HELP ME pwease!


#1

Hi all this is my first post. Some basic background on me first, im a 17 year old male student, im into acting and modeling as well as bodybuilding. About a year ago, I purchased a testesterone enhancing supplement called ZMA. Just one month after taking it, my body… broke out with hair. All over, my back, my entire arms, my shoulders, my chest, my bum, my entire legs my entire stomach my ENTIRE body just grew all these long, coarse black hairs. I have light skin (although I do tan) and I seriously need to PERMENANTLY remove ALL this hair for modeling before it messes up my career. I personally dont have much money but I can work as much as I hav to to pay for this stuff, also hopefully my parents will help me out. I need this hair permantly removed ASAP.

Im very confused, I hear people calling laser treatment “hair reducing” and electrolysis as being permant, but word is that electrolysis takes much longer to do (since its one hair at a time). IS laser PERMENANT? I mean seriously has ANYONE here had PERMENANT results with laser? How many treatments are nesscery? Which would I be better off to get, electrolysis or laser? I dont understand much of this, but I seriously cant stand this disgusting hair any longer and I have only about 6 months to get rid of it or I could miss out on some serious opportunities career wise.

Im in Vancouver, Canada. I dunno if anyone has any refferals they can give me in this area??? I only wanna hafta go through this once, i want PERMENTANT otherwsie im going to go INSANE. Thanks all who read this and reply! :frowning:


#2

hmm… if its all over your body, laser will be costly…
to get it done properly, expect paying in the thousands.

otherwise, try finasteride maybe?
it prevents the release of specific type of testosterone called dihydrotestosterone (DHT) that you may not specifically need for your physique.
its primary purpose of DHT i think may be to cause hair growth, and genital growth in foetuses (not relevant to you).
im guessing that the androgen hormones youre dependant on are actual testosterone, and androsterone? (or whatever its called), and whatever others.
anyways, i knew a very active and well built PERSONAL TRAINER on it, so it may be for you!
look it up, and talk to your doctor.
if you end up taking it ask for PROSCAR (5mg finasteride) instead of PROPECIA (1mg finasteride).
PROSCAR apparently costs about the same, and you can save a lot of money if you buy a pill splitter and quarter them.
by taking this medication, you will never go bald, and excess body hair will thin or maybe even cease entirely.

and finally, try depilatories!
just dont leave them on too long! (and never use them under your arms or any place overly sensitive)
shaving can make rashes, and as a model, i dont think you want that.

anyways, good luck! hope this helped some.
sorry this is patchy, i wrote this VERY quickly!

[ October 19, 2002, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: hopeful ]


#3

Hey Dan,

I got some bad news, i have been trying to get my body hair permanently removed for the past twenty years and i still look like a filthy animal. I will be getting my 10th laser treatment soon on my back and other area,s mid november. Some area,s are getting thinned out and some area,s have no change. One must have patience and have to work plenty of overtime. I spent $19,000 so far.


#4

thx to those who replied. As for Hopeful, first off, dipilatories or whatever, ive tried several of those, the results lasted only a day or two (I was outraged took them back) as well, they all gave me acne like rashes where I had tested them on, and the rashes wouldnt go away for about 2 weeks time… as for that Proscar stuff, the testerone that it inhibits is also a good part to the achievement of erections, but I cant sacrifice one part of my body for another, it’d be pointless to do. As for the laser… I dont know… if its not absolutely permenant, then its absolutely pointless to waste my money on. if alls it does is make the hair thinner and harder to see, that doesnt work for me, I cant have ANY hair at all, no matter how thin and lighter it becomes. :angry: gosh this is so stressful, If I can have every square inch of my skin lasered from below my neck, id be fine, if I hafta sell everyt single thing I own just to afford it ill do it, but I need to know if it’ll be permnant for me. How can i do this? Should I go talk to a dermatologist?

Thanx all.


#5

I always wondered what the effects would be of some of these bodybuilding supplements on body hair. If they in fact were the cause of the new hair growth then discontinuing them should reverse the effect. However, since you’re only 17 this may be the normal hair growth you would have had anyways since this is around the age where body hair starts to grow.

Laser is probably the best option for you at this point. Electrolysis will take years. Electrolysis can be used to get any stubborn hairs that the laser missed.

Even before all the hair is removed, which takes several treatments, you will find shaving to be easier, quicker and provide more satisfying results.

Also, you must have realistic expectations. There is NO hair removal method that is quick, immediate, and permanent. Laser comes the closest because you can get rid of a lot of hair in the shortest amount of time compared to other methods. Finishing up with electrolysis combines the advantages of most methods.

I recommend you start with a consultation with a dermatologist who specializes in hair removal.

