FROM THERMOLYSIS TO BLEND

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
1

Hi I have had 2 yrs of continuous thermolysis treatments and it was moving very slowly. I still had deeply rooted hair on my neck. I read a lot of things on blend and it was better for deeply rooted black, curly hair. I had my 3rd treatment today of blend and it is hard to tell yet how it is going. It is much slower than the flash but i do feel that it might have a better effect on the hard, coarse, curly deeply rooted hair.

I am still going to my thermolysis for my face and upper lip but I am only getting the blend on my neck because that is where most of the coarse hair remains. When I first went 3 weeks ago the electrolysis showed me the hairs she pulled and 70% on my neck were still curved after 2 years of continuous thermolysis. She said that those hairs were winning and that the thermolysis was tearing my neck up. I had horrible scabbing and bumps on my neck which i dont seem to have no where as bad with the blend. My thermolysis is probably the best there is. Her speed and accuracy I feel are untouchable, but the method I dont think was working good for my neck. So I opted to use both, One for the finer straight hairs which are now on my face and the other on my neck where the harsher white curly hairs are.

When I told my thermolysis what I was doing I think she got offended but I tried to explain why and she said sure i understand but i felt that she really still was offended which is understandable. She said it would be interesting to see how it progresses.

It is taking 2 hrs of the blend to get most of my neck done at this point and i would have my whole face and neck done in that time with the thermolysis and it would be a total clearing but within 2 days afterwards I would have a face full of hair again and I didnt feel that it should be that much after having gone over 225 straight hours and $15,000.00.

I dont know if I am making the right decision but I will see how it progresses. The blend electrolysis assures me that I will see a big difference with the blend and from the testimonies and other research I have done, I have made the right one.

My new lady kinda talks a lot which I think slows her up, but today I took my headphones and it stopped most of her conversating 60%.

The finer hairs she does much quicker which are closer up my neck near the jawline but the ones on my neck she leaves the probe in for a good 10 to 20 secs before she extracts it. She has the computer set to hi-blend and she also uses the foot pedal.

I just wish my thermolysis did the blend because I feel with her accuracy and speed I would be complete by now.

2

I have never seen you, and I don’t know your practitioners, but I believe that what you are discussing is a matter of skill and equipment.

I have cleared many a neck in MicroFlash and PicoFlash thermolysis, and they are done fast, and without scabbing, and the work progresses as easily as it does any place else. If the insertions are off, and the treatment energy is not well placed, one doesn’t get good hair removal. If one increases the treatment energy output to compensate for poor insertions, the scabbing and scarring and pitting become a real problem. Blend makes the insertion less important than it is in thermolysis, and since the build up of lye stays in the follicle after the treatment is over, there is much less dependence upon the practitioners skills than the unforgiving margin of error that is the case in thermolysis.

You have seen a perfect example of why we say here that practitioner skill is most important, and that equipment is the next thing in line on priorities.

If one learned all three types of electrolysis, one would be wonderful at galvanic and blend long before one could be good at thermolysis.

I would also say that better vision and lighting might have helped your Thermologist to do a better job. Is she offended? Probably. Most people get really territorial about such things. At the same time, she also saw your results, and knows what it is like being the person paying and waiting for a change to come.

The only thing I worry for you is that blend treatments take longer to happen per hair, and so you will take longer doing this in blend than you would if one could have good thermolysis treatment. As for the talking thing, since blend requires one to hold the probe steady for up to half a minute at a time, I assure you that talking is not slowing her down. At least I would not think that it would. Most blend treatments go, Spread skin, select hair, insert, wait ten seconds, Beep, retract probe, flip to forceps, remove hair, repeat. That’s a lot of time to chit chat in the empty spaces.

3

These types of electrologists put shame on the general professional art and skill proceedure called “ELECTROLYSIS”. No wonder this profession gets blasted in magazines and testimonials.

Your checkbook is in real trouble. Fifteen Thousand Dollars! Two hundred and twenty-five hours!!! My goodness you are patient and trusting.

A MODERN 21st century electrologist would never come close to this price or time. You should have finished and owed far less than this. Let me emphasize that I’m saying this without seeing you. I’m assuming that you don’t have 100 active hairs per square centimeter and that you are a genetic woman??? Regardless, just know that consumers would not need to choose this slower, perhaps less skillful pathway for removing hair if ALL electrologists would step out of the past and come into the future. The equipment made by some companies for any kind of hair removal job is much better and there are willing experts to help the electrologist that chooses to improve and bring it up to better.

