Exciting "new treatment"

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Dry needling

A casual conversation with one of my patients introduced me to a relatively new upcoming treatment. My prediction is that this one is going to be “big.” Bigger than microdermabrasion and permanent makeup! Maybe even beating out “resurfacing lasers!” With my basic understanding of wound-healing and collagen remodeling, this “new” treatment stunned me because I can’t understand why it hasn’t been “discovered” before. This one is based on real science and, well, it just can’t miss.

All the various treatments to minimize wrinkles are based on selective skin injury. Such injury “kicks up” the healing process and ultimately stimulates fibroblasts to remodel the skin’s collagen. Chemical mediators do exist in the epidermis (only as thick as a piece of paper) that will somewhat call forth the healing process. Indeed, this is what micro-dermabrasion is trying to do, but in my opinion it’s not successful — except to cause temporary edema, which gives the client the impression of fewer wrinkles. See, if I slap you hard in the face, your face turns a nice rosy color, swells up a bit and your wrinkles puff up. Retin-A, pretty much does the same — although there are long-term benefits, if you don’t mind prolonged skin sensitivity and flaky skin.

However, for real remodeling you need to go deeper. True dermabrasion removes the epidermis and a good portion of the dermis (it’s a bloody procedure). Although the skin gets somewhat thinner, deep scars (acne) are beautifully remodeled. “Resurfacing” lasers are similar, but less invasive — chemical peels, again, are less invasive. Still, they all aim for the same result: inducing the skin to rebuild itself into a better more beautiful structure. And now, “dry needling!” I’m amazed at the potential.

(Here’s a question for the Hairtell folks: If the entire epidermis is removed during a dermabrasion procedure, how does the epidermis grow back?)

Okay, back to our story: Clinically, a physician noticed that scars seemed to be minimized by permanent (makeup) tattoos! Experimentation showed that using a tattoo machine without ink engendered the same result! Presently there are several kinds of instruments that will accomplish this “needling effect.” There are little needle rollers and needle stamps — but my choice is for the full tattoo-type machine that will really get in and stir things up. What I like especially is that the skin is not being removed at all and there are no chemicals used — and no burning laser. It’s a very “natural” procedure. Our skin has evolved for millions of years and it knows exactly what to do with a “puncture wound!” (Micro-dermabrasion, by the way, causes facial telangiectasia!)

Promoters of such needling devices say that they are only “needling the epidermis” … but this is absolutely not the case. As you know, the epidermis is bloodless. and even in their promotional literature they show that the skin gets pretty bloody from the procedure. Bloody? Well, that’s why I like the treatment! Since they are (actually) going where the normal tattoo needle goes, they are going to have a magnificent result. That is where you need to be! The entire healing process is going to get started, fibroblasts are going to remodel the collagen layer and wrinkles and scars are going to be “filled.” — long-term or permanently It just can’t miss.

The big danger, of course, is for potential infection. Pre-op skin preparation absolutely must be followed to avoid serious problems. I suppose tattoo artists are following appropriate procedures, but I can’t imagine the horror if the patient already had staph on their skin and then got “needled.” Of course, reported infections from tattoo and permanent makeup is remarkable low — so, this will probably not be a big concern. (I would even go the full Betadyne or Hibiclen pre-surgery prep.) Certainly, as this treatment gets rolling, Health Authorities will develop clinical protocols to follow. I’m sure this treatment is going to find itself in the offices of estheticians and, in California, our State Board will have multiple heart attacks and strokes trying to regulate the procedure. This technique is going to work and it will rival the best laser treatments. This is going to be a case or “low tech” beating out “high tech.” It’s coming folks and (maybe) you heard it here first?

#2

Does this have any connection with the Electroridolisis?

The treatment involves inserting a fine needle as the course of wrinkles, passing a current whose intensity and exposure time (few seconds) are established previously.

The Electroridolisis, creates a micro-induced dermic burn, dermic self-healing and fibrosis, which will be responsible to fill the wrinkle.

Of a thing I am sure. Electrolysis also has beneficial side effects. The first one is that “closes” the pores permanently offering to the skin a homogeneous aspect. The second one is that it helps to raise a wrinkle (if has not existed overtreatment).