Good luck.

RJC2001


#6

RJC2001 is right…you are looking for something that doesn’t exist yet. Actually, I think that ALL of us want to find a solution like you have described <sigh> …maybe someday. But in the meantime, there are some really good alternatives like laser and electrolysis.


#7

Hi DDD–

If you have light skin and dark hair, you may see a permanent reduction in the size and color of hairs, but very few people are able to get complete hair removal from laser alone.

Electrolysis on your entire body will be VERY time-consuming and expensive.

As RJC said, the hair growth may just be a simple response to post-puberty hormones, but the bodybuilding supplement may be making it a little worse. It’s a trade-off, I guess. Most models, dancers, porn stars etc. I know have to use several kinds of hair removal to get everything. Find a good pro in your area who can assess the situation. If you want it all gone permanently, you’re going to have to lay out some moolah. Consider it a career investment like my friends who do that kind of work!


#8

Yes, even porn stars have hair removal needs, I guess it wouldn’t be fair to leave them out LOL! Andrea, if you don’t mind my saying so, sometimes you crack me the hell up!


#9

Glad I can crack ya up, JGirl! :grin:

Believe it or not, I get a lot of great info from porn stars and strippers-- hair removal is a big part of their job, so they take it very seriously. many of them spend at least an hour a day dealing with hair removal!


#10

Andrea,

thank you for this place…

i just found it last friday, and it has answered so many questions…and now i know i am not alone in my quest…

after 2 years of lasering, i think i might have a few things to add once in a while

take care


#11

One of our early clients in our Virginia Beach Sona Laser Center had 19 treatments on his back and had as much hair as when he started. Laser hair removal is a science with a little art added in, but mostly science. It should work for most people trying to remove non-grey or blond terminal hair and you should get very good clearance after 5 treatments spaced the right time apart based on the area of the body being treated.

Sona Laser Centers does many thousands of procedures each year and has developed procedures and parameters to give our clients both safe and effective treatments.

First, not all lasers are created equal. We use what we have found to be the most powerful, fastest and most effective laser on the market (Cynosure’s Apogee 9300, or their YAG for type 4 and 5 skin types). Coupled with proprietary treatment parameters, the “Sona Concept” we have learned over thousands of procedures and based on the science behind how lasers remove hair, we treat each area of the body at the window of time the hair cycles through new growth phases. Each area of the body has different time frames that the hair goes through the anagin phase (growth phase) which is the only time a hair can be permanantly disabled. Each client needs to have a specific treatment calendar based on the specific body areas being treated. We have found that our clients are very satisfied with their hair removal results after 5 treatments using this “Sona Concept”.

When you start messing with the body’s natural scheme of things you can cause previously vellus (light thin) hair to morph into terminal hair (just like what happens when you go through puberty or when a woman goes through menopause). Just a note to say that even if a laser removed all your new hair, you may be stimulating constant new hair growth and need added treatments that a normal client would not go through. A little fatherly advice from someone with a college age son- You need to think hard and fast when you mess with mother nature (God’s patterns).

Hairfacts.com has an excellent primer for how to select the right laser hair removal provider for you. The main issue we have found is not that a doctor is doing the procedure (any doc can buy a laser and begin treating with 4 hours of training, or worse yet hand the operatig manual to a nurse and say, “learn this”). But that a doctor is adequately supervising a well trained nurse using the right laser and using the right treatment parameters and time between treatments.


#12

dfried, welcome, and thanks for the kind words! We’ve been very lucky to have a great mix of informed consumers and helpful practitioners and manufacturers sharing information. Together, we can all make a difference!


#13

TRN, it’s great to see you here. I’m always glad to see reputable practitioners and companies helping consumers with answers. I look forward to your participation.

As you note, hair removal remains a bit mysterious, but the advantage of a large chain like yours is the huge amount of data you can gather to help optimize treatment parameters.

I do have a couple of questions I have been meaning to ask:

  1. I have heard several consumers say they were told to expect 93% reduction from a course of Sona treatments. Can you tell me on what that number is based?

  2. Can you share any information on your Meladine product? In theory it seems to be a good idea, but I’d be very interested in hearing more about its use and effectiveness in clinical conditions.


#14

How common is it for laser treatments to turn vellus hair into terminal hair? That is a scary thought.

RJC2001


#15

Not much data as usual on this possible side effect.

There’s a published report that low-fluence laser is capable of causing single hairs to turn to double hairs:

Hairfacts: Ye, 1999 (pili bigemini)

There is anecdotal evidence that plucking and other forms of epilation may cause trauma that indices hair growth, but this has not been observed in the published literature.