We don’t like to offer this kind of feedback to other electrologists who are not pleasing their clients and they don’t always take the hint very well about seeking out better equipment, magnification and lighting and continuing education. That’s why you are on the loosing side as far as time and money goes, but be assured that you will eventually get permanent hair removal with blend or thermolysis, providing there is some skill involved.

Can you seek out more consultations where you live??

Dee

4

I have a question for MsWham. When you see the hairs that the electrologist removed, do they have a root sheath attached? Is there a black spot at the very root end of those hairs?

When you stated that your hairs are deeply rooted, and the hairs your electrologist is showing you are curved, my concern is that perhaps the insertions are not deep enough. I may be a “lone electrologist” in my opinion that: usually hairs that are removed and have a curve have been stretched and the deepest portion of the follicle did not get enough treatment energy. This would also explain hair regrowth from treated follicles. Imagine those ribbons that you pull through your thumb and scissors to curl up - that is similar to what is happening with the hair. The hair has been exposed to heat from the treatment energy, and then the pulling of the hair while the base of the hair is still anchored to the base of the follicle and VOILA! you have a hair that appears curved.

There ARE hairs that will always come out curved because of their original shape and coarseness - and I’m not talking about those hairs. Those hairs would be their own little ringlet if grown, and if that describes your hair, well then, nevermind. Just simply disregard this whole post.

5

Thank u for ur input but no I am not a genetic female. I am a transsexual and before I started I read as much as I could find on electrology and all that I have read is that it would take me from 200 to 700 hrs depending on the person. I have never been in the gay or transsexual community so I didnt have any assistance in this until the internet. What made me concerned at this point is I am still going too often and the hair is still hard and I have a lot of ingrowns where they become sore and my social life has been on hold for the whole 2 years because of the embarrasment of the bumps on my neck. I read in one article that the bumps were a good indication that the hairs were becoming weaker and couldnt push through the skin and that was a positive thing. I am going to post an article i read and it was very instrumental in my decision.

home > Electrolysis Guide > Treatment Methods

TREATMENT METHODS TOPICS
• Temporary Methods : The variety of methods to temporarily remove unwanted hair.
• Unproven Methods : The methods professed to be permanent, but are temporary.
• Electrolysis Methods : An overview of the methods of needle-based electrolysis.
• Laser Study : Study of hair regrowth using Nd:YAG laser method.
• Electrolysis Epilator : The electronic device used in needle electrolysis.
CLICK ON AN ITEM, ABOVE, TO GO TO THAT TOPIC

Electrolysis Methods - An Overview

All methods described here are based on techniques using needle type electrolysis. For information concerning the actual electrolysis devices used in practicing these methods, please see Electrolysis Epilators.

The three methods used in electrolysis are Galvanic, Thermolysis, and Blend. All three methods involve inserting a small needle into the hair follicle.

Galvanic Method

The galvanic method was the first method developed for removing superfluous hair. This method removes hair through chemical decomposition. Galvanic refers to galvanism or galvanic cells (a battery). As does a battery, the galvanic method uses direct current. It is long been understood that the application of direct electrical current to a solution of salt water produces a reaction that causes the salt and the water to break into their constituent parts. These parts quickly rearrange themselves to form an entirely new substance. This process is called electrolysis. The new substances that are formed are sodium hydroxide (lye), hydrogen gas, and chlorine gas. The process of electrolysis was first used for permanent hair removal in 1875 by Charles E. Michel, M.D.

It is the sodium hydroxide, or lye, which is the source of follicle destruction in the galvanic method. The galvanic method is basically a chemical process.

Here is the mechanism behind “true” electrolysis: With the galvanic method, the body salts combined with the moisture found in body tissue make a type of salt water solution. The moisture content of this salt water solution is at its greatest concentration deep within the follicle. When the electrolysis current is applied to be inserted needle, the newly manufactured lye causes a chemical decomposition of the hair growing cells to occur. Two electrodes are required for this process to take place. One electrode is actually the electrology needle, the other electrode touches the patient’s body in some location. This “patient electrode” is usually a metal wand held in the patient’s hand. This process is very slow and requires about two minutes to generate enough lye to spread through the follicle of a course, deeply rooted hair. This single needle galvanic method is no longer used because of this time constraint. However, modern electronic design allows the multiple needle galvanic method (12 to 16 hairs treated simultaneously) to work very effectively. The galvanic method kills about 80 percent of the hairs treated.

Thermolysis Method

The thermolysis method is not true electrolysis since no chemical action is involved. It does, however, provide for permanent hair removal. Thermolysis is often referred to as electrolysis. In this everyday usage, electrolysis refers to all types of permanent hair removal.

