DIY Apilus Senior 2 or Apilus Junior Plus?

Hair Removal Methods Do-It-Yourself Electrolysis
#1

Hi all,

I’ve gone through the entire forum pretty thoroughly & the main take-home message I’ve gotten is that it’s best to take a course, to have someone else to work with, and to read Michael Bono’s Blend Method book.

I’m thinking that I may take a course through Berkowitz in NYC for the experience as they have a special one month program that I can do on my vacation in a few months which would be good practice, but not sure if it’s just as effective to just teach myself to save 3000 bones.

I have excellent hand dexterity so I mean how hard that it is to do this on yourself? I’m patient and willing to learn thoroughly (I actually already read one book on electrolysis), & I have a good background in science if that helps. Also, I will likely do most work on myself as I don’t know anyone who I am comfortable to work with.

Background:

I am a male, Indian (mid-twenties) who is pretty hairy & getting hairier everyday thanks to my dad’s genes… I have the body of an Adonis :grin: , but people are surprised to see how much hair I have when I take my shirt off and it destroys my self-confidence. I never go out without a shirt on otherwise I get weird looks & it’s also been giving me problems with women. Even if they claim they don’t have a problem with it, I still do (I suspect most probably don’t like it but tolerate it b/c of my personality). To say the least, I am very hairy & our culture these days vilifies people who are hairy unfortunately.

In any case, for a potential DIYer like myself I have the means of purchasing either an Apilus Junior Plus or an Apilus Senior 2. Which one would be best for me? I don’t plan on opening a business, just DIY work, & anything that I can’t reach, I’ll go to an electrologist. I can purchase the Senior 2 for about $1800 or the Junior Plus for $1300 through a local electrologist. So will the Senior 2 really give me the best bang for the buck or will I never use its advanced features on myself?

Also, in your folks’ professional opinion, how much can I realistically do? The goal is to get as much as possible off of the arms, legs, groin, & most importantly the chest/abdomen. Not sure if there will be any hard spots and if I will have to contort my body to reach those areas. I will probably need a professional to do the back/butt/unibrow/beard in the future.

Total cost would be in the range of $4800 (around $1800 for Senior 2 + $3000 course), so I’m wondering if a course is really worth it if I can teach myself, & save the money. I’m not sure how much money it would cost to do a full body removal compared to $4800 & yes I’ve looked into laser, but I get the impression that it’s unreliable, temporary, & at worst, can make the hair grow back thicker. At least with electrolysis it will definitely be permanent!

Overall, I am pretty serious about doing this, & have thought about it for a long time now. Thanks for reading & advice will be greatly appreciated!

Sincerely,
Taco

#2

If you are serious, and have a partner, and you don’t plan on becoming a professional in he industry, you don’t have to do a formal course with sit down classes.

If you plan on going pro, you will need some extra training.

I would say the most important thing you need right now, if you only plan on working on yourself, and maybe a few friends, is a partner to work on each other and read all the same books.

#3

Hi James,

         Thanks for your help! What about the Junior Plus or Senior 2? Do you think the Senior 2 would be useful? I would pay $1800 for it which seems like a pretty good price whereas the Apilus Junior Plus would be about $1300. I'm just not sure if I would ever end up using the Senior 2's features.

> If you are serious, and have a partner, and you don’t plan on becoming a professional in he industry, you don’t have to do a formal course with sit down classes.

I don’t think I would be able to find someone who would want to do this. How much do you think I can do on my own? Can I get my chest/abdomen/arms/groin, & legs at least? I read that at some courses that they train you to work on your legs to get an idea of how it feels. The most important spots for me are my chest/abdomen & arms (hairy all the way to deltoid).

Also, I live about 4 hours away from you. How much do you think you can get done if I made some day trips if your schedule permits it?

Thanks,
Taco

#4

If I were looking to buy something, I would go for the Senior II, as it is just shy of being an SX-500, and can be upgraded to be equal to the SX-500 as far as the programs go. The Junior Plus is good as well, but if I had a choice, I would go Senior II.

#5

Do you think that $1800 is a steal of a price for the Senior 2 or is it often cheaper? Not sure how low it goes.

I do understand that the higher the price, the better the quality generally speaking (less pain & more effective). I’m just worried if I will have the knowledge/ability to use the advanced features other than the generic galvanic/blend and maybe thermolysis without further training.

It’s a toss-up between a $1300 Apilus Junior Plus or a $1800 Apilus Senior 2 — what does everyone else here think?

#6

I would say that is well within range.
It isn’t a fire sale price, but it is a decent one.

If you want to economize, the Junior Plus will do the work just fine. As long as you are not planning on going pro, you can stick to the Junior Plus. Pro’s need to get the best equipment they can afford to by and upgrade from there as soon as possible to keep the upward mobility of the work performed.

#7

As an owner of an old Junior (my backup machine) I would consider that machine the entry level for serious and ambitious professional use by a specialized professional. From the perspective of a Platinum user I actually do not see much value in the Senior 2 unless that has not been upgraded (Multiplex…).

