EpiTouch Alexadrite Laser

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Well guys, I got my 24th laser treatment today. I’ve had about 16 Gentlelase Treatments, 1 Lyra Lightsheer, and the rest IPL Palomar Estelux. I am now being treated with EpiTouch Alexandrite laser at 40 Joules. This is a different laser than I"m used to because it treats so fast. It pulses and is almost a constant zapping instead of a larger spot size and a zap every other second. I am used to get treated at about 25 Joules so maybe the power level will actually help create long term reduction because I have seen notta in my previous treatments.

I went to a place here in Kansas City, that also has Thermolosyis…kind of like electrolysis. So if this doesn’t work I may try that. It was only $250 because I talked to the head tech, remember this is Chest, Stomach, Shoulders, Upper arms, and lower part of the neck. Very good deal. Anybody know anything about the EpiTouch? Anybody had good luck with it?

#2

Chuck, im surprised you are continuing with laser even though you havent seen decent results. 24 is alot. I bet you would get a better reduction by doing one clearance with electrolysis then you have with laser. let me explain.

seeing that you have been getting lasered for a while, you’re hair is probably around 80% syncronized, so with a good electrologist using thermolysis you can get a kill rate of around 60-80%. this would mean a reduction of around 48% (assuming the kill rate is 60%) from just your first clearance. After 8 laser treatments ive only had 10-20% reduction on my back and shoulders. This is what convinced me to start getting electrolysis. I hope this helps, cos i know how depressing this can be. I was continuing laser more out of desperation rather than expectation, however now with electrolysis, i can expect results.

#3

chuck, would you mind taking some pictures and showing up what happens right after your treatment, and 3 weeks post treatment, and then 2 months post treatment? it would be especially interesting to see chest and stomach pictures, since those are easier to treat.

#4

Yeah, I think I’m going to end up doing Thermolysis or electrolysis or whatever, but the technician was very adamant that she thinks Laser can still work. That is the reason why I initially called was to ask about the thermolysis. They only charge 60 dollars an hour too which I believe is pretty good. The name of it in Kansas City is Hairfreeway.

How much did it cost you to get your first clearance of your shoulders and arms? How long did it take? How much did yoiu spend?

Lagirl…I don’t have a digital camera right now but the my skin just looks red mainly around the hair follicles but I can tell you that this laser didn’t give me as much irratation as the GentleLase. If they would of zapped me at 40 J on the Gentlelase I’d have redness for about 2-3 weeks. Most of my redness is already gone five days later with this one.

#5

do you know if the pulse is adjustable on this one? what pulse are they using?

#6

I am surprised that anyone is still using the Epitouch alex.

It was originally sold by Sharplan. The company who actually built it was called Light Age and they subsequently sued Sharplan over business issues. They won quite a bit of money, but that’s another story.

Anyway, somewhere circa 1998 or 99, Sharplan was acquired by ESC who continued to manufacture and sell that laser until about 2000 when it kind of went away.

ESC is now called Lumenis and doesn’t sell any alexandrite products.

Unfortunately, if you’ve done 24 treatments and haven’t had good results I would suggest that either one of three things are happening.

  1. You’ve had great results but don’t know it. People sometimes forget how bad the hair was when they started and sometimes have to be reminded how good they’ve done. I have seen people who walk in and tell me that all the hair in their underarm is back and we count 5 hairs on each side. Some of them still refuse to believe that they’ve had any improvement. Whether this is you, only you can say.

  2. You have the wrong hair color (white, blond, or red) and it will never respond.

  3. Your center doesn’t know what they are doing.

If they are using an Epitouch, I tend to lean toward #3.

#7

I am surprised that anyone is still using the Epitouch alex.

It was originally sold by Sharplan. The company who actually built it was called Light Age and they subsequently sued Sharplan over business issues. They won quite a bit of money, but that’s another story.

Anyway, somewhere circa 1998 or 99, Sharplan was acquired by ESC who continued to manufacture and sell that laser until about 2000 when it kind of went away.

ESC is now called Lumenis and doesn’t sell any alexandrite products.

Unfortunately, if you’ve done 24 treatments and haven’t had good results I would suggest that either one of three things are happening.

  1. You’ve had great results but don’t know it. People sometimes forget how bad the hair was when they started and sometimes have to be reminded how good they’ve done. I have seen people who walk in and tell me that all the hair in their underarm is back and we count 5 hairs on each side. Some of them still refuse to believe that they’ve had any improvement. Whether this is you, only you can say.
  1. You have the wrong hair color (white, blond, or red) and it will never respond.
  1. Your center doesn’t know what they are doing.