#16

RJC2001 and Andrea,
I’m a qualified electrologist working in Spain, and I haven’t decided yet which laser to invest my money in, but I would like to point out that I have three clients who have come to me for electrolysis after finding that laser treatment has stimulated new terminal hair growth. It seems what has happened is that the laser practitioner has tried to treat a few terminal hairs on one small area, but other follicles in the surrounding area have been stimulated to produce thich black hair where previously it was just fine and blond. Two of my clients have had this happen in facial areas (particularly on the the chin and sides of face) and the third has a strip of growth right down the centre of the abdomen. Needless to say, they are all furious with the results of their laser treatment! I think they were all treated with the Candela Gentlelase, which is the most popular laser on the Spanish market, although I’m sure this could happen with other lasers too. I should also point out that all three have a history of hormonal imbalances and are taking or have taken the appropriate medicines to counter this problem. As these particular body areas are all greatly influenced by hormonal problems in terms of hair growth(chin, abdomen etc), do you think I am right in assuming that the people who are most vulnerable to this problem are those who have hormonal problems in the first place?

I actually mentioned this phenomenon to our local Candela salesman, who admitted he had heard of few cases, but that it was a minor problem and after a while this new growth just ‘disappears’ anyway. I was very skeptical about this, as in all my years of fighting against hair growth I have never seen terminal hairs just disappear of their own accord!!!

Would love to hear about other similar experiences and/or get some opinions on this. Thanks all
KTB


#17

Andrea,

Thanks for the welcome. Just so you know a little about Sona, we currently have open three company owned centers, three franchsie centers and one affiliate (pre franchise center in process of converting to franchise center). These are in Portland OR, St Louis, Minneapolis, Virginia Beach, Newport News, Richmond, and Charlotte. Additional centers will be opening beginning in early 2003 in Sacramento, Dallas, Las Vegas, Raleigh and Tampa. Hopefully with more to come threafter. We are targeting the top 100 markets in the US.

Regarding the % efficacy and support. As you know studies are all over the place on results. Two studies specifically used the 755nm alexandrite lasers (we use Cynosure 9300 and their YAG for types IV abd V). One “A structured treatment protocol improves results with laser hair removal” by Bruce Freedman and Robert Early on 200 patients (100 in a test group and 100 in a control group)Resulted in 78=-8% reduction in hair with 4 tx. Another, “Long-term evaluation of the Long-pulsed Alexandrite laser for removal of bikini hair at shortened tx intervals” by Jennifer Lloyd, DO and Mirko Mirkov, PHD was on a small study of only 11 patients with 4tx and the results were a median 86% reduction 1 year after their last tx.

We have not done a scientific study on Sona patients so our results tend to be anecdotal based on our managers experience with 1000’s of clients. With our patients, the hardest areas to get good results seem to be mens backs and womens chins.

For our Sona centers using our parameters our experience seems to be somewhat better than these studies. For dark hair a 90 to 95% hair reduction at the end of a treatment cycle seems to be reasonable expectation as an average. Our treatment cycle varies in duration based on anatomical area of the body but consists of 5 treatments and a 6th touchup. This can be affected fairly significantly by tans on backs shoulders, face, and neck especially and thus needing to either delay Tx or reduce power parameters, thereby reducing efficacy. We try to keep our staff and franchisee staff from promising total hair free results because that just isn’t possible for a portion of the population. However we do have some clients that achieve this result. As with any medical procedure, you can do everything perfect and still get unusual results based on who know what- hormone changes, etc.

Meladine is distributed by Creative Technologies to laser hair removal offices around the country.
At the ASDS meeting in Chicago last week a presentation was made as per below.

Treatment of Blonde &
Non-Pigmented Facial Hair:
USE OF A MELANIN-CONTAINING SOLUTION
PRIOR TO LASER-ASSISTED HAIR REMOVAL
NOVEMBER 3, 2002
AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR DERMATOLOGIC SURGERY
ELIZABETH L. TANZI, MD & TINA S. ALSTER, MD
WASHINGTON INSTITUTE OF DERMATOLOGIC LASER SURGERY

They would probably give you the results of their study directly.

Our center’s results have been good with the 2 week protocol advance meladine useage prior to tx for blond and vellus hair, but we have found a longer 4 week advance useage of Meladine is needed for courser grey and white hair. Not sure if this is due to the diameter of the hair or due to the depth of the hair follacle or both? In our experience, this is the only option for treating grey, blond, white and vellus hair with lasers. Results are not up to the dark hair results but still good.

I hope this answers your questions. Fell free to email me if you would like. I may not keep up very well with this board if I’m very busy.


#18

Thank you for the thorough response, TRN!

I’ll see if I can get a hold of the Tanzi/Alster information-- it sounds compelling.