Educating Doctors About Electrolysis?

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
1

Hi folks,

I just wondered if anyone (pro or consumer) has run into the surprising lack of knowledge about the benefits of electrolysis in doctors.

I’ve posted my story elsewhere, but I’m a woman who has excessive facial hair I’m getting rid of, now, using electrolysis. However not once, in the 5 different doctors I’ve seen over the years, did any of them recommend electrolysis – even as a complimentary treatment to prescription drugs like Spiro or Vaniqua.

In my most recent visit to an endocrinologist this week, (who is great and very knowledgable about Androgen excess, PCO, etc.), she right away suggested laser treatments for my face.

I told her I have been getting electrolysis done, in part, because I didn’t want to take a chance with more hair growing because of laser and I want permanent reduction.

She seemed to think electrolysis was – I don’t know – sort of old fashioned and an odd choice, since laser is supposed to be so great.

I remember reading an article about how referrals to professional electrolysis should be at the ready for any Endo or PCP who sees patients with excessive facial hair, but it doesn’t seem like there’s much of an outreach/education campaign to do that.

It is because electrolysis is dying out, or they are all pretty busy anyway without the referrals, or am I just ignorant on what’s really going on out there? (Or all three, lol!).

2

You are not ignorant. It is the doctors who are! Yes, I said it. Doctors are IGNORANT!

Now to explain. Doctors only know what is taught to them, and what they choose to persue outside of what is spoon fed them. What is pushed is LASER, and they never bother to look further than that. If they did, at the worst, they would find out that Electrolysis is still “The Gold Standard Of Hair Removal” and that LASER can give quick results for some, but not all. Since they don’t look past the LASER rep trying to sell them a machine, they often never find out anything other than what he tells them.

Then there is professional slander. Electrolysis organizations have to periodically threaten legal action for situations such as the Merc Manual changing its description of electrolysis to say that it is too painful and NOT PERMANENT and listing LASER as “The most effective modern method”. They changed it back to better reflect the truth, but how many people read that falsehood and will never believe anything else?

I will allow Dee Fahey to continue this discussion, as she has a very high level of understanding of this particular question.

I will just say that although I had a doctor once argue me that LASER was the thing and electrolysis was outdated, leading me to ask her to get back to me in a year. A year later she saw me in a supermarket and litterally ran out of there rather than talk to me! Later, on the phone she admitted that that all the LASER treatments she paid for her mother and herself did NOT get her to full 100% clearance. Still, she doesn’t seek electrolysis, and she doesn’t refer her clients for it either. Instead she just tells people that nothing can clear up unwanted hair satisfactorily. SHEESH!

3

I really don’t think Dr’s are educated enough regarding Electrolysis…I remember telling my Dr that I was having Electrolysis and she basically told me I was wasting my money, and I’d make it worse. Perhaps she was baseing her comment upon patients (sp?) that have had Electrolysis, with no results…whether it be, lack of skilled treatments or not having regular enough treatments and patience!

Just another reason I’m thankful for this site! :@)

4

They don’t teach hair removal in med school. Unfortunately, most doctors do not go out of their way to do independent research on the issue. So, most are just hearing whatever is being preached to them by rich laser companies. Independent electrologists don’t have the power or money to do a campaign like that.

5

Chicagogal, oh sweet one, you raised some very good questions. James, max and lagirl explained it all very well.

This whole scenario reminds me in legal terms of people that have been unjustly accused and have had their name dragged through the mud by the media and special interest groups only to be acquitted of all accusations. They are then left asking the famous Ray Donovan question, “Where (which office) do I go to get my reputation back?” The Duke lacrosse players understand that question well. We electrologists do too because we have been smeared, worldwide.

The biggest part of why I spend my time hanging out on hairtell is to spread the good news of professional electrolysis care and to throw ice water on the hot hyper’s and self-promoters of methods that cannot possibly permanently remove hair of any color, on any color of skin, of any thickness. Smart hair removal consumers win because they research their options and choose electrolysis or laser if they truly want to be rid of hair. Many times they do both. Many times they start out with laser and discover that it ain’t gonna take them to where they desire. It is only then that they brighten up and want to learn more about electrolysis.

Many clients verbalize that they are scared to get electrolysis because they don’t want to be scarred and it’s too slow and costs too much. That’s what they read in Oprah’s mag, so it must be true. That’s what they hear from their doctors, so that’s the last word of authority for sure!

Ah, now for our dear doctor’s. I’m from a family of doctor’s and they never heard about electrolysis, but they are not in specialty’s that hair removal would ever come up in conversation. Even though my husband is a family physician, he said that he never heard the words ‘electrolysis - permanent hair removal’ in his medical school and residency training. He does not see those words in his medical journals or in his CME courses. He sure does hear about Vaniqa and laser, though. He only knows about electrolysis because he’s married to an electrologist. Doctors are only informed about hair removal when the cute little drug rep bombards them with Vaniqa and laser information at their offices on a daily basis. Many need to supplement their incomes with laser hair removal because they are told what they have to charge for their services even though their overhead expenses continue to rise.

