Sounds odd, a decent machine can easily cost 100k USD, when you shuffle it around the city, the likelihood of damaging it is very high and also they won’t be able to make much money. Say he gets 2k a day on the machine at that given day and he has 5 other offices, so max of 12k a month for that machine… a good business will have that machine working almost 24/7.
shrug I know. It’s a good machine too.
I already confronted him about it when I couldn’t get a touch up and I got suspicious, so he showed me he still had the machine and let me see it for myself. It was on premises every day I came in for other things as well. He point blank told me he does not rent it, but brings it to his other offices if for nonlocal clients some days which is partly why he schedules all treatments at the same time.
He simply said he is the only one who does treatments with it and that he schedules all the treatments on the same day if possible because he has actual surgeries on all the other days. The day he finally agreed to do my touch up was last minute and I had to wait for him to come from his other office, run in for a few minutes to touch me up, then run back out again. His schedule was the issue, definitely not the machine.
IPL is one problem. Another is that only VERY experienced techs are to be trusted with treating male face. I would bet that he just didn’t want to deal with your unhappiness if he couldn’t get you results that you wanted. I always repeat that a male face requires a very experienced tech who has experience treating this specific area.
I had my consultation with the nurse at the plastic surgeon’s office and she, so far answered all my questions in depth and denied the complications that the previous doc told me about.
But she refused to treat me until I came back with a completely clear face (devoid of acne) because she said the temporary hyperpigmentation healing acne spots leave have darker pigment and will scar me if the laser pulses there. For some reason they only do LHR on mondays so im using a facial cleanser twice a day to get my face cleared up as fast as possible to be ready for next monday.
However, she did say that she has only treated one male face (some indian guy’s neck that had lots of ingrowns.) But this is probably the most functioning clinic in the redneck city I am in so I got no other options.
The consent form also never mentioned any hyperpigmentation like the last one so ill assume they are serious about their professional practice.
What machine are they using? Did she mention settings she would try?
ND:YAG, 10mm spot size and 40-60 joules. Im not sure which machine.
Those are really high joules on the Yag, which means you are light enough for an alex or a diode laser. It would be helpful to use a machine with a bigger spot size too. Your Sciton setttings had a really small spot size too.
No alex or diode in my area unfortunately, at least not in any credible clinic. I know the last clinic used a small spot size, but it did remove a lot of my beard so I guess its not too bad. What is the role of the spot size anyway?
Spot size affects the depth of penetration as well as makes patchiness less likely if it’s large (it’s the size of the head of the laser). Joules are not as effective at smaller spot sizes.
I see.
Update: I decided to try out electrolysis since it will take longer than expected before i’m zit-free. Should I start a new thread in the electrolysis section or continue posting here?
Are you saying you’re going for electrolysis because you’re on Accutane? I believe it affects skin sensitivity, so electrolysis may be an issue as well.
Yes, start a thread on the electrolysis forum.
You really have to watch if you are on accutane, when I did it before years ago I couldn’t imagine even touching my face. I find for a day or two after I do laser on my face, my skin feels just like when I was on accutane. All dry, rough, tender and puffy feeling, so I can only imagine what it would feel like having that plus the added experience of electrolysis.
No im not on accutane, I have a medicated version of a facial cleanser gel, and it doesnt make skin more susceptible to damage.
I am still going for laser on my face when the zits clear off. The electrolysis i’m planning for another area, and a couple regions on my face that have minor appearances of blond and red hairs (and maybe touching up some spots that is hard to reach with laser.)
I might even ditch laser completely because the lady said it would take 5-6 hours for an average male beard at $47 an hour which is slightly less expensive than the laser treatment by the plastic surgeon, but I did pay a $30 consultation fee which is reimbursable if I decide to go for the treatment, so I might as well go, at least once.
But 5-6 hours (contrary to James claim of 15-20) is not that bad, around the same price and evidently more effective than laser, so why the hell not? I already had 10% reduction from my laser treatment in january so it should take even less time and money in the long run. I cant name a good reason not to do electrolysis instead.
Ill keep you all updated and start the new thread once I go thru the appointment next week.