For DIY purpose i would actually save the money of the difference and invest that into professional training.

#8

Thank you for your input.

Is the microflash a feature that is significantly better than flash? I’ve heard amazing things about microflash, just not sure how much more efficient/quicker it is than regular flash. If it’s a huge difference, not sure if I will ever reach proficiency to properly utilize microflash.

The Apilus brochure says that flash has an application time of .01 s whereas microflash is .001 s, so I’m not sure if you can end up killing hair cells much faster with it unless you have spiderman reflexes.

#9

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t 5 thousand $$ enough to get professional electrolysis on chest and abs complete with a competent electrologist? Even if you manage to learn DIY, I don’t see how you will be able to do back of your legs and thighs or upper chest when micro insertions are already hard enough to master.

#10

fenix is right. with the amount of time and money you’re going to invest in training yourself you are far better off to find a good electrologist to do the work for you.

what type of magnification do you plan to use? you can’t just point whatever magnification apparatus you have at any part of your body and expect to see clearly.you have to play with lighting and distance to get a good focus. this will be very difficult , maybe impossible, on your chest. also, what about your arm? how painfully slow will it be to do an proper insertion with one hand, then grasp tweezers and remove the hair (and not poke yourself with the probe in the meantime).

I think you have the mistaken idea that you will have 100% success with every insertion. I guarantee that you will not. So, you’re looking at treating thousands of hairs, and then the possibility of treating them again, and maybe again.

Do you have the time for this? You’ll have no time to charm the ladies if you’re busy with this. :smiley:

You have no clue what this entails and the amount of time it really involves. Since you have no plans to go pro it really is a better investment of your time and money to have someone do this for you.

I know from personal experience, btw. I do my own electrolysis but I will do it professionally in a few months so that’s why it made sense for me to invest in a training, microscope and good equipment. I am able to contort my body but it’s still impossible to get much of the hair on the sides and back of anywhere because of the difficulty of getting a proper angle of insertion.

Please think a little bit more before you go any further with this.

#11

Well, it’s chest, abs, arms, legs, lower back, & probably upper back in a few years. I’m thinking total cost would probably end up being like $15,000+ and then I’m sure many areas will have to be redone & cost more. The major downside of electrolysis is that it is costly & timely as it’s ideally for smaller ideas unfortunately.

I’m thinking that I may just forgo the course as the good man James Walker said that it won’t be practical. So total cost would be about $1600 (thinking of going with Senior II). I can’t afford several thousand dollars at least at my current age so my reasoning is that I could at least try to get some easy to reach areas (arms, legs, some torso), & if there are areas that I can’t reach then I’ll try waxing until I can afford actual treatments or never show my body ha ha. And I think, worst case scenario, if I end up not able to really do anything, I can always sell the unit itself so I would break even with my little experiment.

I do agree with you & I’m prepared for failure. Ideally if I have enough money, I would seek more professional treatment, but it won’t be until I’m in my late 30s/40s (thank you student loans!) when I can start making some good money. So it’s a catch 22 situation :slight_smile: Then again, I probably won’t care when I’m in my late 30s/early 40s.

Besides, I also would like to go into dermatology one day so I see this as a great learning experience!

I agree with you, but I have little funds at this point as I am a student. However, I will actually be seeing James Walker to get work done on a unibrow & a couple of small areas in a few weeks.

My step-dad who is a dentist has some old equipment that I can use. He has a chair, a lamp, and loupes. Nevertheless, I am aware of the potential difficulties, & am thinking of getting a better pair of loupes.

Chest will probably be difficult, but I think I can eventually handle insertions with one hand, so I’m not too worried about that. I think I have good dexterity and hand eye coordination, but that’s just my novice opinion.

I will have a lot of time this year to do it. I know it’s time consuming (I want to put in about 10 hours a week for about two years) with a lot of difficulties ahead. So far I haven’t charmed that many girls ha ha.

I agree & I do sincerely appreciate your advice! I will definitely seek professional treatment, and am aware that the odds are stacked against me. Nevertheless, I’m confident I will get some areas & I think it will be an interesting experience. Even if I’m able to just get arms and legs, then I will see that as a major accomplishment. I hate walking around with short-sleeved shirts & people making fun of how hairy my arms/legs are. Regardless, I figure that if things don’t work out that well, I can always sell the unit and minimize my losses!

If I may ask:

  1. How many hours did it take for you to feel comfortable working on yourself successfully? I’ve read, that on average, it’s generally about 100 hours or so of actual practice to be able to do it adequately.
  2. Did you read/watch/get guidance by anyone & do you have a partner?
  3. How much have you done on yourself & how many hours have you put into this?
  4. How much clearance have you gotten since you started?

Best,
Taco

#12

My thoughts are with you on this one. When I was getting into DIY electrolysis I looked into an apilus, I just didn’t have the disposable income to justify $1500+ on a machine. My grand total for 2 machines was 600$ very well under what it would have cost to get what I needed done. And I still continue to see a professional so she can get the spots that I can’t reach.

The one good thing about an apilus is that if you do decide to sell it at some point it will hold its re-sell value.

