How many minutes per session? (before/after pics)

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
1

Hi - I last posted about a questionable experience I had with an electrologist after experiencing unusual irritation. Since then, I found a rec from this site and have been having weekly/biweekly sessions that have helped in reduction. I have undergone 5 sessions, one hour each time at $88 thus far and I can’t help but feel like the electrologist is “milking” the time, and I think having a hard time seeing the blonde hairs (she is kinda older and alluded to having glaucoma). Most times when I leave, I come home and see at least 2 or 3 hairs that should have been treated. I don’t want to make assumptions but I can’t help but think that the time is being spread out because of her difficulty seeing and I’m paying for it, literally. Another part of me doesn’t know how to measure expectations so I wouldn’t know how to judge.

Looking at the pics below, do you think one hour is a reasonable amount of time to clear the area below? You are looking at one side of the chin, so imagine it on both sides. (removal of the coarse hairs that are longer, not the peach fuzz).

Before: <note the ingrown hairs and irritation>

After:

2

Yes, that does seem slow, although overall accuracy is more important than speed. Can you describe the circumstances when the first photo was taken. How long was it since your last treatment? and had you cut the hairs between treatments?

3

Did you explicitly request these fine blonde hairs be removed? If not, you should. I would think even a slow electrologist should have easily removed those few dark hairs in less than 30 minutes.

4

Woooo… I was just going to say the same thing.

5

If the work was being done in Galvanic, only, it would not be slow, it could possibly be fast. If the work was being done in manual blend, it would be average, especially if many blonde hairs were removed.

If the area was treated in flash thermolysis, and no blonde hairs were involved, then this would be turtle slow.

I echo the sentiment, that precision work is more important than speed.

6

I have seen few days ago, an underarm by Michael done in manual Blend in 40 minutes. I estimate that there were approximately 600 to 700 hairs. This is just what I would have taken to do with Flash. I wonder why people believe that Blend you can not go very fast.

(Sorry Michael, I had to say this)

7

The first photo was taken approx 1 week after the first treatment (I believe). The second was approx 1 week after the 4th treatment. The coloring is a little lighter in the photo than what I’m seeing on my chin right now.

I just counted about 50 hairs to remove on my chin (at any given time). I usually have the same amount every week, and it takes approx 4 days to get to full, visible growth. Over the course of the treatment, I have noticed a significant reduction of the texture of the hair and the color but not the frequency of growth. That said, I agree quality over quantity but I notice that the majority of the time spent in sessions is looking for hairs and lining the needle up to a pore. I don’t mean to nitpick but I’ve already invested nearly $500 and I am probably half done.

8

What tipe of blend does Michael use? It cant be the old method because there you need to leave the probe in the follicle for 5 and more seconds…
My electrologist was allso suprised from the speed od Michael with blend and she did not believe that it can be done with blend - by the way she is extremly fast doing 20 hairs per minute… Hopefully in a few months the hair will go away.

9

This is a difficult call, because undoubtedly you could get this cleared much more efficiently, but you could also enconuter a far worse experience. Perhaps posting a photo, immediately prior to your next session and immediately after, may give more clues. Also posting your location, may allow others to give you some more options in your area.

10

Well, I don’t “believe it either!”

I hoping “Lefty” stays on board because I don’t want to become the (only) resident curmudgeon (said in jest). I do feel sorry for Hairtell if you end up with two old grumpy irascible dudes. But then, this is the internet!

To answer your direct question: I use a totally manual “old fashioned” blend. It’s a new unit — well two years old — with a microprocessor, but it has an analog read-out (which I prefer). I refuse to talk about “how many hairs per minute,” because only my grumpy nature gets stimulated with such nonsense. I think “hairs per minute” is, well, silly. Instead I will talk about “how many hours to compete the job.”

I decided to post a full treatment (like Jossie does) to show what can be accomplished using “old, non high-tech, out of fashion, worn out” technology! My speed in removing hairs? It’s not important! Only the final count of hours is the real test. (I will say, using my eyes to determine the appropriate “dose,” will give me an epilation time of between 2 and 8 seconds, in most cases.) My machine does not determine the correct “exposure to the currents,” — I do!