I would really doubt any electrologists can remove your entire beard in 5-6 hours. Even the best electrologist removes 5-10 hairs per minute with the fastest method. Estimate how many hairs you have and divide by this number. You’ll get a more accurate estimate.
It won’t take “less time and money”. One clearance with electrolysis is only a start. You’re really underestimating your time committment and costs here, whether you take on laser or electrolysis. And you need to understand that you will spend about 10 times more time on the table getting treatments with electrolysis. After that first clearance (not in 5-6 hours, but at least twice as many), you’ll have to come in at least once every week or two for several months for several more hours each time to keep up with the growth. After that, it will slow down to once every 3-4 weeks for another 9 months or so.
Some acne is not an issue for laser treatments. It can actually help clear it up.
I think she was referring to 5-6 hours for the first clearance. I’ve never had electrolysis, but if James says 15-20 then I think it’s pretty much 15-20 as he’s the expert!
Like LAGirl said, laser will probably help your acne. You can actually do laser acne removal, it uses the laser to kill the bacteria under the skin so if anything it might be beneficial.
15-20 electrolysis treatments to completely treat a beard is a pretty optimistic estimate. I don’t doubt that James can do it in that time frame, but the majority of electrologists out there are not James.
Read Bryce’s diary here. He’s doing electrolysis on his back. You’ll get a better idea of how much committment and time and money it will take to clear that many follicles for good.
Plus, if you’re going for 100% removal, you might as well do laser first and remove up to 80-90% of the hair with only 8 or so treatments that each take about 20-30 mins, are spaced 8 weeks apart, and only cost around $200. You will spend a lot more time on the table removing this hair by hair with electrolysis to get the same result.
One laser session on the face is $300, a 6-hour electrolysis session at $47 an hour is $282. I would estimate but I really doubt I could count all the hairs on my face. Bryce has got his back cleared with electrolysis, not face.
And you cant remove acne with laser, you can remove acne scars with laser. The nurse specifically explained that because of the dark red color of the zits, will absorb more heat of the laser that will be adjusted for type 3 caucasian skin, so they need to be cleared up before she can treat me.
Also, are you saying more treatments are required with electrolysis than laser? Why is that? I thought laser is always credited with being hit-n-miss and not completely getting the job done.
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$300 is not a set number for all clinics. It’s a number that was given to you at whatever clinic you visited. If you shop around and bargain, you can find better prices. $200 is not unreasonable at all.
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You’re not understanding how electrolysis works (probably because you still haven’t had a treatment). Each hair is treated one by one. At any one point, only 30% or so of the hair is visible. So estimate how many hairs you see right now, then multiply by 3. That’s how many individual hairs electrolysis will have to treat at a rate of 5-10 hairs per minute (if you get it done with fast thermolysis method; others are slower). THEN, you also have to consider that many hairs will need to be zapped 2-3 times to be killed for good, i.e. you’ll have to add more hours to compensate for a good number of hairs being treated more than once.
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I know what area Bryce treated (it’s actually an easier area to treat than the face). I suggested for you to read his diary so you can get a more accurate idea of the hours and costs involved in a project like this with that many follicles to treat with electrolysis. It doesn’t matter what area it is. I’m telling you to read his story so you can understand how many hours on the electrologist’s table it will take to treat that number of follicles and how much it will cost (in the thousands).
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No one says laser treats acne. BUT laser dries out the area a bit and many report a huge decrease in acne. There is certainly no issues with getting laser on an area where you have acne. The point was that it can only help and will not make your acne any worse.
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YES, a LOT more treatments are required with electrolysis. What we’re talking about here is the amount of time you spend on the table. Laser treats an entire face in about 30 mins give or take because it doesn’t remove hair one by one. Think of your one laser treatment you had (though it was with a tiny spot size, so a lot slower than it should be) and imagine you had that entire area treated hair by hair at 5 hairs per minute. That’s how long electrolysis would take to do that ONE session that you got with laser for the same result. This is why we recommend to start with laser and kill all you can with it and finish with electrolysis on the finer hair that remains. It is faster (i.e. a LOT less time on the table) and cheaper overall.
