Electrolysis response rates

Andrea · November 6, 2002, 10:42am

Since I put my information stating that electrolysis is permanent for most, some people have questioned how I came to that statement. The correspondence below was with Miss Badeges, Teacher/Director of Vienna Electrolysis & Skin Academy (http://www.viennaskin.com).

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Hi Andrea,

I just want to address one thing on your site. The fact that you state on
there that electrolysis is permanent for “most” instead of “all”. I also
saw that on the site it says that around 10% of people don’t respond to
electrolysis.

I wonder if you’ve had another electrologist address this. Anyway just to
let you know that electrolysis flash is only effective when hairs are in
anagen stage. So…for those people who keep getting treatments when their
hairs are dead can keep going for the rest of their lives and NEVER see
results. It’s because they’re doing it wrong, not because of some 90/10
response rate (with all due respect to how you came up with this finding,
sincerely really). Another reason is hormonal imbalances. Everytime the
electrologist takes out hairs, new ones are being made. But…there is only
a limited number of follicles (even though on the face, it seems virtually
unlimited) so some day these people will respond too. Also, this can be
proved that if the same client were to stop electrolysis, they would notice
the hairs building up on their face due to more and more being made by the
hormonal imbalance. Any comments, please share with me. My experience is
limited, but as a teacher this is what I teach and this is all I’ve ever
been exposed to despite all my studies, experiments, experience with
clients, reading and researching. I’ve never been exposed to the theory of
“only 90% of people respond to electrolysis” because it defies logic. Here
is why: Since it is a SURGERY, everyone responds to it. Given the hair is
alive when treated, it will never (can never) come back since it has been
surgically removed. I also wonder if you’d like to inquire about this
w/Fino Gior or James Harvey (respected and known people in this field,
unlike me who is fairly new compared to them … I consider them the bigwigs
of this field, lol). Sincerely, Miss B <hr /></blockquote>I responded:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Hi Miss B–

The data is based on published clinical data from Dr. J Verdich in 1979 (he debunked Removatron) and Dr. R.N. Richards in 1986 (author of the electrolysis textbook):

http://www.hairfacts.com/medpubs/electro/verdich.html

http://www.hairfacts.com/medpubs/electro/richards86.html

http://www.hairfacts.com/medpubs/electro/richards95.html

Take care,
Andrea
<hr /></blockquote>She replied;

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> This Danish paper reports 90% of 56 women with facial hypertrichosis were
satisfied with treatment, but most found it expensive and slow.
–>This deosn’t state that the 10% didn’t respond. Just said that they were
not satisfied. This is purely emotional, non-scientific so not reliable,
since, as you know, most of the public is ignorant when it comes to hair
removal (which is where quacks come in “kaCHING!”).

93% of the patients improved.
–>The other 7% didn’t improve because they have a hormonal imbalance. Not
because electrolysis “didn’t work on them”. A hormobal imbalance is the
responsibility of a good endocrinologist and hormonal regulation is out of
the hands of the electrologist. Electrologists can only REMOVE what’s
there, but not prevent new ones from coming. To do that the hormonal
imbalance has to be fixed.

And the third article says it for me: but women with hirsutism often
require concomitant management of their hormonal problems.

Hope this reaches a point! I write it in good faith. Sincerely, MissB <hr /></blockquote>I responded:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Hi Miss B–

The way I state it on my site: “Two studies, one small and one large, respectively demonstrated that 90% to 93% of consumers have satisfactory results.”

http://www.hairfacts.com/methods/electro/electrolysis.html

Dr. Richards calls the 7% “nonresponders” for whom electrolysis alone will not work. I hold laser to the same standard, where nonresponders have been reported at much higher levels (28-29% among ideal patients in two ruby studies):

http://www.hairfacts.com/medpubs/rubymed.html

I believe it’s important for consumers to understand that a hair removal method by itself may not be enough. I discuss oral medications separately, and I frequently suggest the those not seeing results from electrolysis look into getting an endocrinology workup.

The easiest way to compare effectiveness is to remove as many variables as possible. Including concomitant hormonal treatment in an assessment of electrolysis response rates simply hides the fact that electrolysis alone is not enough for some consumers.

I consider that to be misleading.

I’d like to include your comments and my responses on my hairtell forums. I think this is a valuable discussion to share with the public. Is this OK? I can do so anonymously if you’d like. Thanks for taking the time to discuss this. It helps me to clarify a very complicated issue and explain how I arrived at certain statements.

