I need some Feedback,PLEASE!!!!!

Special Issues Transgender / Transsexual
#21

Don’t misunderstand here. In school I was taught that a “normal man” had 100 hairs per square inch and that covered about 25 square inches of skin in the area of the face and neck. I have only met 2 people who fit this description in my practice. One can extrapolate that this “text book case” would only have 2,500 hairs per clearance to remove. This makes it possible for someone like me to do a full clearance in about 5 hours on one day if the client has the time, and is not oversensitive to treatment.

Most of the numbers you hear flying around this site for work rates are from people doing thermolysis. Three hundred hairs per hour in BLEND is a fast pace. That is 5 hairs per minute, and the statistical limit for Traditional Blend Treatment is 8 hairs per minute (480 per hour). It seems to me that many electrologists who practice blend are working at 3 hairs per minute, or 180 hairs per hour.

To get some perspective, the statistical limit of Thermolysis is 30 - 40 hairs per minute, or 1,800 - 2,400 hairs per hour. It seems that many electrolysis practitioners are working at 5 hairs per minute, or 300 per hour.

Galvanic would remove 1 to 2 hairs per minute as long as the treatment time for the hair did not exceed one minute (it happens) and so it is hard to say how much work could be done with Galvanic. Therefore, we can only assume that one hair per minute would be good, and anything higher is a great rate. Make it a multiple needle/probe electrolysis unit, and you still have to take time to insert, and reinsert probes that fall out before treatment is accomplished. It may take a minute or two to insert the 8 to 32 probes. You then must wait for treatment to take effect, and then remove the probes, and the hairs. Maybe in 5 - 10 minutes you have done a curtain and are ready to set up the next rack. Keep in mind, the more probes, the longer it takes to set up a curtain. 8 probes per curtain, 6 times in an hour is 48 hairs per hour, 16 probes per curtain, 6 times in an hour would be 96 hairs per hour, and 32 probes 6 times would be 192 hairs per hour.

Now as far as your situation, you need to understand that you need to get the full clearance, and then maintain it from there. You can either keep doing hours to keep the skin visually clear the whole time, like most of my in town clients choose to do, or you can just make sure to get full clearances as quickly as possible on the areas you are working on when they come in strong, as my distance clients do.

One clearance won’t have much effect on the next phase of hair growth, although with a Before Picture, you should see a difference, as small as it would be. For a true idea of the effectiveness of your treatment, you would have to take a picture of your before, then the clearance, and then wait a year and take another picture of the area one year later, the same month you achieved full clearance.

When it comes to the numbers, you can plainly see why people with a choice choose Thermolysis for large projects. My average client, who has way more than 100 hairs per inch for sure, and more than 25 square inches of skin covered in hair, gets first clearance in 20 to 30 hours on a full face job, depending on how they schedule their appointments.

#22

Hi James,

I understand what you are saying. That still seems very fast to first clearance! Like I said, my electrologist says it takes them 40-50 hours of flash to get to first clearance on most beards. Incidentally, they are known for being fast. I can’t go in for weekly sessions to keep up with the growth becuase they are in another state. I don’t think you answered though…Is it normal to be able to grow so much hair back so fast? I am not kidding, I can grow a full beard within 3 weeks of being completely clear. That would indicate to me that perhaps a lot of hairs are being plucked, not killed. I can a lot of times feel them pulling the hair out as in a “plucking” sensation.

Lana:)

PS. I don’t know if you are allowed to say here, but, how much do you charge per hour?

#23

Because of the phase thing, it is perfectly normal for you to see what you think is a full beard 3 to 6 weeks after a clearance. You can’t see the effectiveness of your hair removal until a year to the month after you have it done. This is one of the reasons we point out that the faster you get to first clearance, the fewer hours you will need to have done. Once you get full clearance, no matter how many hours that takes, you will have an easier time keeping it bare.

The perfect situation would be getting fully clear in a week or less. After that, all hairs could be treated as they come in, if you are close to your practitioner. If you are not close, you do the best you can, when you can.

As for rates, no one minds anyone quoting rates here, but I don’t discuss that kind of thing on this forum. Anyone who wants to see me professionally, must contact me off the forum the same as any other client.

#24

First clearance on my face today,after about 18-20 hours work. Will begin neck next week and my electrologists says this wont take her long at all. Maybe 3 hours or a little more.I keep on having my upper lip,cheeks,and chin cleaned up upon my visits and then we move on to tackle other areas. So excited to be clear of facial hair on my face and hope that it will get easier,less greuling and time consuming to keep my face hair free!!!