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I don’t know where you’re gettin your last comment from. Laser by a good experienced tech with a good machine at good settings will do the exact same thing as a good electrologist with a good electrolysis machine at good electrolysis settings. Just in less amount of time on the table. (And this is only true for coarse dense hair since laser can’t remove other types of hair).
- $300 is not a set number for all clinics. It’s a number that was given to you at whatever clinic you visited. If you shop around and bargain, you can find better prices. $200 is not unreasonable at all.
It is $300 at this clinic, and it is the most credible one in the city. They all opened only a couple years ago and I was surprised there was not one but a couple clinics in the town I am in with a population of 60,000. Many of them have dubious experience and practices, and I dont have many options. Ive decided to stick with this one. No clinic to my knowledge does a face for $200, and frankly I wouldnt trust a clinic that works for cheap.
You’re not understanding how electrolysis works (probably because you still haven’t had a treatment). Each hair is treated one by one. At any one point, only 30% or so of the hair is visible. So estimate how many hairs you see right now, then multiply by 3. That’s how many individual hairs electrolysis will have to treat at a rate of 5-10 hairs per minute (if you get it done with fast thermolysis method; others are slower). THEN, you also have to consider that many hairs will need to be zapped 2-3 times to be killed for good, i.e. you’ll have to add more hours to compensate for a good number of hairs being treated more than once.
Yes I know THAT, I meant treatment, not session. Multiple sessions are probably required to complete one treatment because it takes so damn long, and I thought you meant that electrolysis takes more treatments (not sessions) so I was confused. Also, I really suck at estimating so I cant say how many hairs I have on my face. Its like asking me to estimate how many grains of rice there are in the bowl, I always guess a couple hundred when there are probably a couple thousand.
The lady must have meant 5-6 hours per session instead of treatment (god damn I hate it when people are so vague) but oh well, I will see when I get there (im not doing my face anyway, im doing my chest and stomach, which has only a thin streak of hairs and wont take that long)
I know what area Bryce treated (it’s actually an easier area to treat than the face). I suggested for you to read his diary so you can get a more accurate idea of the hours and costs involved in a project like this with that many follicles to treat with electrolysis. It doesn’t matter what area it is. I’m telling you to read his story so you can understand how many hours on the electrologist’s table it will take to treat that number of follicles and how much it will cost (in the thousands).
Okay, but it probably wouldnt help. I suck really bad at estimating, and hairs on the back are more spread out, have lower density than the face so, yeah.
No one says laser treats acne. BUT laser dries out the area a bit and many report a huge decrease in acne. There is certainly no issues with getting laser on an area where you have acne. The point was that it can only help and will not make your acne any worse.
The nurse said the laser will burn my skin on the acne breakout areas. It making my acne worse is the least of my concern.
I don’t know where you’re gettin your last comment from. Laser by a good experienced tech with a good machine at good settings will do the exact same thing as a good electrologist with a good electrolysis machine at good electrolysis settings. Just in less amount of time on the table. (And this is only true for coarse dense hair since laser can’t remove other types of hair).
All I know is the bad rep it has for not working, for nasty side effects and for hair eventually regrowing after a couple months/years, some ideal candidates not responding and so on. Electrolysis has all the positive published studies since it has been around for so long and proven efficacy regardless of the type of hair. I just have more faith in it, thats all. I dont distrust LHR, I was just confused when you said electrolysis requires more treatments, but you meant more sessions, so I get it now.
First off, $300 is really expensive for face, I pay $75 and my clinic is amazing. Is this clinic that’s so amazing the one that uses the Sciton? Just curious where you’re getting the info that that laser is the best. My full face and neck takes maybe 20 minutes if that with laser, I couldn’t even imagine 6 hours a session. Second, yes laser can be used to treat acne AND acne scars.
http://www.tcclinic.com/acnetreatment.php
“Propionibacterium acnes (P. Acnes), the name of the bacteria related to acne, produces porphyrins to assist in its metabolism. However, when exposed to a specific wavelength of light, these porphyrins change and have a negative impact on the metabolism, thereby destroying it. It is in this way that future breakouts of acne are inhibited, with a gradual reduction in the amount of acne over a series of sessions.”