My first office was located within doctor offices. I worked with three doctors and a nurse practitioner. I only got about 1-2 referrals from those doctors. Most of clients came from my poster in the waiting room. My second office was also within a doctor’s office, in the next suburb. I worked with 8 doctors, 5 women and 3 men. I received a total of 5 referrals when I was there. Most of my client calls came from the poster and business cards in the waiting room. Close to 95% of my clients come from WORD OF MOUTH, not doctors.

The physicians I know well, including the one I live with, work 60-80 hours a week, including most weekends. They don’t care about hair. They don’t have the energy to care about things that don’t kill you. I am a bit surprised that more family physicians, endocrinologists, dermatologist or any specialty that deals with women’s health are not targeted by the state and national electrology associations. We need these physicians to understand a few helpful concepts related to PERMANENT hair removal since they are on the front line with people putting trust in their authority.

We have fallen out of favor since the advent of laser, being that it is promoted as fast, painless, non-scarring, inexpensive, etc. and the average person sucks it all in with great happiness and the laser producers, researchers, doctors make money, so their happy, too. Even if you tell the client your hair is too blond or your skin is too dark or your hair is too fine for laser, they seem hell bent on trying it anyway! Many electrologists are now doing laser and would certainly choose to use their laser when appropriate and then back up the hair removal plan with electrolysis, when needed. And why wouldn’t they - laser is not as technical to do, it’s easy on the back and eyes and they can make more money, faster. But at least the electrologist that does laser knows more than any physician about hair and skin, so that’s a plus.

For quite some time the American Electrology Association leadership has been hearing from several electrologists working in the trenches, “WE COULD USE SOME HELP DOWN HERE!” They responded with something called “The Working Wonders” campaign that allowed electrologists to purchase an advertising kit for their own use in their own communities. It’s still available but recently, the AEA membership received an e-mail announcing that “the AEA has begun a campaign to broaden the scope of consumer awareness for electrolysis”. There will be press releases, articles on the internet and in major magazines, newspapers, radio targeting the health and beauty industries. Doctors and nurse practitioners are crucial to the process for advising hirsute women and girls, and it would be wise to underline and highlight the good news of what a modern electrologist can do these days with the medical community especially.

Any Hairtell readers that have had a life-altering esperience with electrolysis are invited and encouraged to contact Pasty Kirby, CPE, Executive Director of The American Electrology Association at:

[email protected]

I’m sure she would appreciate your stories and you, tiny, one person, YOU, could really offer a powerful, accurate testimony about your electrolysis experience that would help the electrology profession. We could use your help. True, we don’t have the big bucks and clout that the laser industry has in place, worldwide. They are constantly stomping on a tried and true proceedure that really, really works and in turn, this translates into stomping on YOU the consumer. Electrolysis has and will continue to help bring hairy people success and happiness just like it has been doing for the last 130 years. The big difference today, in the 21st century, is that our equipment/tools are so much better, that is, if electrologists CHOOSE to upgrade and stay polished with continuing education.

Thanks to Miss Andrea, we all have a place to gather and communicate about these issues.

Dee

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Last year, my state association did invite local physicians and nurses to our annual seminar, FREE OF CHARGE, and not one of them took advantage of it. For the nurses, 5 of our 10 hours would have been approved for their CEU’s.

The problem with doctors started long before lasers. But lasers have made it worse. In my opinion, the multitude of clients that have gotten fantastic results with electrolysis never tell their doctors. The only time most doctors hear of electrolysis is when a patient is complaining that it didn’t work (because I’m too lazy to go when I’m supposed to) or they have a scar (because I constantly picked at a scab).

My practice started in a dermatologist’s office almost 30 years ago. Because he saw a need and was educated enough to know what worked, he sought out the original owner of my business, bought the equipment and sent her to school. It didn’t hurt that he also had a wife and 2 hirsute daughters and he wanted free electrolysis for them. I couldn’t possibly begin to count how many of his patients he referred to us over the years. He was nothing like today’s doctors. Even my own physician tried to tell me electrolysis leaves scars, at which point I dared him to find one on my face. 'Nuff said.

7

Thank you all for your wonderful, passionate responses.

After I told my endo I was getting electrolysis treatments, she looked at my face closely and and said it looked great, and then asked me, “Aren’t you afraid of scarring?” I told her, no, I’ve been very pleased with my results (and I haven’t had any scarring thanks to the helpful post-treatment advice here and from my electrologist.)

I’m such a passionate advocate now for electrolysis thanks to this site and my treatments so far that I was just so disappointed that doctors are missing a chance to help more women get relief from excessive facial hair. Especially considering how psychologically devastating it can be … and how financially draining it can be to get laser treatments that don’t work.

This site is unique on the internet and I’m grateful every day that it exists.

I’m glad to hear, too, that there will be a more high profile campaign to get the word out. I can imagine most successful electrology clients don’t want to proclaim, “Hey I was a hairy woman and now I’m smooth and clear!” They probably just want to put this behind them (I know I do!) and get to feeling beautiful again.