Set to music: “ … and the beat goes on … “

11

I’m use to dealing with grumpy old men. I love grumpy old men. I understand grumpy old men, but grumpy old men don’t understand me.

We (including me) have said thousands of times in thousands of ways that ANY epilator and the person using the epilator, will deliver permanent hair removal via galvanic, blend or thermolysis as long as they are skilled. SKILL! SKILL! SKILL! SKILL!

Laser enters the hair scene in 1997. Though it is not the total solution for every hair problem, it offers competition for electrolysis because it delivers permanent hair reduction speedily. The always thriving, striving human nature side of just moving forward to improve technology kicks in and some of our great electrolysis companies make more advanced epilators with some bells and whistles that are great for the electrologist and great for the client. These high tech epilators remove hair, too, and the electrologist has just as much control over this epilator, much the same as they had over their ultra ClareBlend analog epilator. We know how to adjust timing and intensity on a high tech epilator! We still have to think and control it - it doesn’t control us! The speed at which hair can be removed is very impressive and very deadly. If insertions are accurate, the lower 2/3 of the folllicle is disabled - permanently. Sensation to the client is much better and there is minimal skin reaction so people don’t have to walk around looking like they have a severe case of adult acne for two weeks. I rarely need to advise my clients to use numbing creams. The ones who need it, need it for the middle upper lip.

If you used an Apilus Platinum for one year exclusively, you would understand what I am saying. I have used a ClareBlend, Gentronics, Silhouet Tone VMC and tried out a few others when I was in school. This high tech stuff is special. If the electrolysis profession, as a whole, does not keep an open mind toward new developments, it will always look grumpy, stale and stuck in the past.

Speed is important. Insertions per minute? or hours needed to completion? both matter because they give people a hopeful guideline that something good is happening to correct their problem. Insertions per hour show me some patterns that develop which give me helpful benchmarks about where we are in the course of treatment.

It’s fun to watch the numbers along with the hours and minutes that are invested into the removal of hair on a woman’s face and neck. One of my very severe cases, who is looking absolutely fabulous as we get closer to month 15, has required 95 hours and 14 minutes / 57,000 insertions have been accomplished. She’s almost home. She had a beard equivalent to LeBron James. She’s not wearing turtle necks anymore. The high tech Apilus Platinum did this for her. No anesthetics and each appointment averages three hours in length. First appointments were 4-5 hours in length.

Old epilator? New high tech epilator? They both work, but in my summation, my clients like high tech best.

People want the hair off fast, they don’t want it to hurt too much and they want minimal down time for healing. If an electrologist can’t deliver this, they will find one who can. It is my common sense belief that the electrolysis profession must continue to grow and modernize while all things around it continue to grow and modernize. There is nothing wrong with moving on to a better engineered product and getting re-trained so we can offer a better service for the sake of the consumer who depends on those innovations.

12

Nice post Dee.

I reached some of my goals with my electrologist using her ‘basic tech’. I’m sure my sister could do. But we cannot afford it. We need someone who along with the “kill rate”, has speed and can do a bulk of work at once because she doesn’t have the time for weekly appointments.

13

Thanks, stoppit. I seem to repeat this information more than I repeat information about hair growth cycles.

14

I appreciate your thoughtfulness Dee, and I know that you sincerely believe what you have said. I suppose for me, there is going to have to be some side-by-side study — a “contest” if you will. I’d be willing: I always did like the tale of Paul Bunyan competing with the sawmill with his one ax.

I’m still interested in getting treatment totals from the group. You are clearly willing to share and uplift us all. I like to focus on underarm removal because this area is not hormonal and is usually a predictable size on most women. I have completed so many of these cases that I could just give a “flat fee.”

Funnily enough, I did most of the women in the Santa Barbara Republican Women’s club — well, that’s not all that many because it’s pretty Liberal in this town.

So, I pose the question to the group: How many hours do you take to complete an underarms case. (I am preparing a full photographic record of a new patient so that — at last — I can show actual clinical data instead of just “talk.” I’m taking my “orders” from Jossie — who I now adore. Seriously, is there anyone better?