If they are using an Epitouch, I tend to lean toward #3.

im trying to figure out which 1 of those 3 is his problem before i go in to the laser world myself cheuck what color is your hair??

i mean 24 treatments is just insane

#8

Unfortunately, if you’ve done 24 treatments and haven’t had good results I would suggest that either one of three things are happening.

  1. You’ve had great results but don’t know it. People sometimes forget how bad the hair was when they started and sometimes have to be reminded how good they’ve done. I have seen people who walk in and tell me that all the hair in their underarm is back and we count 5 hairs on each side. Some of them still refuse to believe that they’ve had any improvement. Whether this is you, only you can say.
  1. You have the wrong hair color (white, blond, or red) and it will never respond.
  1. Your center doesn’t know what they are doing.

If they are using an Epitouch, I tend to lean toward #3.

No, in fact, I believe I actually have laser induced hair growth on my shoulders and upper arms. I have at least 200% more hair on this area. I have absolutely NO lessening of hair ANYWHERE except on my stomach. And there I have at THE MOST 10% less. 5 hairs on each side? I have 5 hairs in one square millimeter… you’ve got to be kidding me.

This is the 6th laser treatment center I’ve been to, surely someone can put the laser wand against the skin and push zap, it’s really not rocket science.

I have dark dark brown hair, and some people consider it black even though I am pale white. LASER IS NOT WORKIN FOR ME, I’M SICK AND TIRED OF PEOPLE TELLING ME I’M MAKIN THIS UP.

I am dishearted to hear the Epitouch is such a bad device. Is it alot worse than the Gentlelase? They told me some crap about the Epitouch having a better pulse rate, or something. I do know the joules were higher though.

I would place a wager of 1,000,000 - 1 that this works, I really would. I’m going to be trying thermolysis soon. It’s going to suck balls. I’m going to have to live in a shack, spend ALL of my money on thermolysis. Not have any human contact from the other sex for about two years because I won’t have any hair free periods by using lasers or IPL’s and have scabs all over my body. I can’t wait.

#9

Hey chuck, I myself have had 20 fullbody laser treatments,8 gentlelase,12 apogee 9300 , last treatment was one year ago, thats when I gave up cause there’s no hope for me, skin type 2 dark hair , most of my bodyhair returns week 8 after laser looking the same way it was before.I did get a reduction on legs but still leaves alot of thick hair.

#10

For those of you not getting responses, there is one other possibility I had not considered. But as I think about it, it is a possibility. How old are you?

What I have seen is young guys (who were still going through puberty and growing new hair; which can last into young adulthood) trying to remove hair that was naturally coming in. Combine that with very short intervals and you can get to the point where you do a lot of treatments and see no results, and actually see a worsening.

Otherwise, I have never seen someone not get some improvement and hair reduction with that many treatments. I’ve seen some difficult cases that have required a lot of treatments, but in most situations it was due to technological limitations at the time of treatment. And to put things in perspective, we’ve done over 350,000 treatments since 1997. So it isn’t like we haven’t seen quite a few people.

One other option for those of you who are not getting good results. Get a biopsy of the area to look for destroyed hair. Not terribly expensive and I would think that your center would do it at no charge just to find out if you are having any success. it would help settle the question as to where you are able to destroy any hair at all. Also, very careful hair counts would help.

Finally, an open question to the electrologists. My understanding of electrolysis is second hand based on collaborating with a number of them, but by no means am I an expert. What is the success rate of electrolysis in actually destroying an individual hair? Are there hairs that are resistant? The reason I ask is that as one thinks through the mechanism of hair removal, whether laser or electrolysis, the final “pathway” is the same (not counting galvanic); which is the creation of heat that kills the follicular cells. If I am wrong there please correct me.

But if the final pathway is the same then the response rate should be the same, if the heat generation mechanism are equally effective. Now we know that red, white and blond hair do not generate enough (if any) heat, so they can not be destroyed by laser. But the heat generation of black hair should be equivalent (assuming adequate energy levels). I’m sort of thinking out loud here, but what I am hypothesizing is whether any difference between the two methods is due to differences in heat generation or something intrinsic to the hair. Like I said, just thinking out loud.

#11

the other things that we have previously discussed with the guys above is the possibility of supplements affecting hair growth as well, including some that have not been documented/tested to do so. one thing that several of the people who reported above had in common is taking supplements for body building during workouts etc. have you researched or heard anything about this sslhr?

