Sorry for this type of post as I see it a lot and I am sure the top posters/moderators are probably sick and tired of getting these types of questions, but I have searched a bit for any electrologists in the Lehigh Valley, PA area (Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton) but cannot seem to find any that are willing to treat male shoulders and back. Someone names hotfuzz posted a similar question a while back but didn’t get a response, so…
A little background:
I went to a certain doctor in Allentown, PA who uses a Candela GentleLASE. I believe I racked up 15 treatments between October of 2005 and January of 2008. There was a 6-7 month lull between the 6th and 7th treatment as the 6th treatment was end of the initial package deal. But I went back because the hair grew back and we experimented over the course of the next 8 treatments with different spot sizes and joule settings. While the results of laser are great for the 2 1/2 months after a treatment, the hair, for me, just grew back. At this point, it has basically all grown back and even gotten worse on the shoulders, though some areas seem to have thinned (lats). Now, I was considered an “ideal” candidate (pale skin and dark hair), but I think I’ve given laser enough of a chance. I just don’t think it works for me.
So, I’ve been trying to read up on electrolysis and it seems that is the only option for me, though the process will be slower.
If there are no skilled electrologists in this area that any one knows about, I might even consider travelling a bit. Would there be any merit to doing a marathon session somewhere that does them?
And as you may find as you read these forums, many of us are saying:
You mean LASER can cause INCREASED hair growth on shoulders?
You mean men have a hard time finding anyone to do work on them?
You mean it is hard to find out how many electrologists there are in your area?
WHO KNEW!
Yes, marathon sessions would do you good, if you can find someplace that does them, and is willing to treat men.
James, do you treat male backs/shoulders? I visited your website and you state that you specialize in beards and transgender.
From where I am to where you are, it is about 6 hours by car, and from what I’ve been reading on electrolysis, I’d have to be making regular appointments than I was with laser, but how do the marathon sessions come into play? Apparently, they serve to get an area clear of all visible hair? But then, hair grows in cycles, so you will have to continue to go back to get the hairs that are changing growth phases and are becoming visible. But, how frequently must one be treated ?
You will need to live up to your moniker in order to go the route of electrolysis. Take a look at my treatment diary post. I just updated it with photos and times.
I do not think you want to spend your weekends driving–it’s bad enough how many weekends I’ve killed with a good practitioner in my area.
Yeah, I’ve taken a look at your treatment diary. Your progress looks really good judging from the photos. So, you’ve been doing electrolysis since October 2007? About 3 times a week? That’s a solid 7 months now.
Yes, I’ve become aware that going the route of electrolysis will require a good deal of patience, but I feel like I’ve been pretty patient with laser, given that it is “supposed” to achieve faster results.
But, I do see your point, Bryce. Any suggestions? I know, find an excellent local practitioner, right? ha ha ha.
Bryce, you have more hair than the average back, shoulder and upper arm cases I see. I do have one client that is a spitting image of your hair density and patterns of growth. He flys in about every six weeks for a marathon session and then see’s his electrologist weekly to maintain the area that was cleared. I work with another electrologist, so he has two of going at it for a period of two days. This is very hard and an extreme example of the hours of effort it takes for men with this amount of hair. Without going back over all your posts, I hope that this being done with microflash thermolysis in auto-sensor mode.
I feel for you men and wonder when or if there will be an easier, quicker way to handle this amount of hair. I understand that laser induced hair growth can be a horrible outcome, but geez when I see this amount of hair, I’m thinking that at least it may be worth the gamble as it appears that every hair is stimulated anyway. That excludes you, gama, because laser hair stimulation is what brought you here to hairtell. If laser can affect even 50% of the hair permanently, then there would be less time on the table to finish with electrolysis.
This is a neat experiment you are conducting bryce and thank you for those great pictures of comparison!
It’s microflash on an aplius senior II, using a pedal. Frankly, I don’t see the benefit of the auto sensor as it has been explained to me. My pro posited that it just senses the moisture in the skin then counts down from a specified timer until it fires. Seems like one would have the potential to waste time with this method because it’s adding one more element of randomness (hoping you will be at the papilla at the right time). Just step on the foot pedal when you feel you are in the right place is what she tells me, and it seems rational.
Okay, I finally got my camera working. Here are some images:
I have very fair, freckled skin, and the hair is pretty dark I would say (compared to my skin), so I was supposed to be an ideal candidate for laser, but as you can see, it’s really done nothing.
Your hair is pretty fine. So you’re not an ideal candidate for laser. The color of the skin is only one aspect. Do you know what the highest settings they tried were on GentleLASE? I would assume you can easily do highest of 20J at 18mm.
