Feedback from the experts here? Recent treatments

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hi,

I have recently started electrolysis on arms. So far have put in 3 hours, and it has cleared 80% of the anterior part of the forearm.

I felt some plucking and asked about it, and my electrologist said that the hairs were in telogen and had “knots” at the end, and were not coming out smoothly. Is this true? It seemed the hairs in anagen came out nicely.

I believe our goal is to get a first clearance in about another 2-3 hours. According to my electrologist, even though many hairs were zapped, they will still grow back, but weaker. I thought one zap and it was done…is what I have been told true? I thought multiple clearances happened due to the fact not all the hair grows at the same time, but that any previously zapped hair will not return. Clarification appreciated!!

#2

Great questions! I, too, am curious about the answers one could provide.

I do know that it may take a few zaps on stubborn, coarse hair.

#3

First, I get crap from some of the pro’s when I answer some of these, so to put my opinion in perspective I am a DIY’er, though a fairly knowledgeable one who studies hard and practises even more.

What your electrolysist has told you, if accurately described, sounds like a load of crap. You are absolutely right that that regrowth occurs due to hair growth cycles. It also happens when hairs are not destroyed successfully because the electrolysist is not skilled enough to kill the folicle successfully. In my own work I’ll maybe come accross one hair in 20 that no matter how many timesI insert, or how accurately, just dont seem to come out nicely. I will usually know before I try and extract, I use blend and I wont see that nice ball of lye froth I am used to seeing on successful hairs. It means…I screwed up.
Hairs in any mode of growth can be successfully destroyed. The techniquue to do so though takes time to develop and experience to develop. Telogen hairs do not develop “knots” when you feel the pluck, it is because the hair is still firmly attached tot he folicle because it is not successfully destroyed.

Now this is NOT to say you have a bad electrolysist. She/he just hasnt accurately described what is going on. Will you see regrowth ont he hairs not successfully destroyed? Absolutely. But the next time that hair appears, it’s going to be in anogen, not telogen, and will be destroyed the next go round.

Seana

#4

Sometimes I feel a pull or hear a noise so to speak, but I don’t feel like she’s plucking. I mean, shouldn’t we feel something? It is attached to our bodies after all.

#5

At the point the hair should be removed it is NOT attached to our bodies. Resistance is the cue for most of the pro’s to apply more treatment ( even in the empty folicle) to ensure it is destroyed. Hairs shoudl come out like they are lubricated, which, actually they kinda are.

Seana

#6

When you say “more treatment”, what do you mean?

#7

There is no resistance, I think, but rather a feeling. I can’t explain. I know what I mean and I think it’s the same as what the original poster feels as well. It’s not a pluck, more of an acknowledgement that it’s being removed. Maybe I’m completely wrong.

#8

thelight,
just what it sounds like .Either more thermolysis energy, blend , or galvanic, whatever the operator is working in. The idea is to kill off the germination cells that still survive in the follicle.

Seana

#9

CrazyBeautiful, I think you are describing what I feel…it’s not a true pluck, but just that it’s “coming out”…maybe someone can shed more light on this…

#10

I am no expert either, but there have been many discussions already on these forums regarding that false plucking sensation you have noticed. Not everyone agrees on whether this is a sign of bad/under treatment…

Here are a couple of threads where it has been discussed recently:


http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/108214/Roots_bigger_than_opening.html (this one more so in reference to hairs with large roots)

I am interested to know what the experts have to say specifically about feeling this sensation with regards to vellus hairs, and/or those in telogen phase.

I don’t think it simply a matter of being “skilled enough”, as opposed to what a reasonable expectation…
I remember reading a while ago on here that the “kill rate” percentage from a good electrologist is about 80%. So that would mean the 20% remaining would then come back as regrowth.
It is thus then a folly to believe, or expect, you can fully treat all hairs with 100% accuracy the first time around.
It is however the electrologists job to ensure that it is as close as (humanly) possible.

#11

Thank you for your input.

Last question…if I am not getting any post-treatment scabs (just slight swelling immediately after treatment but this goes away…) am I not being treated properly?

#12

Haha sounds like electrologists can’t win :wink:

To be slightly less flippant: in my own experience, body work is more likely to form scabs than facial work.

But as to whether it means a better treatment or not… why even get into it.

#13

no scabs is a DESIRED result. Most of the pro’s here DONT cause scabbing because they are that good.

Seana

#14

This discussion reminds me of the frustration Apilus and Silhouet-Tone had when the SX-500 and VMC models came out.

People were returning them because their customers did not believe they were working because the treatments “did not hurt enough.” :o

I kid you not!

#15

James, Good to see you about, you were missing for a while…
I can totally understand what James is saying. For a while I was having work done at a school. They had a VMC I’m fairly sure. . They worked on my chin, which isnt my most sensative area. I barely felt the treatment energy. I too questioned whether they were undertreating. They did just fine, but those machines James mentioned dont relay the same level of discomfort some of the 13 mhz machines do. Not even close.

Catsup, let me explain what I mean by that.You are only partly right, and it relates to thelight’s question as well.

When epilating on myself, I will test the hair. A less experienced electrolysist will simply remove the hair. Whether it’s attached still or not. If insufficient treatment energy is used they will then seee the hair under the magnification, and it will have no sheath, or a half mangled one. When you test the hair, ideally, it will come out of the folicle like butter. Zero resistance. I have thick, stubborn male type face hairs that have been there in some cases 30 some years. If the hair is still somewhat attached, that is when it will feel like I’m pulling a tennis ball through a garden hose. No it isnt the same as a pluck, but sometimes it comes close. If I see tenting of the skin, that’s the clincher. I then put the needle back in and give another cycle ( or half a cycle) of electrolysis treatment. In almost every case, that extra half cycle or cycle is enough to change a hair tht has “some resistance” to one that comes out of the follicle like butter, barely even felt, like it’s being ejected on rails. That “testing” of the hair, is what sometimes can make the difference between a hair that will regrow, and one that wont. So yes, skill is a large part of what you see for regrowth rates. You are correct that you wont usually see close to 100% ( though some like josefa come close!) but the more thorough and attentive the electrolysist is during treatment, can have a huge effect on this. And the client can tell the difference, just from feel.
THIS IS NOT TO SAY that if you are feeling some resistance you will definitely see high regrowth rates. But the chances are better you wont, if the hair is thoroughly destroyed.
Again, the pro’s opinions, may well differ.

Seana

#16

Thanks for the kindness… despite what some may think and say, I am actually a very busy person and sometimes, writing here takes a back seat… especially when others are answering questions such that my input is hardly necessary.

Thank YOU Seana, for making my input unnecessary in many posts, on many days.

#17

GRINS. I DID listen.

#18

Update:

I have not kept up with arms due to financial constraints (will pick up again next year) but it has been about 6 weeks since I did sideburns, and so far only finer hairs have regrown - nothing like it looked originally. Will wait for more growth before clearance #2.

Fingers were done about 2-3 weeks ago (?) and have random growth of 2-3 thick hairs on every other finger or so and finer hairs on most. Again, nothing like it was originally. Will probably go back for second clearance at some point.

#19

Repeated treatments may be necessary on distorted hair follicles due to waxing and tweezing or from naturally grown distorted hair follicles such as someone with curly hair or underarm and bikini area. I agree resistance happens on telogen hairs but you should not feel plucking. Scabbing can happen on the face if the setting needed is high but it almost always happens on the body unless the hairs are very fine and the setting is low. I took my schooling almost 6 years ago and this is what they are teaching. I have also seen this in my experience from working with electrologists with 1-20+ years experience.