#12

The only supplements that are going to effect hairgrowth are hormonal…which would be Andro…which is now illegal, among other things. I’ve never used any supplements beyond Whey Protein, and I don’t know how much of an impact other supplements like Andro or hormonal stuff was back in the day because I know a few guys who used them and still have no body hair whatsoever so I think that point may be a big overstated.

#13

HELP!!! It’s been 20 days since my laser treatment with the EpiTouch. I am breaking out EVERYWHERE. I look like a big hive of puss. I haven’t shaved ONE TIME since treatment even. This is horrible. I utilize these treatments mainly to have a hairfree period in between treatments so I can actually have a life and date some girls. How come I have all of these nasty zits? It has never been close to this bad with the Lyra Lightsheer, Gentlelase or the Palomar? Anybody know why the EpiTouch does this?

If this is anything like the irratation I’m going to get when I finally pull the trigger for electrolysis then I’m going to be living in a dungeon for a couple years in my middle 20’s. I really hope this is a blessing in surprise otherwise I am screwed. Hopefully I am all zitty because of the high power settings, and will give me some reduction (ya right, but I can pray can’t I).

Is it so hard in life to just ask to not have a cloak of hair on ur shoulders and upper arms? I mean really, it shouldn’t be these god damn hard. I want to go out there and find a relationship, but I just can’t, I only have 5-7 good weeks where I can “date”. Then after that, the girl either finds out and leaves me, says it’s not cuz of my “hair” or I dump her out of fear she’ll reject me, which has happened everytime a girl has found out about me. I’m almost 24 years old, I’m missing my best years because of this BS. I’ve never even had a real relationship before…I mean I can’t, it just can’t happen. After this I have ONE, count it ONE avenue I can go for for success…and then my life is reduced to a sad sorrow for eternity.

#14

I had same reaction, with LOTS of ingrown-red-cystic acne like bumps all over with an apogee alexandrite. They fade away with time and as hair thins out.
I got less ingrowns/bumps as the power increased if that helps.
The right girl is out there. Plenty of guys who aren’t hairy are thinking the same way as you…they’ll never get anyone. Confidence-patience-it will happen. Most likely when you give up hope, stop trying so hard and don’t care so much anymore.
Eternity is a long fricken time to let hair piss you off <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

#15

Is it so hard in life to just ask to not have a cloak of hair on ur shoulders and upper arms? I mean really, it shouldn’t be these god damn hard. I want to go out there and find a relationship, but I just can’t, I only have 5-7 good weeks where I can “date”. Then after that, the girl either finds out and leaves me, says it’s not cuz of my “hair” or I dump her out of fear she’ll reject me, which has happened everytime a girl has found out about me. I’m almost 24 years old, I’m missing my best years because of this BS. I’ve never even had a real relationship before…I mean I can’t, it just can’t happen. After this I have ONE, count it ONE avenue I can go for for success…and then my life is reduced to a sad sorrow for eternity.

Chuck,

  1. If laser has not been working for you and if you are looking for just a month or so of being hair-free, then do not use such high settings. Don’t let your skin look damaged for that period of time. I also have little success with laser removal (I’m 25 and doing it for 3 years). Now I force the practitioner to use a low setting and that’s it.

  2. Read this posting: http://www.hairtell.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/33960/an/0/page/0#33960

#16

Now I force the practitioner to use a low setting and that’s it.

I have to say that that is interesting. And I don’t doubt that you do that and that he/she complies.

But I would not let anyone tell me how to treat them. We may talk about what they want to accomplish and we would try to accomodate their end state, but I have yet to meet the client who knows better than us what we are doing.

And it isn’t so much a question of ego as it is one of confidence in what we do and what we know. And a sincere desire to do what is best for them rather than just make money. And also trust.

If a client wants to dictate to us what the settings should be we are willing to talk about it. And if what they want is within reason, we are happy to accomodate. But we won’t treat someone if we think it is the wrong thing to do and if they don’t trust us, then we gladly refund them any prepaid treatments they may have and wish them luck. This has happened a few times over the years.

LIke I said, interesting.

#17

I’ve met countless techs who I know equal to or as much as about hair removal. There are some that know what they are talking about, but there are a ton just looking to make a buck. In fact, you SHOULD listen to your patients if they are smart enough to do research on their own and to find out THEIR needs. They ARE paying you.

What really bothers me is the fact that techs are trained by laser companies to have patients come back 6-8 weeks after treatment. This is complete, and utter bullcrap. You can even find charts that show consistent hair growth will come back at about week 9,10, and 11. What I have a problem with is how these techs trick their patients into false results.

