Cynosure vs. GentleMax Alexandrite? Please comment

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Hello! I’m currently deciding between two laser hair removal packages. The cheaper one uses the Cynosure Apogee Elite. I have had treatments with the GentleLASE, Apogee Elite (on Alexandrite setting) and LightSheer diode. After one treatment with each laser, the GentleLASE was definitely most effective, followed by the Cynosure Apogee Elite. But it also may have depended on where I got the treatments (GentleLASE – face, armpit; Cynosure – bikini, stomach; LightSheer – lower back).

The price for the Cynosure package is hard to beat, which leaves me weary. I just don’t understand how both Alexandrite lasers (Apogee Elite and GentleLASE) can be so different (other than pain levels, maybe, due to cooling devices.) Can anyone out there provide feedback on why one of these devices is better than the other?

For reference I’m a type III with some parts more like IV with dark brown hair.

#2

Hey playingbyheart, check the main forum page I posted a similar question recently. http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/66758/Does_Apogee_use_same_settings_.html#Post66758

The only main difference I was told is that the pulse width on the Gentlelase is 3ms where as it’s 5ms on the CynoSure, meaning you should up the settings on the Apogee a bit to compensate. It can also definitely depend on the settings, plus when you go to a different person that makes a difference as well.

How many sessions have you had on each of those areas, and what do you use to judge effectiveness?

#3

The most important difference are the SETTINGS. You don’t mention them for any of your treatments, so it’s really impossible to compare your treatments. Can you call each clinic and get joules, spot size, and pulse width numbers?

Also, are you male or female? How coarse and dense is the hair on each area? What specific areas on the face?

How did you judge effectiveness? How much of the hair on each area shed within 3 weeks? All should.

Apogee alex and GentleLASE alex differ in spot size and pulse width limitations. But the differences are not so big that they would make an enormous difference on COARSE DENSE hair. HOWEVER, the settings used WOULD make a huge difference. Since GentleLASE pulse is fixed at 3ms, they would need to adjust the Apogee pulse to its lowest, which is 5ms. And since Apogee Elite has a 15mm spot size vs 18mm on GentleLASE, I would make sure that the joules settings are raised proportionately to accomodate for this difference.

#4

Thanks for your input! Here is additional info. I will need to find out spot size and joules for all treatments.

I am female but have PCOS (hormone disorder) which makes me extra hairy.

Candela GentleLASE…

3 treatments on underarm. 12 joules, not sure what spot size. Hair is thick and almost black there, skin is pale. Each time shed completely after 3 weeks, some pepperspots. Now have very little regrowth. Purchased package of 5 so have 2 more, but seems effective even at low? joules. Left some red circles on right underarm after last treatment, might be cryogen burn? Fading, but still noticeable. Used numbing cream.

1 treatment on full face. Hurt a lot even with numbing cream on mustache area and right by ear, but seems to have worked well. Hair is mixed on my face, some very thick (under chin, jawline and sideburns especially, mustache hair is thin but medium dark). All hair shed except a few pieces in my chin area. Have purchased a package of 8 treatments, am spacing 6 weeks apart but may make them closer together. As of now, about 6 weeks after first treatment, hair growth reduced significantly. Have some long thin hairs growing in, but nothing like the full beard I had before. Used some numbing cream, but missed areas.

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Cynosure Apogee Elite

Bikini & Happy Trail: 1 treatment, not sure about settings, I had them written down but need to check. Hurt a little more than Gentlelase, but also in more sensitive areas. Got treatment done about 2 weeks ago. Shedding is mixed. Definitely can tell a difference versus area left alone (landing strip) so that is good. But not all hair seems to be shedding. Many hairs, if pulled gently, come out without pain. But a few are stuck. There is one area the RN definitely missed, I am going in this evening for a free touch up. Back of leg and inner thigh very very painful. Having second thoughts about getting full legs done, but I think it will still be worth it. Not sure if GentleLASE would have been less painful in those areas. Used numbing cream, but not enough, and didn’t cover all spots (esp inner thigh, etc, as I did not realize she would be treating that area. BIG mistake.)

Buttock: 1 treatment, seems to be working. Hair is finer there. I can’t see my backside so well so hard to judge! Not painful at all. Some numbing cream.

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LightSheer – lower back. Thin but dark hair. I can’t see it very well but it doesn’t feel like it has shed properly. Hair texture seems to have changed. Maybe some hair shed. My other technician said it looked spotty. The area right below it that was treated with Apogee Elite definitely is already smoother and shedding better. Not sure about settings. Definitely the least painful. Technician used ice only, no numbing cream. But not going back since it doesn’t work well on my skin, or so it seems.

#5

Also, why is it that technicians know nothing about other devices on the market? I asked the Cynosure RN about the GentleLASE and she had to look it up during my consultation and was saying “wow, they have a really big spot size.”