Take care,
Andrea <hr /></blockquote> <blockquote>quote:<hr /> Hi Andrea,

Your statements make sense now that you’ve explained it to me. But without
the explanations the public will (most likely) be lead to a different
conclusion…so… I agree that it’s a good idea to share this discussion
with the public on your forum. Instead of being listed as “anonymous”, I’d
like to be listed as "Miss Badeges, Teacher/Director of Vienna Electrolysis
& Skin Academy www.viennaskin.com", lol, if you are not ok with that please
let me know…I guess you can take out some things =(.

Take care, MissB <hr /></blockquote>

wtagg · November 7, 2002, 2:44pm

I have been having electrolysis for 29years. Neither my doctor or gynocologyst can give any medical cause for my excess facial hair. (I have a small fybroid and small ovarian cysts) Can this problem be hereditory? Some female relatives seemed to have this problem. I suspect that some therapists in the past, accidentally plucked the hairs without adequate treatment and that may have made matters worse. Therapists also say because my hair is fair, it’s difficult to see the root. I have asked for the power/voltage to be increased thinking that this may work better. Is there any danger to this? Thanks

Andrea · November 8, 2002, 2:59pm

Unwanted hair is cause by a variety of factors, and it sounds like you are dealing with the two most common, heredity and hormonal issues. You might ask about a referral to an endocrinologist to see about your hormone levels if you haven’t had blood work done recently.

Practitioners vary widely in skill, so it’s essential to go to someone recommended by a client who is done and happy. Turning up the energy can help, but it means the electrologist needs to be very skilled to avoid scarring you.

You need to find the very best person in your area, which is not always easy.

James_W_Walker_VII · December 1, 2002, 6:58pm

One must understand that Electrolysis is 100% effective when performed properly. The reason why electrolysis alone can not give some people satisfaction is because while removing the hairs that are there is one thing, the amount of hair the body can replace that hair with, and the rate at which the replacement hairs may come is variable with the reason the person has superfluous hair.

The average square inch of skin has 1,000 follicles. Typically speaking we are looking to remove 100 hairs in that space, which are visible at a rate of 33 hairs per growth phase. At this rate, we can remove all hairs in 9 months if we have perfect appointment scheduling.

Now if the body is “recruiting” non-hair bearing follicles to begin hair production, then the question is, At what rate is the body replacing the follicles permanently treated by electrolysis with formerly non-hair bearing follicles, or accelerating the vellus hairs to become terminal hairs? If the body recruits 100 hairs per year in a steady fashion then it will take ten years of constant treatment to get to the point where this person has seen all 1,000 follicles become terminal hair bearing follicles, and had them treated. Once this stage is reached, the body can not grow any more hair in this square inch of skin no matter what imbalances are continuing to exist in the body.

Most hormonal imbalances don’t have such a high rate of replacement. It is more like 15 hairs per square inch, per year. In this case, it would take a lifetime to ever get anywhere near seeing, and clearing out half the hairs in any square inch of skin. The problem we have as electrologists, is the person only knows that they started with 5 visible hairs per square inch all year round, and after some small period of time where they had no hair, they are once again looking at 5 hairs per square inch, although they can not see that these hairs are in different follicles located in the general area of those formerly treated, but definitely not the hairs we have permanently removed!

So, to wrap it up:

If you have a constant number of hairs, electrolysis will bring you to permanently being as bare as you dare, anyplace, anywhere, as long as you have your work done on the proper schedule so that the most Anagen hairs are treated every time.

If you have hair growth that is dependent on some change in the body that is slowly recruiting follicle after follicle in a rolling random fashion, the best way to treat it is to remove the hair growth factor in addition to removing the hairs that have already been recruited. If one does not do this, one has to treat the hairs until the 1,000 follicle per square inch limit has been reached by both the recruitment factor, AND the electrologists probe.

Oh, and for those who are wondering, no, we can’t treat a non hair bearing follicle in advance, as a preventative measure.

I hope that this helps you all on this topic.

James in Buffalo NY

James_W_Walker_VII · June 19, 2007, 10:41pm

Here is a perfect example of a post that answers a FAQ we answer again and again and again.

One of my longer explainations of how one can spend a long time doing electrolysis and never “finish.” Of course, the other way that can happen is if you are not clearing enough hair to ever get full clearance, or your electrologist is not using enough skill or treatment energy to get the job done, or maybe the method employed is a scam like so called Mycrolysis, Trans-Dermal, Super-Phaser Gold, and so on.