Say I know nothing about hair removal. I come in for a consultation, I’m going to believe EVERYTHING I’m told. The tech says, you need to come in so we can hit the hairs in the anagen cycle bla bla bla. Sounds good right? Well let me tell you, the first time I got treated and the hair shed I was in such joy I couldn’t tell you. I thought life was going to go great, and in just a few more treatments, I could get rid of it all. When I came in seven weeks later I still had no hair because it had shed. The tech goes oh my look at that, it really is working you see that. You only have a few here and there. YA IT WAS THE HAIR THAT THE IDIOT MISSED. Bang, another treatment, then antoher treatment. Pretty soon I figured it out. Before long, there was nothing I could do. I had hair growing on my shoulders and upper arms, abruptly out of nowwhere. I did have some hair there, and the tech chose to treat some spots of it. But the hair was barely dark, a few strays here and there…all of a sudden BAM …and that was 25 treatments ago. Since then, I have no other option but to utilize IPL and laser for to utilize a hair free period so I can have some kind of social life.

I don’t even blame alot of these techs, I mean alot of them don’t even know. This is what they are taught…how are they supposed to know better?

#18

Trust should not be given easily. As patients we should question everything. It is a doctor’s/tech’s job to earn that trust through results.
If results happen in 6 treatments my trust is there to go another 6 if my tech says I need it or it will help.
Seems like with laser it takes months to see results and often you still do not see the true outcome until you stop treating for 6 months or so.
Lots of bitterness with people cause they’ve given their trust in laser and it seemed to work but when they stop the true outcome hits them right between the eyes-hard.
Just my ramblings.

#19

[quote]Now I force the practitioner to use a low setting and that’s it.

I have to say that that is interesting. And I don’t doubt that you do that and that he/she complies.

But I would not let anyone tell me how to treat them. We may talk about what they want to accomplish and we would try to accomodate their end state, but I have yet to meet the client who knows better than us what we are doing.

And it isn’t so much a question of ego as it is one of confidence in what we do and what we know. And a sincere desire to do what is best for them rather than just make money. And also trust.

If a client wants to dictate to us what the settings should be we are willing to talk about it. And if what they want is within reason, we are happy to accomodate. But we won’t treat someone if we think it is the wrong thing to do and if they don’t trust us, then we gladly refund them any prepaid treatments they may have and wish them luck. This has happened a few times over the years.

LIke I said, interesting. [/quote]

I am sure you are a well-respected, knowledgable and trustworthy practitioner. However, many are not at all like that. They don’t respond well to patient pain during the treatment and disregard many concerns and questions patients have post-treatment. If Chuck was getting burns on his skin and had years of treatments with no success, then I feel that a low setting is a good option. At least the skin will be clear for a few weeks without the red marks.

#20

The bottom line is that in everything you buy, whether it be a product or service, you have to decide if you can trust the person from whom you are buying. Each one of us have systems for making that judgement. In some cases we don’t and in others we do.

There are a lot of people out there who don’t know what they are doing. And that is true for laser hair removal as it is true for most things. The problem with laser hair removal is that it is a whole lot harder than anyone thinks it is. And that is because 80% of the results come easy. The other 20% or so are incredibly tough. Most of you on this board complaining are in the 20%. You have my sympathies. But I would argue that the reason you haven’t gotten great results is because more than likely you went to the wrong place. At least in most of your cases. Not because laser hair removal couldn’t work for you. This is assuming you are a potential candidate and not someone with blonde, white, or red hair.

When checking out a place, probably the most important question is whether the person who owns the place has been in business at least five years. Why five years? Sort of a gestalt. LHR has been around for 10 years. The first effective laser was released by the FDA in 1997. Everyone who jumped on the laser hair removal bandwagon back then is no longer on it-as far as I know, except for us. The chains that started back then are long gone. Most of the people sold their business or closed down. The docs that started back then may still have a laser they use, but they don’t promote it or advertise it. And in some cases, then don’t even want to use that laser.

There are not that many people actively doing laser hair removal who have been around more than five years. But in those five years they have had the opportunity to deal with the problems that everyone is describing and figure out how to make it better (or they went out of business for one reason or another).

How they trained, etc is not anywhere as important as if they have been around for 5 years or more.

And finally, there is a big difference between listening to a client to learn their needs and letting a client dictate settings and treatment intervals. No amount of money that a client pays is worth the hassles, aggravation, or ethical reality of letting a client determine their treatment when what they want is wrong. And no amount of money or research makes up for experience. But the client is the client and you have to walk a fine line balancing these issues.