Thermolysis, also called shortwave method, high frequency method, or diathermy, destroys the hair follicle by heat or electrocoagulation. It is the most widely practiced method of permanent hair removal available today. Thermolysis was first put into practice in 1923, but did not become popular until the 1940s. All thermolysis equipment operates at a specific radio frequency approved by the FCC (Federal Communications Commission), since it is a type of radio device. With thermolysis treatment, high frequency radio energy is emitted (mostly) from the tip of the electrolysis needle, first inserted into the hair follicle. The high frequency energy agitates the molecules making up the hair growing cells. This agitation causes the cells to heat, ideally to the point of permanent tissue destruction. This destruction is referred to as electrocoagulation. A microwave oven is another example of radio waves heating organic tissue. The thermolysis method does not require the use of the second patient electrode.

Thermolysis is ideally suited for thin, shallowly rooted hairs. It is a straightforward approach, and requires a minimum of operator training. However, its usefulness greatly degrades with the larger, course and deeply rooted hairs that generally comprise the typical male beard. We find the incidence of treatment complications to be somewhat higher with thermolysis as compared to multiple needle galvanic or the blend (described next). Additionally, treatment complications greatly increase with the use of flash (high intensity, short duration) thermolysis. We feel the adverse result of pitted scarring to be greatest with flash thermolysis.

The flash method is intended for treating small follicles, but has been adopted for treatment of large follicles. The flash method dispenses a high intensity blast of high frequency energy within less than one second’s duration. When this intensity is proportionate to the size of small follicle, it is an acceptable method. But when this intensity is increased enough to treat larger follicles, serious permanent side effects may occur. This intense heat can cause pitted scarring. For details on how this side effect occurs, please see High Frequency Blowout. Thermolysis typically provides a 5 to 15 percent kill rate for follicles treated.

Blend Method

The blend method, also called dual action method, is the combination and simultaneous use of galvanic and thermolysis techniques. This combination method alleviates the shortcomings of each of the individual techniques, while bolstering their advantages. By doing so, blend electrolysis incorporates the high kill rate associated with the galvanic method along with the swiftness found in thermolysis. It is especially useful in treating the deep, course hair follicles that typically make up the beard. We have found no better approach than the use of blend electrology in the treatment of the male to female transsexual.

Basically, most of the blend’s capacity for destroying the hair growing cells is accomplished by way of chemical decomposition. That destruction, as indicated previously, is through galvanically produced lye. But unlike galvanic on its own, this combination current reduces the normal two-minute duration down to about 10 seconds. And just as important, the high kill rate is still maintained. We find the kill rate for blend to be about 70 – 80 percent.

If any of the electrologist here disagree please tell me what part. I have heard so many different things now I am confused.

6

Let me restate that thermolysis has worked wonderfully on my face and chin. The hair is either no existent or a fine fuzz, but it took 2 years to get to that point and also my hair on my neck is less heavy but still at the rate it is going i will be going another 2 years.

7

Thanks ms. wham. You have explained your situation and made this more understandable. Your face is going well and that’s wonderful to hear. Your neck will fall in line eventually.

The above statement is out-dated, not to mention, the author misspells the word, “course”. It should be “coarse” when describing hair structure (just a minor detail that drives me crazy :crazy:) Thermolysis can treat with effective deadliness any hair structure in 2008. It is not just a modality reserved for thin shallow hair. For any electrologist that has continually updated their equipment over the years, they know what I’m saying here. We now have better computerized epilators than we did when this statement was made, that can definitely kill hair, any structure of hair, with thermolysis, more specifically, MicroFlash and PicoFlash thermolysis. Older machines that do Flash are described in the above quote. There are most likely more electrologists than we know about that have not continued their education concerning the newer, computerized epilators offered by various companies now. They stay comfortable in what they know from 20 years ago.

If you do not have the option to visit a professional electrologist who has invested time and money into “ramping up” to the better equipment investments and techniques of the 21st century, then you will still be fine with the strategy you have at this time. It will take longer and cost more, but you will get permanent hair removal just the same.

Glad you are researching this and stay strong. I can only imagine how tough this is for you.