Lagirl,
Yes, several sessions were done at 20joules on an 18mm spot size with the GentleLASE. We even went up to 28joules on a 15mm spot size as well. We even tried 30joules (18mm) on a GentleYAG, thinking that the darker melanin in the freckles were absorbing the light of the laser, but the results were not as long lasting as they were on the GentleLASE (about 2.5 months) and it wasn’t necessarily the case that the hairs that were growing back were withing the diameter of a freckle.
So, you wouldn’t say I am an ideal candidate for laser? I was told I was (but maybe they were biased…$$$ ?)
The only other thing I can think of is that, though in the pictures, the hair appears dark, though fine as you say, at certain angles and in certain lighting conditions, there is a reddish/blondish tinge to the hairs, which I’m wondering is also making the hairs impervious to the laser light (as red and blond hairs do not respond to laser, right?). But for the most part, the hairs do appear more dark than light, and the doctor who was performing the laser on me didn’t think that reddish/blond tinge was the issue.
Wasting time with auto sensor mode!!?? It is quite the opposite! Two reasons why performing electrolysis in auto sensor mode using microflash thermolysis is important for large areas:
One can go faster and thus, more hairs are removed per
minute. This is highy desireable as one can imagine.
Inserting the correct size of probe every .5 seconds
means everything to getting an area like the back or
forearms cleared ASAP. With auto sensor mode, we’re
talking reaching heights of 450-800 hairs per hour.
Others may go do better than me, but that’s my range.
By not using the footswitch, it is less fatguing for an
electrologist to do marathon sessions. She/he stays
comfortable and thus, can work longer. If electrologists
would just try doing this, they would be wondering why
they weren’t using this feature on their epilators a
long time ago.
I never use a footswith. For challenging areas like under the chin and neck, eyebrows, I simply set the timer to a 1.2 - 1.5 insertion delay.
It is simply wonderful to have auto sensor mode available and most every epilator manufacturer has this option, thank God.
Not to start a logic war here, but you are not giving me a reason why it’s faster. You’re just saying it is. I at least gave a hypothesis why it’s slower–the random component of hoping you are at the papilla at the exact time the timer finishes counting down might not go your way 100% of the time and you have to restart that insertion. A foot pedal gives you control to apply the current exactly when you want and doesn’t leave it up to chance.
If, on the other hand, auto sensor mode could detect the papilla itself, that would be wonderful because then that would be a true advantage–reaching the correct place every time rather than relying on the pro’s best estimate of where it is.
Obviously my pro doesn’t have fatigue issues, either. She gets much more sore in her hands stretching the skin than rocking her foot.
Either way, she gets in the high end of that range of number of hairs treated, so I guess it doesn’t matter much.
A video would explain it all, but I can’t direct you to one. If your electrologist has auto sensor mode, which I think she does, she can demonstrate. My auto sensor is usually set to anywhere from .5 to 1.2 depending on the area. Beeps signal you to go and stop or abort an insertion, with the Apilus’s.
It’s faster because that is one less thing you have to concentrate on while doing a treatment. It’s fatiguing if you see 6-10 people a day and cummulatively are making
3,000 - 5,000 insertions within that 8 hour period with a footswitch. If your electrologist gets the job done with her footswitch, then there is nothing to complain about especially if she has decent speed.
I am reaching the dermal papilla with each insertion because I have delivered permanent hair removal to many, many people over the years. You don’t have that outcome if one is not performing electrolysis correctly. Simply put, I set the auto sensor to a level that is comfortable for me to make a proper insertion before the current releases. The setting all depends on the area being treated. Once I get into the rhythm, I can lower the time delay,if I feel that I can move a little faster. I’m always in control and comfortable. Quality eyewear and lighting figures into the speed factor as well and I don’t like to chit chat during a treatment because one needs to focus when the auto sensor is enabled.
It’s all really quite simple and takes some getting use to, however, the learning curve is not all that long for those that want to try it. If an electrologist gives it a decent try and doesn’t like it, well, then that’s why the epilator comes with a footswitch.
gamansuru, a truly ideal candidate has all of the following: very light skin, very dark hair, very coarse hair. You only have the first part of it. It sounds like the combination of your hair being too fine and too light is what’s making laser ineffective. Electrolysis is your only permanent option.
Did the doctor pluck some hairs and look at the color of the roots in order to predict that the color of the hair was not an issus?
Dfahey,
No, the doctor didn’t pluck any hairs and look at the color of the roots. What should they look like? Do you agree that my hair is too fine and not dark enough?
Lagirl,
At the time, I thought that my hair was dark and coarse enough, but maybe compared to others, it really isn’t. But, at least to me it appears dark!
