Hey RJC2001, what is the longest period you have observed an area treated with theAurora without getting another treatment? Although my patch test on my stomach still looks great after 4 months, I read a post on another Forum where a guy got just one treatment on his neck. He was happy because it reduced the hair dramatically for 5 months, but at 6 months he had full regrowth. I’m trying to find out the specifics from him (treatment levels), but in the back of my mind I’m still worried about long term results. I’m not planning on doing anything with the hair on my stomach for a while, so I’ll be able to monitor the patch test on my stomach and find out for sure what is going on. 4 months and it still looks great.
My last Aurora treatment was in May of this year so I have had some time to see the results. That is how I arrived at my conlusion of 30% reduction on my arms. Those results are good considering I only had one treatment with a follow up 4 weeks later to get any spots that were missed. The regrowth occurred in two months with no increase after that.
Just like laser, I don’t think most of us would be satisfied with just one treatment.
One objective way I use to estimate hair reduction is to shave a treated area with an electric shaver and then brush out the clippings onto a white Kleenex. I can compare the amount of hair to the amount shaved when I started treatments. When I did this after just a few laser treatments on my chest, the results were astounding.
RJC2001
</font><blockquote><font size=“1” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>quote:</font><hr /><font size=“2” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>Just because one or two doctors said so doesn’t make it true. And we have to ask about the backgrounds of the doctors that made those statements. Maybe they got paid by the electrolysis industry to conduct a “study.” Pure speculation on my part, but you never know.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size=“2” face=“Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif”>I know you don’t know this, but it is really funny to even hear some one speculate on it. I got to tell you, there is no electrolysis industry paying anybody to say or do anything. This is an industry that can’t even get itself together well enough to mount an awareness campaign just to say, “We still exist, we are here for you, and these are the practitioners working in your area.” Our largest professional membership organization even let its representation by a public relations firm lapse and has not bothered to sign up with another, leaving this job to be done by no one for years. On this, the laser folks are way ahead on points. Their industry will do news fluff pieces all over television just to get people to go to their yellow pages to find out who is performing treatments in their area without regard to which laser treatment they may be doing. If the electrology “industry” tried to do the same, there would be infighting of epic proportions while some screamed that thermolysis is the only thing that works, and others that Blend is the ultimate, and still others that if it isn’t Straight Galvanic, it is not REAL electrolysis.
I just could not help myself. Co-operation in the electrolysis industry? Now that is a belly bending, laugh till you cry kind of joke. Thanks for the early morning chuckle dude 
[ October 06, 2003, 05:04 AM: Message edited by: James W. Walker VII, CPE ]
Hi, I’m the COO of Sona Laser Centers. We do more laser hair removal treatments than anyone in the world (thousands per month). Here are some facts about our experience.
We selected the Cynosure Apogee 9300 (designed by Horace Furumoto who started both Candela and Cynosure and is one of the top laser gurus in the world) as the fastest most powerful laser available, (fast means quicker treatments which translates into less cost). It is a long pulse Alexndrite laser. Our research shows the Alexandrite delivers at the wavelength most effective for hair removal. Powerful means bigger spot sizes with the power to deliver constant fluences (again for speed). Yes bigger spot size also means more actual, effective energy delivered to the target. We use a SmartCool device that is air cooled which has no interference with the laser energy being delivered (we felt the cryogen spray had some interference effect with eht laser energy.) It also allows the nurse delivering the treatment to see exactly where she has been so the overlap isn’t too great (burns prevented) or stripes missed.
Everyone has both terminal hair (darker and coarser) and vellus hair (thinner, lighter, shorter). The area of your body with the highest concentration of hair is actually the forehead (its just all fine vellus hair).
As we grow older stuff happens to cause vellus hair to become terminal hair. Hormones in puberty and memopause, etc. Other things can do this also- drugs and even the sun (ever seen someone who has been in the sun a lot and has dark hairs growing on their nose?
The Alexandrite laser energy is attracted to melanin. The greater the difference between melanin in the hair and skin, the easier to treat without burning the skin. Something called “thermodynamic selectivity” helps this process along. Think of a nail and alluminum foil. Put both in an oven for a while and remove them. You can touch the aluminum foil right away but the nail will burn you. The surface area of the aluminum foil dissipates the energy quicker. The skin is like the aluminum foil and the hair like the nail. The energy from the laser gets stored in the hair as the skin is dissipating and eventually if all works right, the little blood vessel at the base of the hair is cauterized by the energy transmitted down the hair. Once this happens that hair can never grow back again- scientific fact! No blood, no cell growth, no hair.