Women… Yeah, now instead of having a lot of hair you’re going to be explaining why you do electrolysis on yourself. My girlfriend thinks I’m crazy, funny thing is she’s had her whole body lasered.

#13

I’d like to take a crack at this one! Seeing how I’ve been at it on and off for about 2 years.

  1. It took me about 4-5 months to properly internalize what I was doing with thermolysis (heat) and my skin. And about 6 months to feel fully confident what I was doing is 100% correct. There’s a bit of a learning curve just like anything else. (Me and a Straight razor… but thats a topic for a different community)

Maybe i’m a slow learner, I’m not afraid to admit it.

  1. No partner except my trusted electrologist. She’s an RN and has been doing this for about 20 years, plus its cheap; $60 an hour. A professional electrologist can be your best friend when you are trying to do DIY, she’s given me a lot of tips on what i’m doing right and wrong.

  2. My target was full clearance on the stomach area and thinning out hair on my arms and legs. “WOW” is all I have to say, it really is a time consuming project, I’m going on one year into this and I have slight regrowth on my stomach area I’d say 10% left.

  3. Hair is a funny thing, at any point a hair can decide to pop up. My clearance is about 90% on the stomach after about a year.

Before you get into this be sure this is something you can accomplish, It requires a lot of time before you actually start to see results. In my opinion men benefit from electrolysis possibly more than women. We have a tendency to be more hairy which detracts from our natural appearance. I’ve had my beard area shaped, and ‘wild’ hairs in my eyebrows done, there is a huge difference in my appearance.

#14

I bought a Senior II for $1600 a pretty good price I think & I can probably break even if I sell it, even in a few years. The way I see it is that if I make progress, then great, & I’ll have a machine that won’t limit me & should purportedly, be easier & more comfortable to use than the cheaper units. If I don’t like DIY, then I can easily sell the thing. I know that Mantaray had a similar unit to what you had, & after a couple of years upgraded to a Senior II I believe, & he really liked that.

Who said I would ever explain that I’m getting electrolysis on myself :P! I could just say that I wax, though I’ve never done it before. However, I don’t know how people can bear with the pain through repeat visits. 40 Year Old Virgin rings a bell…

Interestingly, Steve Carell said that this scene was real. He said, "It hurt so much. It really did hurt. A lot of the women in the crew, they were aware of what was going to happen and I didn’t know. They were saying, ‘Are you sure you don’t want to trim your hair down a little bit? It will hurt less. Can I give you some Advil? I kept saying, ‘No, no, I’m fine.’ I’m fine and then halfway through I was just sweating and thought this was a bad idea.”

How many hours did you put into it this year roughly speaking? I know that this is a time consuming process, but once you became fairly competent at doing this, how many hours did it take for you to get 90%? I imagine that it took somewhere of 200-300 hours? Were you doing this full time or were you doing it a couple of hours per week? I can put in time over the next 10 years+ if need be!

Yes, absolutely. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with hair on men, & it’s considered manly, but some men, like myself, are too hairy for norms & society is gravitating towards the hairless/metrosexual Justin Bieber look ha ha & I don’t think society will revert to the “hairy men” norm in our lifetimes.

1 Like
#15

Were her laser treatments successful?

#16

That’s actually a very good estimate, i don’t have any hard numbers on how long it actually took me, but i’d say no more than 200 hours. Like i said before, you really have to want a change to take place for this to be successful.

Looking back, i would have probably invested in Laser treatments to do the brunt of the removing and then focusing on the clean up work with electrolysis. I can’t rewind time and i’m happy in what i’ve done none the less.

Absolutely! I tend to gravitate towards the idea of an ‘acceptable’ amount of hair on men and that’s what i strive for in what i do.

Surprisingly, Yes. But she did her research before actually choosing a ‘beauty spa’, the one she picked out uses a Candela Laser and comes with some sort of lifetime guarantee. This is actually a subject that comes up between me and my electrologist a lot, many of the lasers used come with unfounded claims of hair removal and tricky wording that, to the average consumer, seem like a good deal. I’m not against laser by any means, i think that it is just way to unregulated of a business to put any faith behind it. Imagine likening a Vector ‘electrolysis’ unit to a Fischer electrolysis machine, the average consumer can’t make the connection between the two, the same holds true with Laser equipment. There’s a legitimate electrolysis machine thread here for a reason ;).

#17

Word of advice, women will notice everything little thing about you. Unless you plan on becoming a shut-in be prepared to explain those little red marks that grace your follicles after every treatment! I’ve had three girlfriends since i’ve started electrolysis (a stable relationship obviously isn’t my forte) and it eventually comes out, trust me!

Oh! And say hello to James for me! I’m a big fan of his work (YouTube etc…) and i think he does a great service for the DIY community.

#18

I do not think that this comparison is quite correct. Vector is more like Tria laser or Silkn IPL.
Professional Laser should do what they claim, which unfortunately, not always the case…

#19

But with Laser the treatment isn’t permanent though & it’ll grow back again in a couple of months possibly thicker.

Ha ha, duly noted.