Dee

8

The machine my thermolysis uses is the proteus i believe what it is called and i was told it is an early 1990 model. The have all the lights, goggles, probes and it is a very high tech office but the machines are old. the only reason I went to them is because my endocronoligist referred me to them. So I am at a total loss because I am swimming without a life jacket and i read that speed was the utmost importance and i found that with the lady i go to. My face was cleared everytime I go but now I read that speed is not necessarily good. I am so confused because this isnt a science and everyone makes good sense so I guess for me now it is all trial and error. I will give blend 2 mths and if i dont see where the hairs are finer then i will have to oh i have no idea what i will do, but this is getting very frustrating and expensive.
Even if i were a millionaire I still would be on wits end, even with the speedy electrolysis I still was spending 120 dollars a week on 2 hrs of time.

9

I can not say what is normal for most practitioners, and the co-operation of the clients becomes no small affair here (showing up on schedule and doing the number of hours needed), but my average TG beard removal is done in 12 to 24 months, and 100 to 150 hours with most closer to 100 than 150.

Although we might start out doing many hours close together, we soon are doing fewer hours spread farther apart, and finally, are just doing nit-pick sessions spread 4 - 6 months apart.

Even the people who fly in once every 6 to 8 weeks fall into this range.

10

I understand it has already been said that the above citation is outdated but has thermolysis ever only had a 5 to 15 percent kill rate? That seems awfully bleak. I really like the speed of microflash and I’ve only done about 10 sessions since November, so I can’t exactly tell how much progress I’ve had in killing the hairs but I do know that I feel a lot better leaving the office when clearing lots of hairs with the good electrologist I found (who has all good equip too) even if it is temporary but I am hoping and praying that it is not and that many of the hairs are killed.The money issue is also a problem for me and if my electrolysis debt catches up to or surpasses my school loan debt, I will really be in trouble.

11

If thermolysis only had a kill rate of 5-15%, then many high tech and non-high tech electrologists would be out of business. Where do these numbers come from? Who conducted studies that actually led to these particular numbers and how were those “studies” conducted? Think about statements like that before getting upset. Most number statements can be dissected to pieces and then one ends up not knowing the real truth. Thus, I take you back to the first sentence about 5-15% kill rates… electrologists would be out of business.

Ms.wham, it really would be wise for you to compare electrologists and get more consultations. Most any electrologist can permanently remove hair whether they use galvanic, thermolysis or blend, even if they have 1990 equipment.
The frustrating part comes when the client is doing this for years and they realize that they have spent $15,000 and they have a longer way to go. A well-trained, skillful, high tech electrologist that arms himself/herself with high tech modern tools can satisfy the weary client sooner with better forms of thermolysis (MicroFlash and PicoFlash thermolysis). There are many excellent electrologists doing this every day, but we still don’t have enough in every locale to make this easier for challenging clients like yourself.

What is the electrologist situation like where you live? Can you get more consultations and compare? Just because an endocrinologist recommends a particular practitioner doesn’t mean the good doctor knows this person has the best equipment possible for your challenging work. She can handle a woman’s whispy upper lip hair, but can she handle tough hair like you have in a decent time frame? Your electrologist’s are doing the best work they can. I personally couldn’t deliver hair removal to satisfy you if I worked with older equipment. That would restrict me greatly. I am empowered by my computerized professional epilator. In fact, I am close to ready to move up to something even better than I have. It’s frustrating, because I have to move out of my comfort zone once again, leaving behind what I know well. I will now have to seek further training and learn about newer techniques once again until I feel comfortable working on real paying clients. It’s easy to understand why many electrologist choose to stay close to their older equipment. It takes effort to learn and it takes more money away from the bottom line (initially, speaking).

Just educate yourself and seek. If you stick with Blend, you will still get permanent hair removal, dear one, but just wanted to expand on the reasons that the thermolysis statement you quoted is dated information.

Dee

12

I want to say about the 5% - 15% kill rate falsehood that even in the earliest days a kill rate of 80% was possible with the equipment then available, but the information on how to make that happen was not yet understood.

Collection of information, honing one’s skills, and the best equipment one can get one’s hands on are the things that make a difference here.

13

Not only is an endocrinologist not a great source of electrologist recommendations, but the opposite can be true as well. My electro recommended an endocrinologist who, come to find out, was only interested in helping me have a baby. I love babies and all, but I have no trouble having them on my own and didn’t need help on that. Or at least, not HIS help :wink: He had no interest in checking my hormones for any other reason (like hirsutism) except for that. So do your homework.

That said… sometimes there are simply no good thermolysists (is that a word?) within a few hundred miles of you, and you have to go with blend or multi-needle galvanic or whatever the person is good at. I find that most thermolysis-electrologists suck around here–and I don’t use that word lightly. And, the ones I know even have newer machines, good lighting, magnification… I don’t get it. There’s no reason why their results aren’t better than they are. Faster isn’t better if it doesn’t yield long-term results.

