopping. (So 5 months ago i noticed them and they seem to have gotten more prevelant)
-my treatments were 2 hours a week. One hour for jaw/sides of face and one hour for beard/mustache area done in 2 seperate one-hour sessions.
Thank you all so much hopefully this insight can help
Ok that’s pretty consistent with what I am seeing.
The problem with hairs where you feel plucking, is that they plain do not die.They are undertreated ( or else the insertiosn arent accurate enough) and this results in the hair regrowing and being treated ( undertreated) again. And again.
After 9-10 months of this repeated undertreatment each successive failed eepilation builds up wound collagen ( scar tissue) in the undertreated follicle, and after 9-10 months of this, the wound collagen builds up in the follicle and pulls inward while at the same time, the surrounding skin is “puffed up” from inflamation. This results in a pit, the inner follicle is pulled inward and the skin around it is inflamed.
Unfortunately, this is a permanent issue ( scarring) but there are some things you should know about that:
1 the skin continues it’s healing process for up to 18 months post treatment. So the skin isnt done healing yet. Generally the skin willl improve over this period, undertreatment scarring or not.
2 There are some procedures that can help reduce the appearance of pitting. They include ( abut are not limited to) fractal laser treatments and microneedling. Each of these “kick start” the healing process and improve skin quality.
I’d also like to mention if you were plucking at all prior to electrolysis, then this would also have contributed to the issue so it may not be just from the electrologists treatment. In fact, it could have caused this more than the undertreatment has.
So, yes, you are correct, this is evidence of scarring however the skin is not done healing yet.Give it time, and consider undergoing microneedling or fractal laser. I would also reommend viewing “The Healing Skin” and “Chin Dents and Scars” videos on Michael Bono’s youtube channel, those video s are located here and have a lot of informtion on the healing process that I havent included here.
Hope this helps!
And I was right, repeated undertreatment!
Thanks. Would you suggest microneedling or laser? Or should I just go see a dermatologist and ask them?
I would just do the microneedling or fractal laser. .A dermatologist could always give you a better medical opinion having been through medical school, but I don’t think it worth it honestly.
Strongly agree with Seana.
It’s unfortunate you were scarred in the first place, but it is likely you can minimise the appearance of the scarring with microneedling and laser. I would tend towards seeing a dermatologist for these procedures if a clinic exists in your area, but it will be considerably more expensive. Otherwise, a normal clinic will be sufficient.
I live in LA, so there’s a lot of demand for those sorts of procedures here. You’d want to either look for a cosmetic dermatologist or a plastic surgeon. Either will be able to advise you. I’m a trans woman with some pitting along her right upper lip from electrolysis overtreatment – the opposite of your situation, but the end result looks somewhat similar. I’ve been having microneedling sessions done with a fair amount of improvement.
*** Please note that I am not a doctor. ***
Microneedling is relatively inexpensive, and as the process doesn’t deliver energy into the tissue, it is virtually risk-free. You’re going to want to see a doctor to have this done. Only MDs (and I think medical aestheticians) can go deep enough (about 2 mm) to affect scar tissue. A typical beauty spa can only go about 0.25 mm, if I recall – enough to tone the skin nicely, but not enough to address deep scars. Expect three to six sessions. I’m paying $350 per session, but these are LA prices. Some places isolate PRP by centrifuging your blood, and smear it across the microneedling wounds to promote healing. My dermatologist cautions that this may result in additional collagen growth if you’re still getting electrolysis. Be warned. There are also new devices that combine microneedling with RF energy (Infini, Intensif, Fractora), and sometimes these are marketed as “lasers”. I’ve heard of amazing results from these, but I’ve also heard horror stories, again from my dermatologist. Expect mild redness and some peeling, similar to a sunburn, that lasts about a week. They’ll likely provide you with some topical anesthetic, and the pain is about as severe as scrubbing your face with sandpaper – no problem if you’ve done electrolysis!
Fractional laser therapy is actually several different things. The term “Fraxel” (often misheard as “fractal” – sorry Seana) is a brand name, and can refer to one of several types of lasers. Another less common brand is Sciton. Like electrolysis, the specific type of laser is far less important that the skill of the operator. Typically, a doctor will carry only one brand because they are expensive to purchase. Your provider will likely talk about one of two types: ablative and non-ablative.
Ablative can be thought of as the laser drilling tiny channels into your skin, similar to microneedling but with laser energy. There will also be some heat involved, which will kickstart collagen production and hopefully fill in the dents. The downtime involves about a week of looking like you were burned in a grease fire, although I’m told it’s not painful. You’ll likely need to smear an ointment like Aquaphor on your skin to keep it hydrated. There will also be several months of redness that gradually diminishes. Common ablative lasers are the Fraxel re:pair and the Sciton Profractional. If cost is an issue, you don’t have to do your full face. You can simply spot-treat an area, although the redness will be more obvious if isolated to a particular spot.
Non-ablative lasers don’t “drill” channels, but instead heat the underlying dermis without penetrating the epidermis. The results are more subtle, and non-ablative treatments are typically done in a batch of three to six sessions, spaced about six weeks apart. I’ve been told by different doctors that non-ablative lasers cannot get the results that ablative lasers can, and by other doctors that the two ultimately result in the same end-result. I don’t know. I do know that the downtime for non-ablative is quick, a day or so of mild redness. (I’ve had it done on my cheeks and temples.) A common non-ablative laser is the Fraxel re:pair.
Other specialty lasers are the Sciton HALO, which combines a non-ablative and ablative laser, and the Fraxel Dual, which combines a non-ablative laser with another type that addresses pigment problems.
I suspect that your doctor might recommend subcision, where they release the scar tissue that’s tethering the skin down to the deeper layers by severing it with a hypodermic needle. I’ve had this done for some indented acne scars on my cheeks. Not painful at all, reasonably effective. Some slight bruising that heals nicely. Your doctor may follow this up with a small bit of filler. Some fillers can assist in building collagen, but most just plump the area up. These are temporary (a couple of years at best) but are visually very effective, and often the only solution that ends up working in the end.
Good luck! Know that you aren’t alone!
I should add that you really want to do your research if you’re looking for laser work. You can absolutely devastate someone’s skin with these devices.
Here’s someone’s experience with Sciton Profractional resurfacing to deal with some severe electrolysis damage. Not exactly what you have, but this will give you an idea of what to expect if you do fractional ablative laser.
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