#6

  • “Thin but dark hair” is not affected by laser. This goes for the back AND especially your face. The problem with treating this type of hair is not the lack of results, but the probability of inducing MORE hair. I would NOT recommend it and would recommend ONLY treating areas with COARSE DENSE growth.

  • 12 joules is too low on GentleLASE on any spot size to actually affect the hair PERMANENTLY. How long has it been since your last treatment? It’s likely too early to judge that it’s gone for good. You can only tell this after at least 3 months. Also, how close together are your treatments spaced? That could be causing you to misjudge effectiveness as well.

  • Red circles could be because the settings are too high for your skin type.

  • Without knowing the settings, it’s really hard to tell you what is wrong with this Apogee treatment. Can you call them and ask for settings? It would be helpful for you to know so that you can direct them better when you go for a touchup today. Otherwise, you may be getting a useless touchup too.

  • Pain shouldn’t be how you judge your treatments in terms of what you can handle. Treatments SHOULD be painful and pain would be similar between different machines. The difference in pain would be caused by lower settings on one machine vs the other, which should not be your goal. That’s what numbing cream is for. The goal should be treating at highest settings your skin can handle safely if you want to guarantee permanent results.

#7

LAGirl thanks again for your feedback and these useful forums. A few questions for you…

Obviously you know a lot about laser hair removal! But I’m wondering where you get your information from in terms of the thin dark hair not working w/ LHR. If this is the case, wouldn’t there be an outrage across the internet from people who had this problem? Not that I don’t believe you, I’m just trying to understand where you are getting your facts from. So far, the thin hairs on my face have reacted well. I know it’s too early to tell if it’s working properly. I’m terrified of spending $6000+ on all this laser treatment to find out it doesn’t work, or worse, that it makes my hair grow back longer and thicker!

Aren’t the machines supposed to work where they target the pigment in the hair? If this is the case, why wouldn’t they work on finer hair as long as it’s highly pigmented?

I will look into the settings on the Apogee. I did have her write them down and I have the info somewhere, I just need to figure out what I did with it. :slight_smile:

I asked my GentleLASE practitioner about the 12J being too low and she said that it wasn’t and it was working fine. It’s really unfair that you buy an expensive package and cannot tell if it really works until long after the package is done.

#8

12 is way too low, and it’s common fact that laser only works on coarse dark hair. GentleLASE is good as it can better targer more finer hairs but fine hairs or light hairs are too small for the laser to see. I don’t think there’s any outrage as it’s common knowledge, that’s why it’s called permanent hair reduction not removal, since only electrolosys can get 100% removal.

#9

Why don’t you run a search here for “induced growth” and other similar keywords. I won’t have to tell you anything or prove anything. You’ll read it with your own eyes.

Yes, it would be great if everything was perfect, but it’s not. That’s why a few of us stick around here trying to help consumers like you avoid wasting your money (you would come back here anyway to complain as others do if you decide that you want to risk it).

Fine hair doesn’t have enough pigment. Honest experienced professionals will tell you that and won’t treat. The other majority will take your money happily. There are no refunds, so they don’t lose anything. You do, however.

You don’t need to wait 6 months to check if it’s working. Yes, it’s hard to tell for you now, but the rest of us have been through this for 5 years and most serious professionals for 10+ years since lasers have been around. It’s already known to them what settings will create permanent results and on what type of hair. Of course, you can always pay and test things out for yourself. Just please don’t come here in a year and tell us that you haven’t been warned! (people do try to do that when they’re upset, believe it or not).

Your clinic and most professionals doing laser out there would be knowledgeable about all this if they actually did more than just point and shoot, and take your money. Those who attend the conferences regularly and keep on top of the industry know all this already.

#10

Ok, so I went for my second face treatment today. I found out that on the face she is using 24 joules with a 12mm spot size, which sounds more along the lines of what you guys think is good. On the underarms she uses a larger spot size (not sure how large) but 12 joules. At 12 joules I got hyperpigmentation circles on my underarms. This is all on the GentleLASE. I pressed the nurse on the finer hair and she said it works fine since my hair is so dark. I wonder if she really believes that or if she is just a really good liar / salesperson. It is hard to tell.

On the Cynosure Apogee Elite, the other nurse did 15/20/20 (15 was the spot size). This was on my bikini area and buttocks area. It burned the darker skin around my labia so she is going to do the Yag laser for that area next time, if I chose to go back.

I am thinking of buying a package with the GentleMax at another location because they are doing a 50% off special. I am not sure what they’d treat me on.

#11

IT sounds like you’re not light enough for an alex and should try a Yag laser.

When you decrease the spot size, the joules are not as effective anymore and need to be raised. To give you an idea, on 18mm 20 j is max, but on 15mm it’s 30j, and those two settings are about equal in power.