As an aside, I found this article which really surprised me, because I use some of the things this lady mentions (beta hydroxy acid, plus a form of Retin A) and did not know they caused some hair growth. If you use these to make your skin smooth
(Ms. Wham… or anyone else for that matter), stop for now. You’ll have to read the article to see what all this lady was doing to her face-- and adjust your grooming habits accordingly. Guess I’ll quit using titanium oxide too…

The last paragraph is what got me to quit using some of my products.

Lastly, James harps a lot (in a good way) about nutrition. I’ll copy and paste this paragraph that agrees with him:

One of the best ways to prevent androgen excess is by eating a balanced diet rich in quality proteins, complex carbohydrates, and colorful fruits and vegetables. When the body is getting too many refined carbohydrates, such as simple sugars, white bread or pasta, it produces more insulin. And one of the ways the body can respond to high insulin is by increasing androgen production.
Other ways to prevent unwanted hair growth include balancing your hormones, taking a high-quality multivitamin to fill in any nutritional gaps, reducing stress, and keeping your body fat under 30%. Both stress and excess fat can lead to increased androgen production.

That’s useful info for anyone. I know that artificial sweeteners mess up insulin, so that could possibly be an androgen trigger.

Good luck, y’all.

14

Poor electrolysis care and results are a matter of human skill no matter what the modality or the equipment. We keep emphasizing this concept. The possibility and probability of killing hair in a timely manner increases when the human skill matches the better tools and the quicker modalities. Faster isn’t better when the human skill factor is below par. Faster is better finely honed skill and better tools are used correctly.

15

I’ve always said that great results can be attained with ANY modality, but it does rely heavily on practitioner skill. Let me ask you a question, do you feel the hairs coming out? With your thermolysis person? With your blend person?

16

In my area there is a great electrologist with crappy mag and lighting equip and in CofeeGal’s its the exact opposite. What does it take to even things out? It seems like such a shame when both components of the equation are out there yet so many of us cannot find the right combo or the ideal merging of the afore mentioned. It seems even more of a pity to me the good electrologist with bad equipment b/c that is so easily fixed.

17

Alli your so right! I have to say that I was mainly basing my Electrologist search on skill and Apilus machine. I have learnt from experience that skill and visual equipment is more important than a computerised machine…great if you get the great machine too though! I’m sure I have more hair and the ones that I wanted rid of are thicker now, all because probe missing it’s target (poor visual) and as the hair was fine to start with it can sometimes be tweezed without tweezing being felt. Hope this makes sense???

18

Another thing that irritates me is that all electrologists that I know claim to do all 3 modes of electrolysis, but in actuality will only do thermolysis. You can’t request blend from those ones, because THEY “decide which mode is the best for you.” The client has no say. Who’s paying here, anyway?

They will also insist it’s working when it’s not–we live with ourselves 24 hours a day, after all; we should know–and they start stretching out your appointments (farther apart) before you’re ready to. I think they all imagine they’re so wonderful when they really just aren’t. They are just way too sure of themselves.

So we just have to count on the lye to do the job that the electrologist can’t seem to do for us.

I think I’m going to have my daughters skip college and go straight to electrology school :wink: At least they’ll give me what I order! :slight_smile:

19

I strongly believe that if an electrologist can perform blend and the client requests that modality, they should give them what they want. If there is a good reason not to do blend, then the client should be educated so they understand why thermolysis is better for them.

I don’t have the energy right now to look at all your posts, Coffee, to try and figure out how long you have been at this, so I don’t know what to say about “it’s not working” and “stretching appointments farther apart”…

I just hope that other electrologists pay attention to what consumers like you are saying and try to offer what is appropriate. Please know that we, as electrologists, have to deal with people that have totally off the wall demands and expectations, as well.

20

No need to fish around for my posts! I’ve been at it for about 2 years, and the Spiro has certainly helped. I haven’t said a whole lot about myself, because it isn’t really about me, but I’ve been popping in once in awhile with anything I find out that might be helpful to someone, or my own experiences with things, and sometimes others’ experiences that I find worth reporting. Folks can pick out what they need from my posts.

The ones I feel the worst for are the teens whose parents aren’t taking them seriously enough. It’s got to feel hopeless when there literally is nothing they can do about their hirsutism.

Yeah, I bet there are some whacko demands on you by clients. Goes both ways, I guess. Maybe that’s partly why some electrologists get so defensive.