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Actually, the funny thing is that one of my most vocal clients have found that we were so successful, that no one believes she ever had a problem. As you can imagine, she never allowed any pictures to be taken that showed how hairy her face was. She did not even allow me to do a “Before” picture in the office. Now, she wishes she had becasue no one believes she was not born with the cocoa butter skin she has now.

I have a transsexual client who had 500 hairs per square CENTIMETER (that is not a typo) and she now is moving away to another state safely cleared so that she won’t need to see me anymore. At this point, no one believes that she ever had any serious beard hairs, but we have a before picture to show, although since all the hairs were white and clear, the picture only shows half the story.

In any event, we do need more word of mouth to get the gospel of permanent hair removal out.

9

In my opinion, there are three reasons that electrology tales have a negative twist. First, there are some poorly trained electrologists out there. The results of their treatments are poor. It is difficult for the consumer to know when they have found a good electrologist. Second, older epilators and some techniques result in ineffective treatments and damaged skin. The third reason is that clients do not follow their electrologists treatment plan recommendation and they do not follow directions after treatment (as James mentioned). When they do not follow up, they won’t get the results. When they put their hands and other stuff on their skin, they may end up with skin problems.

I don’t know if it’s true, but I’ve heard that someone who has had a bad experience will tell more people about that bad experience than the person who had a good experience. Many of my clients are very secretive about their hair problem. They aren’t going to tell anyone about it or the results.

10

Hi:

I think that doctors in general probably don’t know much more than the general public about the benefits of electrolysis. The ones who really know the most about it are the people who have personal experience with having their own hair removed.

Most people who go for electrolysis are women and in general they are ashamed of the fact they had facial hair in the first place to talk about it.

I don't think that individual doctors should be saying anything negative about electrolysis if they haven't had personal experience with it. I have had that personal experience and can say that it worked for me. When I first started out though it seemed like an impossible task, but perseverence and pursuit of a dream spurred me onward to success. It really does work, but it is something you have to stick with the schedule on, and not give up too easily on.

Alicia

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The problem with educating doctors is they are so rock headed about anyone telling them anything unless the person talking to them either has more years in school than them, and/or more money than them, and/or represents a large business firm, in which case it could be a skid row bum, freshly shaven, and put in an off the rack suit from sears.

Don’t think that we have not tried to talk to them. The American Electrolysis Association used to even print up literature for electrologists to buy and give to doctors. Most of them got thrown in the trash without anyone other than maybe the secretary reading them.

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I think doctors are reluctant to send people to an electrologist if they haven’t had positive feedback from patients that have had electrolysis. As noted above from Choice and Barbara, women don’t say things to their doctor’s like, “Oh, by the way, I had hair all over my face and on my nipples and now it’s gone thanks to my electrologist”. Transgender clients don’t say to their doctors, “Wow, I’ve had my beard removed over the last two years and look how beautiful my skin looks.” Men don’t say to their doctors, “I had my ear hair removed, my back hair removed and my beard shaped and look at me now, doc”.

This is a matter of word of mouth and spreading the good news, in my opinion, and not many satisfied clients blabber the good news unfortunately.

I want to re-emphasize what Barbara said as well. Poor electrolysis care damages the profession. Practitioners who do not keep up with continuing education requirements or who do not change their equipment options in favor of the better tools available today are loose cannons that permit clients and the media to say that electrolysis is painful, tedious, expensive, scarring, causes infection. One colleague just told me last night that she read that smelling one’s own hair burning was described in a magazine she was reading describing electrolysis.

Try to overcome those odds when we attempt to talk to doctors about electrolysis. James, I don’t think doctors are rock headed, maybe some are as you described, but truly, I think most doctors would love to hand a card to a patient and say go see this electrologist, he/she can help you. There needs to be certain facts known to the doctor before he/she can offer a referral he/she is comfortable with. There are not always skilled electrologists in the vicinity that a doctor can even refer patients to in many situations. We are reluctant to suggest names of other electrologists here on hairtell if we don’t know what their skill level or hygiene habits are, so thus it goes for doctors as well. The laser industry has brainwashed then as well and it’s easier to find a laser practitioner nearby than it is to find a skilled electrologist.

I think doctors pay more attention to their medical journals and word of mouth testimonials from their patients. If you could see the amount of mail one physician gets everyday, not including e-mail, you would understand why AEA literature was thrown in the trash immediately. It’s a complicated process to grab the consumer’s (and doctor’s) attention, indeed.

Dee

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I only point out the trashing of the AEA literature because electrologists were instructed to go personally into the offices and introduce themselves, and hand the literature to the professional. I know that when I did these things, the doctors acted like I was trying to hand them antraxx.

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I certainly believe you. I personally have given my cards to doctors and they act delighted and say I will keep you in mind. How many referrals did I get in the last several years? Under ten. Maybe they don’t like my looks or something? My own has husband has sent me one, God love him! Klunk! Klunk!

I guess word of mouth is the best we got, dear James. I always ask a near finished client who verbalizes that they are very happy with the results, if they would recommennd me to their friends, family and co-workers. I give them a certain amount off a treatment session as a thank you, when they send me a new client. This seems to work best.

So, we just have to build brick by brick, row by row, I guess.

Self-reliance saves the day.

Dee