#3

No nothing to do with electolysis or current and that’s the “beauty” of it. I have tried using elect. to reduce the appearance of wrinkles: it didn’t work. This is more “global,” and I think will soon make its mark in the beauty industry.

I did, however, discover one odd aspect of electrolysis! I was trying to remove two sections of my beard (now almost all white). I did a horrible job (in the mirror), and missed every hair. When the hairs grew back, they were BLACK again. I think the stimulation caused melanocytes to re-populate the follicle. I still have two black “spots” in my beard. Interesting? Can you imagine … well, never mind …

#4

I have learned not to underestimate any of your comments, Michael.
You have the habit of being always right.
How do you get?

(Thanks for the premiere)

#5

I’ve had this occur on my upper lip. Where there was a majority of only brown, red, gray and white hairs before, there are now appearing black hairs. Even the white hairs being removed appear to have black bulbs.

Curiouser and curiouser, cried Alice…

#6

Caith, can you just imagine a clinic using electrolysis/thermolysis to return white hairs to brown? I know one thing for certain: I won’t be doing it!

When it comes to hairs, I only like killing them! (Except when I do hair transplants with the doc.)

Jossie: NOBODY is always right! Trust me, ideas that I thought were 100% correct? I later found I was wrong. In fact, being wrong is my speciality. It’s good to be wrong.

#7

One of my early clients was an 80 year old woman who had 16 children. (random info, I know) She had a white “soul patch” of heavy hair. After the first clearing, she returned with a black “soul patch”! Less hair, whew! …and did complete treatments…

Regarding micro-needling (?)I’ve seen these little rollers (no current used) available to the esthetics industry. They are about the size of the phoresis roller. The thing is, they are rather expensive and most estheticians do not use sterilizers. They often believe that the ultra-violet “sterilizer” will actually “sterilize”.

#8

Yes, Barbara and that is a BIG concern — infection. I think those “light boxes” are a serious danger because the uninformed DO believe that the “blue light” will sterilize! The risk of cross-infection from these devices is frightening. It’s only a matter of time.

#9

For Michael,
your comment made me recall this poem.

“and even if it’s sunday may i be wrong
for whenever men are right they are not young”

#10

Unfortunately, they usually have “sterilizer” in the name of the device. Have you noticed that you can now purchase vacuum cleaners that have the blue light attached to the front? Supposed to do something to living stuff in the carpet…(provide special lighting for their disco?)

#11

OMG you made me laugh out loud Barbara! Yes, disco lighting for your vacuum.

By the way, following is the “amazing” answer to the question I posed to the Hairtell group:

“If the entire epidermis is removed in dermabrasion how is the epidermis rebuilt?”

Remember, the follicles and lining of “sweat glands” are filled with epithelial cells. When the epidermis is “gone” these “deep lying” stem cells are stimulated and begin to migrate out of the follicle and other pore openings. They form tiny islands of epidermis and eventually link-up, and then completely reform the entire epidermis: all layers and all functions. (The literature says that the rebuilt epidermis is somewhat thinner, but lacks no function.)

In burn victims, the real danger is the loss of epidermis and the resulting infection. We would be dead in no time, except for that thin miracle called the epidermis. Infection would take us out in a very short time. People seldom think about how important the skin is.

Stunningly, a German doctor as invented “epidermal cell spraying” for burn victims. Instead of waiting for the epidermis to grow outwardly from stem cells in the pores and follicles, he has a new technique. He harvests epidermal cells from the patient and rapidly “clones” them. He then puts the cells in a “paint gun” and sprays the epidermal cells on the burned areas (those devoid of epidermis). These tiny “islands of epidermal cells” get nourished from the underlying dermis and oxygen in a hyperbaric chamber. And, it works like a miracle! If you look on-line you will see burn victims that have recovered rapidly with nearly no loss of function.

The amazing thing about the epidermis is that it can regenerate itself: much like a lizard’s tail. The only other organ that can do this, I think, is the liver. (BTW, I assisted in a dermabrasion and I won’t do it again. Blood and tissue “everywhere!” I almost fainted.)

#12

LINK:

(Maybe a bit hard to watch, but this is amazing and wonderful!)

