Electrolysis Time! A Little Help?

I’m setting up some consultations for electrolysis among local practitioners and some small test treatments. I have a treatment on Thursday with someone I’m concerned about.

She is the sweetest person, with incredibly reasonable rates. She has been in the business for almost thirty years or something. She has lots of clients and a legitimate office (doesn’t prove anything, but it does indicate she’s making enough money to pay rent, and therefore has decent returning customers and/or word of mouth). She also has one great review on Yelp.

Despite all that, she seems so wrong on so many important things. I want to give her a try anyway, because good insertions/treatment and reliable sterilization is more important than book knowledge, right?

But she told me things like the perma-tweeze home tweezer is DEFINITELY permanent removal (all research says that’s not possible, right?)

She also says things like shaving the hair will cause it to go into the anagen phase, so you should shave every day for a few months prior to treatment. She says this will guarantee that every hair she takes out is actively killed. I said I know some telogen/catagen will be treated with my first full clearance and not killed. She said I was wrong about that and that I was quoting info from a “text-book” instead of real life. She said if I shave (not wax or anything else) every day for months, I will have 100% anagen hair. I’m confused.

She also says thermolysis doesn’t work pretty much. Only galvanic really works, and sometimes blend for the toes.

She also said that when she did her own bikini line, it took like twenty hours for the first clearance (that seems slow to me, but I don’t really know).

So, should I be worried? Or does she sounds decent anyway?

Edit: Oh and she uses a Gentronics machine!

Does she have any certificates, licenses or other credentials?

You are absolutely right, electric tweezer devices are not proven to be permanent. This was proven in court by Fino Gior, there is information on this at the bottom of this page.
http://www.electrolysisinformation.com/standards.htm

This is wrong. If she did a full clearance of all hair, and you come back in 4-6 weeks, then what she said would be correct. Shaving the hair does not cause them to go anagen. If this were true, a man who shaves his face everyday would only have anagen hairs, and during his first electrolysis clearance they would be all anagen hairs, which is obviously not true.

I’ll let James handle this one. But I will say I am living proof that thermolysis DOES “work”, since most of the work on me (by me or others) was thermolysis and I have sure have lost a lot of hair!

Might be plausible, if she was using galvanic.

She might be an excellent galvanic electrologist and be able to perform excellent work. But her lack of knowledge is a bit… frightening.

That is a legitimate multi needle galvanic machine.

I wasn’t implying her machine wasn’t legit (I looked it up here first). I was just adding the info because I figured it would be something you guys would ask. Sorry! I don’t know about her licensing, I will ask.

This is wrong. If she did a full clearance of all hair, and you come back in 4-6 weeks, then what she said would be correct. Shaving the hair does not cause them to go anagen. If this were true, a man who shaves his face everyday would only have anagen hairs, and during his first electrolysis clearance they would be all anagen hairs, which is obviously not true.

That’s what I tried to say exactly, only about women’s leg hair. She said yes, all that hair was 100% anagen due to the shaving. She’s so nice, I didn’t want to argue with her anymore. I just said that I’d never heard of that before.

If she is in California - as you appear to be…then she must be licensed.

There are some topics in the world of hair growth and hair removal that are not agreed on by everyone…but I must disagree strongly with several things she has said. Enough to say BIG RED FLAG with this electrologist.

I am only going to say that either someone misunderstood the info on growth phases, or someone doesn’t know about hair growth.

On the modality issue; all forms of electrolysis work, it is the skill of the practitioner in applying them that cause the difference in results. It is the difference in equipment that limits the speed and sometimes the healing times of the hair removal.

I can honestly say that some of the hairtell readers who have worked their way up from the Do-It-Yourself forum seem better fit to do your work than what I am hearing so far. They would at least give you faster work, with as good, or better results.

I know. I’m going to test her out since the appointment is tomorrow and it’s (mostly) free, but I intend to shop around before committing to someone long term. I don’t know how to say “Only do the right side of my tummy please, I’m planning on leaving the left side for another test patch with another electrologist.”

Galvanic is going to be pretty slow, like 1-2 hairs per minute. Something to consider.

Thanks LAgirl, that’s inconvenient, but she says she uses sixteen probes or something at once so maybe that’s like 16 hairs per minute? I’ll have to reconfirm.

How many hairs per minute for blend or thermolysis? I tried to ask her what the average insertion rate is for the two types she does, and she said it’s “100%” which is an answer I didn’t understand, so I assumed she meant they are 100% the same for the two types she’s willing to do…

Here are some excerpts from past conversations on this subject:

Galvanic would remove 1 to 2 hairs per minute as long as the treatment time for the hair did not exceed one minute (it happens) and so it is hard to say how much work could be done with Galvanic. Therefore, we can only assume that one hair per minute would be good, and anything higher is a great rate. Make it a multiple needle/probe electrolysis unit, and you still have to take time to insert, and reinsert probes that fall out before treatment is accomplished. It may take a minute or two to insert the 8 to 32 probes. You then must wait for treatment to take effect, and then remove the probes, and the hairs. Maybe in 5 - 10 minutes you have done a curtain and are ready to set up the next rack. Keep in mind, the more probes, the longer it takes to set up a curtain. 8 probes per curtain, 6 times in an hour is 48 hairs per hour, 16 probes per curtain, 6 times in an hour would be 96 hairs per hour, and 32 probes 6 times would be 192 hairs per hour…

