How to say "no?"

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

I had a very nice email from a fellow who, after having done a lot of laser work, would prefer to get going with electrolysis. I thought that some of you might find my response interesting.

Of course, it’s fine and dandy to “finish off with electrolysis” … but not for somebody like me that wants to “dig in and get 'er DONE!” I’m only saying I’m not the guy for this job, as my email will elucidate. Yes, indeed, electrolysis is now a good option for this kid … however (read on):

Dear Person,

Thanks for your kind email. Indeed, your experience is happening more and more: a person does laser for an extended period of time and eventually discovers it hasn’t done enough.

It takes a full TWO-YEARS for all the previously “lasered” hairs to come back. And, this “maintenance crap,” of which your tech is speaking, simply keeps you going in for laser pretty much forever. Technically, laser causes hairs to remain in “telogen stage” for a stunningly long time. Problem is, a hair in telogen is NOT affected at all by laser … so, eventually, all subsequent laser treatments are pointless. Sadly, few laser techs understand these hair-growth dynamics and just keep insisting, “You only need one or two more treatments.” This is bullshit!

But now, there is a significant problem (that I’m facing all the time). What do I do with a “recently lasered person?” I know that my one clearance with electrolysis is not going to produce the results I guarantee. I know there are tons of “stunned” laser hairs just waiting to rematerialize and screw-up my whole protocol.

With men, who have never been touched by laser, I guarantee 98% or better PERMANENT hair removal after three clearances. But now what? I know that I have at least a 2-year window of returning laser-hairs. How do I compensate for that?

I can’t!

In reality, having laser treatments has already defeated me, and I haven’t even started! Well, the way I work anyway: three “big ones” and DONE! I’m not “into” lifetime electrolysis; not my “thang.”

So, after this “laser experience,” you are now facing at a LOT of short electrolysis treatments to kill-off the lasered hairs as they slowly return with grinding and annoying regularity.

Sadly, I’m not the person for this appallingly long-drawn-out process. Indeed, with most guys in your situation, I have decided to not even start with them; so basically, I’m saying “no.”

See, the instant I start working on a previously lasered guy, I get blamed for all the “regrowth” … and yet, the mess was caused by laser.

I think the best solution for you now is to find someone geographically close to you that REALLY knows how to kill hairs. Then, just be prepared for 2 to 4 years of repeated treatments. (Of course, you could also wait 2-years, do nothing, and then go to one of us that do the “big bang” modus operandi).

I hope this helped … I know this is not what you wanted to hear,

My Best,
Mike

#2

It’s funny, you have the peculiarity to synthesize in one word a lengthy and complicated process, however, has developed a lesson from a simple adverb of negation.

This thread should be saved and printed by all professionals and all those potential customers who decide to try Electrolysis having failed totally or partially with laser.

For years I’ve watched this same phenomenon too, and like us, at least, Christine O’Connell and S.Tehfe (from Australia) claim to have experienced the same.

This is not to start a war with the laser , it is highlighting a fact that can not be ignored for the sake of professionals and clients. It’s ridiculous and unfair that electrologists be blamed for something beyond their control. It is also unfair to the customers if they abandon the only option they have to be hairfree by an error in the interpretation of actual results.

It’s not about “How to say “no”?” it’s "why sometimes you have to say “no!”.

Excellent post, Michael, one of the best, in my opinion.

#3

Educating the client never ends.

I have experienced the same thing with a woman’s underarms and bikini line. My God, I have been cleaning up hairs for two years plus. The diode laser did a fantastic job, but the hairs just keep coming. There are not many, but they appear to just come out of nowhere here and there. I know I am “killing” them good, but I can depend on her emailing me every 2-3 months for a 20 - 30 minute cleanup. Very frustrating, indeed.

#4

Oy Vey, Dee,

Question: Why do you say, “the diode laser did a fantastic job, but the hairs just keep coming?” That’s almost like saying, “The operation was a success … but the patient died!” I did a little math.