Now here is where so many LHR practitioners mess up. Each anatomic area of the body goes through three cycles (anagen-growth phase; catagen-dormant or resting phase; and telogen- fall out stage) and only in the growth phase is the hair attached to the blood vessel. After a laser hair removal treatment all the hair should be removed, but only the hair in the growth phase will be permanantly removed. The rest will grow back.
Unfortuantely almost all practitioners treat every area of the body on the same cycle- every 4 to 6 weeks. But every anatomic area of the body has a different time frame for the cycles. Therefore most treatments are not effective- they are going over hair that has already been removed, since new hair hasn’t come into the anagen/growth cycle. You might as well run your credit card over the area to be just as effective.
So its not that LHR is not efective, its that people tend to get good results on their first treatment, then have treatments that are done when the areas are not yet in the anagen cycle. (One of the worst things you can do is just damage the hair and not deliver enough energy to fully stop the blood flow- the hair grows back thinner and lighter, makeing it even harder to remove),
You need a good laser (powerful at the right wavelength) done on the right program (we developed the patent pending “Sona Concept” to treat each anatomic area of the body at the window of time most effective for hair removal).
Over five treatments and a touch up or two this should remove 90+ percent of the hair forever.
Now - can vellus hair be converted to new terminal hair? Yes, so over time you can see new terminal hair grow. Women in menopause, teens and young adults going through puberty (each is a little different- I didn’t even have calfs til I was a senior in high school:-) People on certain drugs, sun etc.
In the end any treatment of the body is somewhat an art- God just made each person unique so some people just have better or worse results than the averages.
Mr. Noon, I took a look at your website and I have two questions. Can photos be made available that document, say, a mans beard six months after his final treatment rather than shorlty afterwards. It seems like “after” photos should show a good period AFTER. Your photos, and almost everyone elses photos, don’t make this distinction. My second question is regarding your enthuseasm for Meladine in the treatment of light hair. Do you have any photos documenting the successful treatment of light hair using this method. Photographs would answer so many questions about proof, and yet almost every Website that I am referred to on this forum shows photos with vague timelines and no documentation of success with light hair. I would be very interested in more detailed photos of your work.
TRN,
you say that only hair that’s in growing phase will be removed. how long does it take for hair in growing phase to become dormant? if I’m being treated every 3-4 months is it likely that the treatments are useless because they’re missing the growing phase?
It varies from each part of the body.
I think Andrea put a list out somewhere showing how long the growing phases are of each body part.I did a search but couldnt seem to find it.
Took me forever to find it, too!
Here’s the growth charts:
http://www.hairtell.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=000024
hi Thomas & Andrea,
Thank you for these very helpful posts regarding the length of growth cycles and how they are related to the effectiveness of laser treatments. Can I please clarify something - below is info from the post Andrea refers to in the post above about growth cycle periods - if i should be getting treatment during the anagen phase (which A below stands for) does this mean i get my underarm treatments 16 weeks apart for maximum effectiveness?
Axillae (armpits): 28 weeks
T = 12 weeks A = 16 weeks
cheers, lollie
TRN’s post on how laser works is one of the best I have read. The alexandrite laser, when properly used, can be very effective. After all, the first laser treatment on my chest, with 50% removal, was done with the Apogee. I do feel though that the diode lasers have been more effective on finer hairs as treatment progresses.
I think hitting the areas in the early stages of the anagen phase is the key to effective hair removal. This varies from person to person so this makes it more difficult.
RJC2001
lollie, each hair you have is on a slightly different cycle, so a hair that’s just atrating anagen may have one next to it which is halfway through its cycle.
Treatment regimens are best determined based on the area and outcome desired, but usually laser treatments are 6 to 8 weeks apart (sometimes more, sometimes fewer).
Eventually you may see some sychonization of hair growth cycles, as electrolysis and laser interrupt the cycle and cause treated hairs to start again at the same time. This doesn’t always happen, though.
Does that mean that the first treatment is basically useless because the hair is dormant at that time? also, rjc2001, you say you only have treatments during the winter after a long break, wouldn’t you be better off just waxing before the first winter treatment to get the hairs in growth stage?
I only get treatments in the winter and spring because that is the only time my skin is light enough.
The hairs present at any given time are in different stages of growth. When I get my first treatment in the winter there are always some hairs in the growth stage.
RJC2001