#13

I can not see the video. The author who uploaded it has blocked access to users from my country. :confused:

#14

Another one… sigh. I observe this on most of my older clients when i remove beards; it did also happen on some hair of my face: white hair becomes dark again, regardless if white because of aging or shot white by a laser. I am very unsure of the reason. My idea was that this effect might be closely related to hyperpigmentation: during healing, the skin produces more melanin - and hair cells are basically skin cells.

But i do not see the connection to needling (which i applied successfully on some of my epilation scars).

BTW: needling is regulated to at least some degree, isn’t it? Take for example the needle rollers, especially the high quality products: those with needles long enough to actually penetrate into the dermis are only sold to physicians.

Anyway: tattoo machines without ink is a great idea, and maybe acupuncture needles for small and isolated structures?

Beate

#15

On the issue of white hairs. I really have never seen a change from white to black. What I have observed and apparently this was mentioned by Montagna and Camacho, is that the white hairs grow more quickly than blacks. Therefore, the electrologist first remove white hairs and weeks later, will be eliminated black hair that appear later.

When the client has undergone previous laser sessions, he or she tends to assume that the laser killing black hair and the beam could not read the white hairs. The disappointment is great when they find that their expectations were not met, the black hairs are still there. Some clients come to startling conclusions. One of them even told me that I had turned the white hairs on black, ha ha ha, I said “if I can achieve the miracle, I will be the next to be canonized. No, what has happened is that the laser has changed the length of the hair cycle and now the stage of growth is slower”

I remember that I read that you too have observed this phenomenon, Michael. Has anyone else noticed this change?

#16

A few details to my obervations:

client A, 58, black beard, ather few white ones… When I first met her (as the leader of a local transgender support group), i just had finished my first training in electrolysis. She did 5 sessions with laser and i saw her again with about 80% of the hair shot white. I did indeed concentrate on the white hair. After some time i recognised that increasingly more white hairs had black roots, i.e. were just changing color.

client B, 60, almost completly white beard except a few stray dark whiskers, partly naturally, partly due to laser. We had three full clearences, each in large block sessions, the last one last weekend. During the 2nd clearance i observed these black rooted white hairs and predicted the change of color. 3 months later roughly 50% of the hair is black again, and that is a lot more than the few dark hairs growing here and therefore she came to me.

client C, 68, also almost completly white, no previous laser treatments. We have a fairly regular schedule of 3 hour sessions and have also had roughly 3 full clearances. Again and despite a very visible reduction of the growth there are meanwhile a lot more black hairs than before we started.

Beate

#17

Some thoughts on the dangers of infection from “skin needling.” The needle rollers are individually sterilized and packaged for single use ONLY; they should NEVER be reused and cannot be sterilized again. Some estheticians do the procedure, but in my opinion it’s better off in the hands of physicians who can use deeper needles and of course prescribe anesthetic and such. In the case of skin needling (also called “collagen induction therapy”) you actually WANT to see blood, because the skin has to be penetrated deeply enough to work on the lower layers and stimulate a healing response.

#18

It appears advances have been made since the first discussion of this topic. A concern now is home use (and reuse) of these devices. Are people advised in methods for decontaminating these?

Related to this - 20 some years ago one of my clients had a huge hairy mole removed from the center of her cheek. They sliced, then cauterized the spot. As it healed, the thick hairs returned and I began removing the hairs from this flat but thickened, shiny portion of her skin. We were both amazed that the scarring caused by the mole removal disappeared.

#19

Just stumbled on to this topic…

I actually did the microneedling method in 2010, at home. But I’m used to calling it a dermaroller. I used it on my white stretch marks (I grew pretty fast when I was younger), I honestly forgot how I cleaned it but I believe I used hydrogen peroxide or iso alcohol… I didn’t keep up with the treatments, but my white stretchmarks have definitely faded and my skin did not react in any type of way. Sadly, I don’t have any before or after pictures.

There are threads all over the internet which include people who have derma rolled at home. They use a combination of retin a or tretinoin (yeah, most likely I spelled that wrong haha) to combat stretch marks or wrinkles.

#20

Stretch marks can easily be faded away from inside out if one works to increase one’s nutritional levels of Zinc, Vitamin C, Magnesium and Calcium.