#25

Paradisebirds,
Are you still going to the place in my state of Texas?

-Matt

P.S. I have some questions about it if you are.

#26

Hi Lana:

It is easy to get discouraged and I did many times. Early on it seems like you are getting nowhere when you get a lot of regrowth. But since there are so many hairs to begin with, even though some won’t be regrowing, others are coming into their phase. If I count all the hours I have done times the number of hairs per hour it gets scary.

But eventually you reach a breakthrough point, whether it be at 50 hours or whatever, when the regrowths get sparser and sparser. I am at that point now and currently at 72 hours. Some people need 100 hours total, some 150 and a lot need 200 hours total. Look at TinaMarie and her total hours.
James says that part of that is because she could not come in regularly.

I have a suggestion, but I am not sure how practical it is for you. Why not find a local practioner that you can see regularly. If you can do that, then your upfront clearance rate will be higher and in the long run it will take less total hours.

I understand how hard it is whe you feel you are spinning your wheels and not making progress. You will get there in time, but this is the hard part, the mental part and being patient.

If you feel someone is plucking then you should be able to discuss that with them. Occasionally sometimes there is tugging due to the root bulb though.

Alicia

#27

“Why not find a local practioner that you can see regularly. If you can do that, then your upfront clearance rate will be higher and in the long run it will take less total hours.”

Would this really work? Say if I went to E2000 here in Texas (who, by the way, told me it would take about 30 hours for first clearance of chest area - 30hrs!) and in between had a regular electrolysis work on the area? Or, if James was in my area, we did some work (Wink Wink?

#28

First clearance is the major goal. Until you get that, you can’t maintain it.

So it is best if you get first clearance the fastest way you can. Then, who ever you have locally has a better chance of keeping up with it, because they can work on taking out the hairs as they come in, instead of trying to catch up to the phase.

What a place like E2000 does best is get to first clearance quickly. That is why people are willing to travel. If they have someone near them who is good, but not fast, it may help them to get to a point where there local person could maintain their clearance without them needing to travel back to the out of town place again.

#29

So I could have two or three clearances there, then finish elsewhere? Seems like E2000 may cost me some money; however, I am planning on having a large area cleared.

#30

I wish E2000 would upgrade their equipment so as to lessen post treatment irritation, but they are solid otherwise.

In the long run, spending up front for first clearance as fast as possible pays off in fewer hours total, and one gets finished in fewer months as well.

#31

I am still going to E2000. I am about ready to schedule my third full clearing. I don’t really want to give a detailed account of my experiene with them yet only because I am still so far from being done. I can only say that thusfar, my experience with the them has been good. Apparantly, all has been within the realm of what is considered “normal” so far. I do have extreme swelling for a few days, but, otherwise my skin rebounds quickly. The actual electrology is not painful, but, the lidocaine injections are. In addition, I have found all of the staff to be very kind and professional.

I can’t really comment with more specifics as to total time to clearance or the end condition of my skin because I am simply not there yet.

Lana

#32

Hi Lana:

Thanks for the info on E-2000. It is nice to hear that they treat you so well there.

I have never had lidocaine injections, but I think they would help reduce the pain a lot. It is too bad the injection itself hurts. I have had some doozies at the dentist though. I take pain killers and use emla, but my neck was really a sensitive area for me and it hurt a lot still.

The swelling is probably to be expected with a full clearing on a virgin face. I have seen a photo from someone
who went to E-2000 which showed their swelling and it was huge. It was her full face that was swollen like a big red berry.

I know that it takes a lot of patience to get to a point where we can be happy with our progress. I am personally getting there now, but there were times when I doubted my sanity for doing all of this. It seemed like it would never end and the hairs still grew back. I know we were making progress, but it was a mind thing I had to get through.

Good luck to you. I know you will be happy with the results some day.

Alicia

#33

Alicia,
I just began work on my neck and throat area yesterday. The pain was erratic but after the treatment I had what looked like bright red lumps,like bee stings or welts all over my neck.Today it has cleared greatly but neck feels very tender,even my glands! What has your experience been like with the throat? Yesterday was a bad day for me with my treatment,everything felt extremely painful,even with my emla application. Upper lip killed,cheeks and chin I just squirmed through. My electrologist said that I have to keep in mind how traumatized my skin is from 3 hour sessions each week and that next week she is not treating my face at all. She will just finish clearing the remainder of my neck and give my face a break. We have made such great progress and I love not seeing that dark shadow and stubble’s all over my face! The only thing is she is going away on vacation for 3 weeks the beginning of June and I am worried Im going to begin looking like a caveman again by the time she gets back. But she tells me my skin will greatly benifit from some down time and that 3 weeks should not set me back terribly and she should be able to clear the areas very quickly and much easier then the first time. Lastly does electrology break down collagen in the face? Thats a concern for me because my face is slim and anguliar to begin and I dont want it looking hollow or aging quicker due to collagen being depleted?