Again, thanks for your sincerity. Maybe (if you invite me) I can come and be exposed to the technology you have chosen for your patients. In my locale, I will be given no instruction unless I buy the machine first!

15

I’m not into contests, Michael. It’s like war to me. I hate war. I do my thing, in my little space and I am truthful about what occurs there. I receive and keep all the e-mails that my clients send me about their healing outcome, 48 hours or more after a treatment (I ask that they give me feedback). I can share some with the group if requested.

As for underarms, I do less and less these days because I highly recommend laser hair reduction for my clients who are good candidates for laser. I have three business cards for laser specialists that I hand out to my clients. I tell them to get consults and if they get treated and still have some lighter, finer hair left, please think of me for the final step to remove the rest of hair. I am not territorial about my business. I desire the best for my clients. That’s all.

I have been going hard at this for twelve years. You have many years of hard work behind you, so we are hardly equals when it comes to # of years of experience. I am not some hot shot. I’ve seen a scab or two from my own hands. James experienced a smoking follicle or two when I worked on his beard. It had a bacon smell you know, hmmmm. James, I am not calling you a pig or anything, so calm down. He certainly knows I am not without flaw, but he also admits that his hairs are ‘The Final Exam’! Knowing all that, you have a standing invitation to visit me anytime.

Lastly, NO! There is no one better than Jossie. I adore her, too. Don’t get a swelled head, sweet Jossie, okay?!

Love to all and to all, a goodnight. Be good always and in all ways! You can lead a horse to drinking water, but… oh you know the rest.

16

I have no clue which machine, how old etc but I do know she was using short-wave method…

17

…and if you are getting great care, carry on…

18

"You can lead a horse to drinking water, but … " Well, I’m just not sure which one of us is the horse?

I still think some kind of comparison with modalities and techniques would be helpful. It’s in my nature. I think the experimentation Jossie did was pretty conclusive about the efficacy of the Laurier needle as far as crust formation — and, this was pretty predictable. Clearly, anybody with a brain could figure out that an insulated needle will yield no crusts. Maybe that’s not the point?

I have been reading Hairtell for some time, and direct statements and innuendo are continually made against any other modality except, well, the unit “de jure.” Statements made in California by leading folks are just plain devastating and pointed directly at other manufacturers and schools. You do not know what’s going on in this State.

I never like the “modality wars” either, but it does continue on and on. If significant statements are being made, then I think somebody should “step up to the plate” and prove it. Talk is cheap and there sure is a lot of it.

My modality preference? You would not believe it. When my patients moved away to the Bay Area, I recommended they see “Jeanie” — who uses flash. If they moved to the L.A. area, I sent them to Yamaguchi who uses multiple-needle. I sent them to electrologists, not machines. And, that is my point.

I know from direct experience that your machine is brilliant! But, it’s not the only unit that works brilliantly — I also know this. You cannot find, anywhere, any statement I have ever made against “your” modality. Can you say this? For example, if someone posts a photo of a crust, the first statement I read is: “Well, if you had ‘my method’ or ‘my needle’ that would not have happened.” Maybe that’s true!

Most of us, well all of us, go from a “specific” and then assume “the general.” That’s not the scientific method, but it IS what we all do. Anyhoooo, I am still ready to be part of any real “study.” I’m also happy to be the “horse.” And, I love you Dee!

My own preference would be to go “head to head” with lasers. Luckily one of my best friends, a surgeon, has the very latest laser and I’m going to “have a go” with him. He loves this too! Competition is good, if it’s an honest test.

The electrology profession is a sinking ship — like the Titanic — somehow we should all be pulling in the same direction (sorry about the mixed metaphor), but it’s not in our nature. I have heard “the modality wars” unendingly and it will never stop, I suppose.

19

I like the metaphor of the Titanic, but this boat is still floating. You who are an expert in the design of boats know that while someone is rowing and pumping water, the boat will remain on the surface.

And this is what we are all doing here.

While there is only one person is not suitable for laser hair removal, our “Titanic” will remain unsinkable. And if the catastrophe is inevitable, I (like many of us) will continue playing until the end, as did the musicians of the Titanic.

Our profession does not disappear as long as there are people who need us and ship captains as Andrea James.