just curious.
sounds like transgendered (particularly M->F pre-op xgender) clients have advanced the practice of professional electrolysis for the rest of us.
it seems to me that these clients have pushed the envelope of treatment. for example, weren’t the first clients to ask for genital hair removal pre-op xgenders?
were these the first group of (pre-op) males to have their facial hair worked on in recent history?
agree? disagree?
This is just my opinion, and I won’t be offended by those who disagree with me.
No to the question, “have transgendered clients advanced the practice of electrolysis?”
Here is why I believe this.
The statement, “it seems to me that these clients have pushed the envelope of treatment.” Having been in practice for over 25 years, I have seen clients who have “pushed the envelope” in many ways. Clients who have hours upon hours of treatment because of the amount of hair they have and the distance they must travel to get treatment. These clients were not transgender.
The next statement, “for example, weren’t the first clients to ask for genital hair removal pre-op xgenders?” No. They were not. Many female clients have had genital hair removal. I would say that they were the ones who opened the door for m-t-f transgender’s genital removal.
To the statement, “were these the first group of (pre-op) males to have their facial hair worked on in recent history?” Absolutely not. I have worked on many male clients who were not going through any transition - they were not even cross-dressing.
In the 1970’s there were many men who having electrology treatments because they had heavy black beards, and wanted to look “cleaner” than having a permanent black shadow gave. There were also men who had ingrown hair seeking treatment. I began practicing in 1980, and while there were a few transgender clients coming in, there were more non-transgendered males seeking treatment.
Hi Barbara,
I would have to agree with your analysis of the situation in general, although I would add that there are a lot of electrologists out there that were forced to learn to make much better insertions and control their use of energy while doing electrology on the faces of M2F transsexuals.
One of the things that occurs with the hormone replacement therapy is that the skin becomes finer pored, softer and more moist the longer that the client stays on HRT. Part of this is that the skin starts taking on the female texture and the other is that the client will start taking much better care of their skin in order to obtain the maximum in female appearance.
While the skin becomes softer, finer and more moist, the hairs which were hormonally stimulated in the first place, do not become significantly finer or shallower. Thus, we get to the classical, ultimate challange for the electrologist; thick, coarse, deep hairs in soft moist skin. The ultimate claim that the TS community can make claim for the advancement of electrology is that it has forced operators to refine their skills or lose market share.
That’s just my humble opinion.
Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Biological males and biological females have always sought out hair removal, even in the genital area.
Those who have created the greatest challenge for me, forcing me to become better and forcing me to purchase high end equipment and tools are:
African Americans, who fall into group 1 and 2, pushed the envelope for me and for most of the electrologists/students that I have met. In NYC, we see many TG clients, even students have treated them. I have not seen any of the TG clients present with any challenges, regarding treatment technique, specifically for them unless they fall into items 1, 2, or 3 as noted above.
I think transgendered clients, more than anyone, can take credit for promoting electrolysis on the net. In the face of multi-million ad campaigns from newer methods, I think it was the messageboards and personal websites that helped many people realise that electrolysis is still a great choice.
But I think you’re underestimating how bad androgenic hair growth can be for women, and how many women suffer from it.
Hi Arlene,
I agree totally with your analysis of the situation as these are the types of things that I am seeing as well on a day to day basis. However, I have had a few TS clients that tried laser with less than desireable results, especially on the face, and I am now having to work on thick, deep hairs in very moist, soft skin with high hair densities.
This does present the challange of how much to work any particular area without causing skin damage and requires that I be right on with my insertions and the amount of power I apply.
While no two clients are exactly alike, some groups do present different challanges as electrology is still the matter of getting good insertions and releasing the right amount of power to be both effective and safe.
If it was easy, everyone would be doing it!
Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
The best thing about MtoF’s is that when they are finished everyone is left to accept that electrolysis does in fact work, and if the practitioner who did the work was really good, that good work can be done so that one just looks like one never grew hair in the treated area.
The envelope gets pushed in demanding those results over so much skin, with so much hair, in such a short time frame, with appointments taking place as close together as possible.
On the whole, I would say that the TG Community has always been Doing A World Of Good marketing electrolysis
I will agree wholeheartedly that the transgendered community has promoted electrology on the internet in a way that could be described as “most significant”!
It was a trangendered client who got me hooked ON the internet! Please forgive my stereotyping of transgendered individuals, but I have found them a very intelligent and creative group of people.
Hi Arlene,
and I am now having to work on thick, deep hairs in very moist, soft skin with high hair densities.
Joanie <img src=“/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif” alt=“” />
Are you saying that those bad laser treatments caused this effect on the skin?