A friend of mine who is (was, as she is now retired) a master instructor in galvanic states that 100 hairs per hour is fast for galvanic, even with a 32 probe curtain…

As for the “blend” thing, there are few places I am orthodox on, and this is one of them. The rational for saying the statistical limit of blend is 8 hairs per minute is simple mathematics based on an orthodoxical starting point. (If one doesn’t share that orthodoxy, one may say that “Blend” has the same statistical limit as thermolysis)That point is this, if your treatment time is less than 7 seconds inside the follicle, you are in fact practicing thermolysis with the galvanic current only serving to keep the needle clean. Sixty seconds divided by seven seconds treatment time equals 8.57 insertions per minute with no time alloted for removal of hairs…

To get some perspective, the statistical limit of Thermolysis is 30 - 40 hairs per minute, or 1,800 - 2,400 hairs per hour. It seems that many electrolysis practitioners are working at 5 hairs per minute, or 300 per hour.

In the end, when it comes to hair per hour, galvanic seems to average around 60 hairs per hour, while blend seems to average around 250 hairs per hour and thermolysis operators seem to average at least 300 hairs per hour, or more.

For a LONG discussioin of these factors read this thread:

http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/22979/1.html

Thanks so much James. I really think I’d prefer thermolysis then, especially for the finer hairs on my tummy. I have no idea how to tell her this without her trying to argue with me that it doesn’t work. Should I just go to this one appointment and then not come back? Or should I actually TELL her I’m not interested in any more appointments?

I think you need a lady to answer this question. The one part of this industry that I am not equipped to answer questions on is the female perspective.

When someone asks me to work on them in galvanic only, I do it. I offer to show them how thermolysis will work faster, but as long as they want galvanic, I make the extra money working slow, and deal with the boredom of it all. (Usually, when they see the difference between the thermolysis sample treatment site, and the galvanic treatment sites, they ask me to start doing everything in thermolysis.)

It sounds like she doesn’t offer thermolysis - and if she does, she is EXPERIENCED with multiple-needle-galvanic (MNG).

Since you are the client, you select the practitioner. After getting your consultation all you have to do is say, “Let me figure out what I am going to do.” OR “I’ll call if I decide to go with galvanic.”

Okay, thanks so much for all your advice everyone!!

I went to her, and she was very nice. I liked her personality and set up a lot, and she gave a very thorough consultation. It went much faster than I thought, because she decided to try both galvanic AND blend on me, and I preferred blend so she used that the rest of the hour. I felt a lot of plucking towards the end (she was clearly trying to hurry because her next patient was calling and buzzing the back room multiple times.)

She said that almost every hair she removed was not in the anagen phase. She felt really bad, she said she said that almost every single one was telogen. :frowning: She found one hair that she said was anagen and held it up and was “Finally! We actually GOT one!” I’m not gonna lie, that was depressing to hear.

Now, I have an appointment with another lady that Dee recommended to me on Monday. She’s more expensive, but apparently really good and fast. I just found out she actually RUNS the only electrolysis school out here! I have high hopes for her.

I may use this new place for the majority of my hair, and then see the other lady for galvanic on thicker hairs.

If the first lady does both galvanic and blend, I don’t see the reason to use galvanic at all. Just ask her to do blend on you.

Update: Had my appointment with Johanne Fortier (recommended by Dee), and I looove her. I recommend her to anyone in southern California. I dunno what modality she decided to use on me (oops, maybe picoflash or something super fast), but she just inserted the probe and instantly pulled out the hair.

I felt almost NOTHING. I was worried she didn’t have the thing turned on, but then I felt no plucking either, so she was obviously truly killing the hairs. She said most of them were anagen and she’s not sure why the other lady said they were all telogen. Whoo!

She was pretty fast. We only did half an hour because of a schedule conflict she had, but she’s letting me finish my treatment tomorrow.

And since she runs a school, I can get the less important areas (arms or legs) treated by her supervised students with the same machine (top of the line) for only $20 per hour. Wheee!

^oh my, you are so lucky hun!

i wish we had electrologists like that in the UK :frowning:

hope all your treatments go well, all the best! xx

I recommend Johanne Fortier as well, to all those who can find her, and nail down an appointment with her.

She is also one of my favorite dinner guests as well :grin:

Sounds like you found a winner. Where in Orange County is she located?

I’ve also been to Robin Harris who works out of an office in Westwood, but also teaches in Long Beach (so maybe she works there as well? There is a school in Long Beach you may want to look up). She is also great and charged around $65 when I went a few years back. She uses the new Apilus machine and the fastest thermolysis and flash methods.

I talked to her husband and he mentioned he reads these forums all the time, he even wrote down my user name! So if he’s reading this, HI!

stoppit: Yeah, I’m lucky. She doesn’t have a website, so if I hadn’t been on here, I never would have known about her. Also apparently for body work there are students who are as low as $5 per hour and do reliable work (slowly, but for $5 an hour I’m not complaining).

James: Saw her again today, and I told her about that photo. Hehehe. It’s such a small world, eh?

LAgirl: She is in Santa Ana. Only a 10-15 minute drive from me. Johanne uses the newest Apilus too (Platinum, I believe it’s called), and I confirmed she used picoflash on me. Apparently she usually only takes new clients on referral (she’s busy with the school), so if she ever has trouble scheduling me I will consider the long beach place. The drive is a bit far, but doable. Thanks!

This really goodnews and the great rates are a big bonus :slight_smile:

Best wishes,

Pokka x