#34

Hi Bscotch:

Do you have a name like Brian or something?

I too found the neck very painful. Some days I am way more sensitive to pain than others also. I take some tylenol 3’s as well as the emla. I have told her to stop treating the neck and move to another area if it became intolerable. You can always go back to that area another day.

I agree that 3 hours every week is very hard on the face.
I think if she treats your neck again within a week other than minor treatment it will feel much worse.
I was doing every week and switched back to every 2 weeks.

I too have had red bumps on my neck and soreness, but that should be a lot better within a week.I really think you have to be cautious about going back at that area within a week since it seems to take longer to heal.

Three weeks should do wonders for your skin and give you some idea of your hair growth. I think the rest will do you good.

I really don’t know about the collagen but I am sure James could answer that. I haven’t noticed any problems with my face.

Alicia

#35

Thanks Alicia,
My name is Chris. After next weeks 3 hour visit my face and neck will be clear. We just have a small area of untouched hair for next week under chin and jawline. Then the next week she said she will clear my face thoroughly and go away for three weeks,How often are you seeing your electrologists and for how long? Do u think after my first clearance of face and neck I will be able to cut back to maybe an hour or hour and a half every couple weeks? Or should I still see her every week for 3 hours? I know you are much further along then I so it would probably vary but I was just wondering what has been working for you?

#36

Hi Chris:

I am going for 2 hours every 2 weeks now. I was going for 2 hours every week for a while. I have had 72 hours of electrolysis after 9 laser sessions.

I think that eventually you may want to try to cut it back to 2 hours a week or 3 hours every second week. Then eventually to 2 hours every couple of weeks. James may have other opinions on whether that will work, but I feel 3 hours a week is a bit much, especially if your face has not had a good chance to heal.

I think a lot depends on your ability to heal and the progress you are making. Maybe cutting back to 2 hours a week could be your next step.

Right now I am letting it grow for 7 days till my next appointment. My wife says that at one time my cheeks wer black at the end of the day after shaving in the morning.
Now after a week, you have to look very close to see anything.

Alicia

#37

Hi Alicia,
Thats excellant. You are much further along in the process then I. I have never done laser hair removal as I heard the results really vary and I have some greys in my beard. I have had about 30 hours of treatment and my regrowth thus far has been pretty minimal,no major thick beard growth coming back in as of yet,but I imagine that will probably happen after a couple of weeks of no treatments. So Im just hoping when I go back after 3 weeks it is nothing like my first clearing. Major Swelling that morphed my face and several days of down time. Well I guess as the saying goes No Pain,No Gain!How often are you shaving your face now and do you find the shadow and density of the hair to be as thick? How heavy and dense was your beard to begin? Thanks for all your suggestions and helpful info. Take Care
Chris

#38

Soon enough there will not be enough hair in that area to do what he is doing now.

#39

Hi Chris:

My beard was pretty dense and visible to begin with. In fact I had a pretty good moustache, much better than most. At the end of the day my cheeks would be black and the bristles pretty evident. Even with shaving there would be a beard shadow.

Now I have no shadow. I probably only have to shave every 3-4 days, and that is because I can’t stand the feel of any bristles coming through on my face.

I am not a “he” however. In my mind,heart and soul I am a woman. Hormonally I am a woman. Physically my outer appearance is changing to match my inner self. Electrolysis is just part of that. Very soon my name change will become official. Some day soon enough all my ID’s will be changed to an F also.

Alicia

#40

Hi Alicia,
I dont think I ever referred to you as “he” and as I am a gay male I fully understand and relate to identify with yourself truly as who you are and living your life as happily and richly as we all deserve too. I respect everyone and those even more who live there lives true to themselves.

So from the sounds of things hopefully another month or two will find me dealing with allot less of a ominous shadow on my face. Are you naturally dark haired or light? Also is there anyway to tell if electrolysis is leaving scars on my skin. My chin seems to definately have some dimply and indentations,but Im not sure if some of them are actaully knick scars from when I was shaving and even the pores being a little more visable now that there is no longer thick stubble and shadow on my chin. It seems to be primaraly on my chin area that I have seen some marks? Perhaps I also have not really given my skin enough time to heal too and these marks might go away. Well as always I appreciate all your feedback and hope you had a great weekend!