Using your figures in your post, (averages) over the last two years, you have done between 4 - 5 hours on these recalcitrant underarms to “keep ahead of the returning laser hairs.” 2-years? Mama mia, pizzeria!

Five hours is my total average treatment time (TTT) for fully completed underarms (9-months overall time). After the required 3-clearances (sometimes 4-clearances if they have been recently shaving), yes, there will be a couple ±10-minute “pick-up sessions” but after that there will be ZERO hairs “coming back” … everlastingly. Nearly all of us do this.

I don’t think that 2-years of “picking up stray ‘diode laser hairs’,” qualifies as “fantastic.” But then, that’s just me … the old irascible Grelber of Hairtell. Overall, I think you are being too kind. You know, “soft on laser?” And, of course, that’s why I love you kiddo.

Still, I don’t intend to be singing “Kumbayah” with my local laser-zappers any time soon … until they select clients that will have superior results with their “magic lantern” … and stop referring clients to me that I’m now supposed to “clean up” for them. I don’t like cleaning other people’s messes.

It would also be nice if they would stop telling patients, “electrolysis only works on TINY areas of light blond facial hairs. Electrolysis does not work and is too slow …” as they laugh at me (to my face). The bitches!

#5

Okay … Hairtell has “gas” again this morning … gotta type the whole thing in.

#6

Oy Very, Dee

Question: Why do you say, “the diode laser did a fantastic job, but the hairs just keep coming?” That’s almost like saying, “The operation was a success … but the patient died!” I did a little math.

Using the figures in your post, (averages) over the last two years, you have done between 2 - 5 hours on these recalcitrant underarms to “keep ahead of the returning laser hairs.” 2-years? Mama mia, pizzeria!

Five hours is my total average treatment time (TTT) for fully completed underarms (9-months elapsed time, ET). After the required 3-clearances (sometimes 4-clearances, if they have been recently shaving), yes, there will be a couple ±10-minute “pick-up sessions” but after that there will be zero hairs “coming back” … everlastingly. Nearly all of us electrozapperologists do this.

I don’t think that 2-years of “picking up stray ‘diode laser hairs’,” qualifies as “fantastic.” But then, that’s just me … the old irascible Grelber of Hairtell. Overall, I think you are being too kind. You know, “soft of laser?” And, of course, that’s why I love you kiddo; and you do know that.

Still, I don’t intend to be singing “Kumbayah” with my local laser-zappers any time soon … until they select clients that will have superior results with their “magic lantern” … and stop referring their failed clients to me that I’m supposed to clean-up for them. I don’t like cleaning other people’s messes.

It would also be nice if they would stop telling patients, "electrolysis only works on tiny areas of facial hair. Electrolysis is too SLOW … " as they laugh at me (to my face). The bitches!

#7

This is annoying … can’t even type the thing in.

#8

Damned annoying Hairtell. Sometimes it works and then it’s messed up again. Need to get this fixed.

#9

But it is predictable and can be communicated in advance. So if the client accepts that it would be ok for me.

#10

Ditto to Michael and Beate.

#11

Well, at the moment, I’m limited to a word here and there (you LUCKY people you) … so, here’s my “belated” comment today:

BOO!

(Did I scare you?)

#12

Hi Dee Dee,

I had 6-paragraph post (that won’t work on Hiartell). But basically I was going to ask this.

Question: Why do you say, “the diode laser did a fantastic job, but the hairs just keep coming [back for two years so far]”

That’s almost like saying, “The operation was a success, but the patient died!”

#13

Yes, You did :slight_smile:

You seem to be using a strange input device. A recent Mac? (If yes, You might use an older one like me … I’m writing this on a Powerbook G4)

#14

Ja, ich bin “den” Hexe von Hairtell!

Yes, imac (G5) here … still Jossie was also unable to post my thing. It’s all good.