Please forgive my stereotyping of transgendered individuals, but I have found them a very intelligent and creative group of people.
Maybe all of the intelligent and creative TG’s are in Kansas!
I have interacted with so many M - F TG folk over the years and here, in NYC, they are just as varied as the general population in terms of intelligence and creativity.
Stereotyping is a tool used by those who want to exploit, those who desire to manipulate, those who want to feel superior, those who fear what they do not want to understand…
I understand why people are drawn to Naomi Tickle who writes books and gives seminars on how to determine the character of people by the shapes of their noses, the thickness of their lips, and so on.
As one who comes from a group that is stereotyped, that is targeted… Yuk. Stereotyping.
[quote]Hi Arlene,
and I am now having to work on thick, deep hairs in very moist, soft skin with high hair densities.
Joanie <img src=“/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif” alt=“” />
Are you saying that those bad laser treatments caused this effect on the skin? [/quote]
I am not saying that bad laser caused the effect on the skin, just that ineffective laser allowed hair to regrow in skin that had become finer, softer and having a higher moisture content as a result of both Hormone Replacement Therapy combined with improved skin care. Two entirely different problems. BTW… These individuals were lighter than optimum hair colors and most likely not the best candidates for laser to begin with.
Joanie
thanks.
One thing to remember is that MTF’s still need hundreds of hours of elecrolysis despite taking feminizing hormones and sometimes also having had their feminizing sugeries. Men will have lesser success and need more time for treatment with electrolysis.
MTF electrologists are amazing (mine charged me only $45 an hour, was extremely understanding having gone through the process herself, and was very spiritual) and are very compassionate due to their lifetime of having to deal with negative stereotypes.
The above is a stereotype (positive) too…but I have never met a “bad” transsexual person and can’t help holding that rosy view about them.
Electrology 2000 was also started by and for MTF people and has revolutionized electrolysis in my opinion.
As one who comes from a group that is stereotyped, that is targeted…
Noo Yawkers? <img src=“/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif” alt=“” />
Hi:
I would think that since very few men actually go for full clearance of their face, the TS individual does present a challenge to the electrologist.
The practitioner has to effectively remove the hair without either undertreating or overtreating, using settings which have to be adjusted to the individual.
Sometimes the electrologist has to use settings which they are not used to or do much more work in areas of the face
than they have had to previously.
It is also an area which is highly visible, so if the treatment is bad and leaves marks it is not very good
advertising. But if they do a good job, as james said there can be no better testimony to the effectiveness and skill of the electrologist.
Alicia
Hi Alicia,
Most of the hetero males that I have worked on have been in for things like a developing unibrow, hairy ears, thick back hair and a couple with very thick, dark, dense hair on other parts of the anatomy.
The biggest challenge that I have faced in full facial clearings on F2M’s has been with very coarse, deep hairs, with a high density in terms of follicles per square cm.
On some clients, I can clear away to my heart’s content and they are just fine. Others require that I only work every third hair or so to prevent over-treating the skin and causing pitting and scarring. One thing that is an absolute must for me is that the treated hairs slide easily and smoothly out with an intact bulb and inner root sheath.
As I try to keep the discomfort levels very low during upper lip work, I do use both Sterex insulated probes of the largest possible diameter possible or the ProTec Insulated Thermolysis probes, again, using the largest possible diameter possible.
The insulated probes (Sterex and ProTec ITH) both have the shortest uninsulated length of probes. This requires the use of a stereo microscope to get the best possible insertions and excellent lighting. I make certain that the power level is exactly what is needed to effect epilations as outlined above.
This has allowed me to be much more gentle in this. The biggest problem in treating the M2F comes from those who started HRT a while before starting electrology. The skin does become much softer, moist and much easier to damage as the process goes on. It also becomes much more uncomfortable on the upper lip.
Still though, I find that these people are some of my best clients in terms of sticking to their schedules and taking care to stick to their part of the process. I am very willing to cut the electrolysis only subset of this group a significan price break as they will ultimately give me a good deal of business, be very good to work with and generally are very studied in what the process consists of. They usually are proactive, in a friendly sort of way, about letting me know what they are feeling and allowing me to adjust my treatments to suit their comfort levels and still get the best work done.
I would have absolutely no qualms with having an entire client base of TG-TS. Most that I have worked on have been a real pleasure to work with. It gives me a good feeling to know that I am helping them with something that they need. I find that they give me a lot more passion about what I’m doing and I will go the extra mile for these people.
I think that the TG-TS community has done a lot more to promote electrology than any other single group of clients has done.
Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />