Concerned: Pop or Pluck? *Video Enclosed* + Qs

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hey all,

As mentioned on my previous thread, I’m a bit concerned about the slight plucking sensation I feel during my electrolysis sessions. I’m worried that if it’s not normal, I may not be getting effective treatments. When I asked my electrologist about it, she said that the bulb of the follicle is large so she has to tug to get it out…but as we continue through rounds and the hair gets finer, it’ll slide out much smoother.

I was able to make a video during one of my treatments to get some input from Hairtell’s seasoned electrologists. Please help! Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Electrolysis Session - YouTube](http://youtu.be/PkmODjka17o)

Play close attention to the 1:00 mark through the end especially, you can see the resistance a bit more clearly. I apologize for the quality of the video, sometimes I fiddle with my phone during treatments to distract myself and this time I made a video to show you all (she didn’t really know). Wasn’t really able to get much closer :slight_smile:

I’m at about my 4th treatment (all 1.5 hours each) and we haven’t had a full clearance yet. I have a few concerns and would GREATLY appreciate if you guys could address answering them… I’m starting to get really worried about a few of these.

As a refresher, here’s where i started…(thanks to stimulated growth from laser :frowning: )

  1. The following day after my treatment, I have scabs all over the treated area. They fall off in about 5 days, but is it normal to always get scabs? Could this be a sign of the current being too strong? My electrologist uses an older Hinkel machine and has never really adjusted the temp. What we started with is what we’ve continued on.

  2. Even though the scabs fall off, I’m left with some dark spots under the skin. I’m generally prone to hyperpigmentation and worried if these will go away. My electro said that a few months after it’s all over, theyll begin to disappear. She told me not to put any hydroquinone or anything on it because she doesn’t know how my skin will react to the chemicals, but in all her experience the spots have gone away on their own. Is that accurate? (please see the picture of the sides of my chin and the dark pigmentation under the skin in the treated area).

I’m really worried about getting rid of all the hair (fingers crossed!) but being left with spotted skin. It’s like I can never win :-/

Are the scabs bigger/deeper with coarse hair? Once the hair becomes finer, will I not have to deal with it as much?

  1. My electro uses a gold ballet probe and reuses them for future treatments (she keeps each clients probes in a separate container). I can have her use a new probe everytime, I’d just have to pay a little extra for it. I don’t mind paying extra if it’ll make a difference, but she seems to think reusing the probe is perfectly fine. I asked her if she sanitizes it between uses and she said she does. Any thoughts?

  2. Is this much irritation normal? The chin area was treated on 10/2 and the neck area treated 10/8. Will it start looking better? Should I start exfoliating the chin area? Really appreciate any guidance, Im terrified of ruining my skin.

Thanks for reading this far. I know it’s a long post but I really hope the video helps me get some answers. Thank you all for your time, it’s so reassuring having you all!!!

#2

I do not know, but I think this is not entirely legal. In any case it is not correct. You should remove that video to avoid problems. If you think things are not going as they should go, I would try another professional.

#3

You basically have “beard hairs” and will get some temporary manifestations from any treatment.

I will let the others talk about “scabs and marks” because I’ve lost interest in talking about this over and over … endlessly! (I suppose we are going to start “measuring” the scabs? Talking about “overtreatment?” What kind of needle? Modern machines? What a “pluck” feels like? Fat hair roots? … blah blah blah?)

Can’t we simply direct this poor worried soul to one of the hundreds of threads that already go over all these issues in excruciating detail? All of this feels like the “Sisyphus myth!” Okay, there goes that rock down the hill again! And, yes, I’m having an “existential melt-down!” (Just kiddin’.) Where’s Camus when you need him?

However, I will comment on the statement that your electrologist is “keeping your needle” for another appointment. She’s a total damned idiot and what he/she is doing is not legal and completely unethical. He/she should be arrested!

A needle costs about 50 cents! How CHEAP can you get? Although the risk of cross-infection is low, it’s not impossible; a mistake could be made. How about some nice hepatitis with your hair removal?

Folks, are there really these CRAZYS still out there?

Please give this fool my email, so that I can fill him/her in on 20th century techniques … err, oooops, I guess we’re in the 21st century. Is this person still in the 19th century? I don’t promise that I won’t use 4-letter words in my email to him/her!

Here’s what I would do (especially if this person is practicing in a “licensed State,” such as California). I would tell him/her that re-using a needle is illegal. I would have a blood test and a doctor’s appointment to “rule out” any infection (such as hepatitis). And, I would send your electrologist the bill! MAYBE an experience like this would change the behavior? You might even consider some “pain and suffering” for the worry that the electrologist put you through?

At least … print out my post here on Hairtell and hand it to the electrologist! Hand it to this person and then RUN out of the office! Once again, I seem to have some steam under my toupee! He he he (Just that existential thing, I guess?)

#4

Getting a full clearance in 6 hours is not happening for you. It can happen for others but you have a lot of growth.

She is working with the Hinkel, 2 handed and the speed looks a little fast for blend but a little slow for thermolysis. Does the machine have dials? Analog instead of digital? I can’t really get a good look at the scabbing but you look okay. Just because someone has a new digital epilator does not mean you will get a better treatment but the likelihood of more comfort and less scabbing is probable. You have lots of hair, close together. Working contiguous coarse hairs might be irritating and normal at this time. In every situation I have encountered, as you have fewer hairs per square inch, you will have less redness and less swelling and in your case, you might see less scabbing.

Often, excessive facial hair growth is accompanied by acne. Make sure you know what tissue reaction is from electrolysis and what is from your acne. If you are not clear on this, your electrologist will have a tough time trying to troubleshoot problems that have nothing to do with her work.

Regarding the hyperpigmentation (dark spots), yes, they disappear on their own with naturally occurring cell renewal. As you produce normal skin cells, those darkened dead skin cells at the surface will fall away. The thing is, if you should pick the scabs, you will be stimulating melanocytes located in the dermis and this will show up as darkened areas. What you do not want to see are scabs that look like the size of pimples. The video is not clear enough to ascertain this.

Personally, I do not like that you are not getting a sterilized probe with each treatment. Does the container have your name on it? Is this personally labeled container going into a sterilizer? I do not know where you are located but laws differ however, “sanitizing” is not adequate.

The settings you indicate, “10/2, 10/8” are specific to the particular make and model. There are so many other variables to consider that these numbers alone are not enough.

For most of us, skin is resilient.
I like products like Retin A, an Rx, for those with acneic skin.

In any event, if you have any concerns, you should visit other electrologists and compare. “Sanitizing” the needle, for me, would be enough reason to look elsewhere.

#5

She has cleared out a lot of hair, and it seems like the hairs are being treated such that you will rid yourself of the hairs, while limiting as best she can, the post treatment healing.

I don’t see anything wrong with what I say in the video.

#6

Josefa - I apologize if you felt it was wrong for me to post a video. In all honesty, I just needed another opinion in regards to the plucking I’ve experienced and if it was normal. Since you can’t see the practitioner and I don’t reveal her name, I don’t feel like it has a negative impact in any way on her either. I’ve turned to hairtell to help me figure out if I NEED to find someone else based solely on technique.

Michael - I’m sure you’re soo tired of the same questions over and over – sorry! I’ve tried reading other threads but sometimes they go off on tangents so finding the answers to my questions gets tricky :slight_smile: I’m just concerned about the scabbing (every time) and resulting hyper pigmentation…but it sounds like that’s not too unusual.

While I still figure everything out, I’ve asked my practitioner to use a new probe every time. I know it’s ridiculous that I even need to ask that, but while i assess what I want to do next, I don’t want to burn bridges. Ironically, I found this practitioner on hairtell and she had a few good reviews.

Arlene - the machine is a clear blend with dials, not digital at all. I was curious about her speed as well (we’re doing complete thermolysis). I’ve searched quite a bit for someone using a newer apilus machine but the only person I found had only about 1 yr experience and that worried me. Everyone with 20-30 yrs experience is using an older machine. Do you think it’s worth continuing to search?

The scabs are small and do fall off in about 5 days leaving some hyper pigmentation and dry skin behind. In regards to the probe, yes they were kept in a separate container with my name on it, but just to be safe I’m paying for a new one each time. The 10/2 and 10/8 were referring to the dates of each session, not the settings.

James - my biggest concern and primary reason for posting the video were in regards to the tugging of hair during my treatment. At the 1:00 mark on the video, you can start to see how the tugging and plucking happens. Of course when I ask my electro if that’s supposed to be happening she says yes, but I’m worried some if my treatments are being wasted since the follicle isn’t destroyed enough to “slide out”. That’s why I was hoping hairtell could help confirm if this was indeed unnecessary plucking, or if it looke like a normal tug that occurs with coarse hair.

Thank you all so much for your responses and help… You’re amazing.

#7

Your concern is absolutely legitimate. While professionals in this forum do not agree on how the hair should go without the customer feels absolutely nothing always, it’s your money and your time.

If in each session a number of hairs is being forced even minimally, these hairs will return, and you’re not paying for tweezing, you are paying for each hair is treated properly. I think Stoppit has been very clear about it.

True, you have not revealed his/her name, but others with less scruples could follow your example. It is necessary to warn about the illegality of this practice. Personally I have no objection to record me, it’s, I encouraged some of my clients to do, Zaphairzap for example.

#8

A link to your first thread for other readers:
http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/109573/First_Electrolysis_Session_Eve.html#Post109573

You may believe you are being a savvy customer but to be honest, the way you are going about trying to find out whether the work is effective or not, is not the right way.

Your video is from too great a distance and too blurry to be able to make anything out. This isn’t a suggestion to produce a better quality video. You say that you are feeling resistance when some of the hairs have been removed. You have been given a factual statement which is that hairs that present ANY resistance on extraction mean that the follicle will produce a hair again. It’s up to you to accept this or not and then figure out if this electrologist is worth you spending your time and money with.

I didn’t read in your first post that you visited any other electrologists for a consultation and test treatment. This would be my first move.

Once you have found an electrologist who seems to be getting it right but you are still not sure, there is a simple test for effectiveness which I have posted more times than I care to remember:
Ask the electrologist to completely clear a small area (say, 2" x 2") of ALL hairs. Prior to the electrolysis, the hair in the chosen area should not have been tampered with, I would say, for at least 6 months. It’s usually easier to select a body area.
3 months after the session (again, it’s advisable not to tamper with the hairs after treatment) you will be able to see how effective the electrologist’s work is. The hair present in the area after 3 months will be a combination of regrowth from any follicles that were not completely destroyed, and hairs that were not present at the time of clearance to treat them in the first place. In the perfect treatment, you will only observe the latter hairs which should be minimal.

You can then judge whether you believe the reduction to be worth your time and money.

#9

I have a question on finding your kill rate percentage. I have a client who is willing to let me clear a 2x2 patch on his back but he is 69 years old man. I am thinking that since this older man is in his later years and his hair and testosterone is declining I will not get an accurate percentage after six months if it were compared to someone in their 30’s or 40’s. Does age matter when finding a kill rate percentage? I am thinking that I will get false numbers on a 69 year old.

Just a side note: I think that doing a secret video of your electrologist is not right. I would ask to take a video and if the electrologist said no then I would go elsewhere for treatment.

#10

All good comments.

I also use manual blend and even though the unit is “digital,” in that all components are microprocessor-controlled; the actual physical control is manual (not the beep-beep-beep stuff).* Furthermore, I’m quite able to remove a man’s 80-unit beard hairs without producing any scabs whatsoever. So, a couple questions.

I’m wondering what size and type NEEDLE the person is using? If the thing is too thin, it’s getting too hot before she gets a proper “release.” If she’s using a tapered needle, is she using it correctly? Or, is the taper at “high tide?” (The Ballet tapered are not all that easy to use and usually the practitioner has the taper “waiving in the wind” and not in the follicle!)

Then, you say she’s’ using thermolysis only with no DC? Actually, this is a perfect situation for an insulated needle. If she won’t get them herself, because she’s a CHEAP idiot … (YES, I’m not “politically correct”), you can purchase your own from Laurier (or from one of the distributors). It’s a good solid instrument and should almost certainly eliminate scabbing (while giving a good release and kill-rate). I would go with an insulated. The “Hairtell Gang” has a ton of experience with these well-made “puppies” and can suggest the right size. Do it!

(*It’s actually more costly to produce a machine without a “digital read-out,” since the internal components require additional circuits to produce a manual display … For example, this is what Mercedes, et. al., does with their autos: Yes the motor, etc., is all “computer controlled,” but the instruments display in analogue because (as they discovered) it’s more “human.”)

#11

Yes, actually matter. The back is one of the areas where the hairs are developed later, therefore, the data will be more reliable if the test is done in the back of a man of 69 years that this would be in one of 30. To make a test in a man of 30 years, it is better to choose another area such as the forearm or chest.

#12

Trying to find a reason for what happens in that video (at minute 1) as the type of machine, the type of magnification, or the type of needle, is avoiding the obvious. None of those things justify the fact that the hair is being forced out. If this happens once during the entire session, it may be an isolated incident perfectly justifiable (nobody’s perfect). If this happens many times in a single session, then it’s premeditated and should never occur…

…but of course, I can be wrong.

#13

Thanks Jossi, it will be on his lower back.

#14

Some people put onions in their hash browns, others do not.

This is just one of those points that we either agree to disagree on, or we argue forever, while never really getting a proper understanding of what we all are even talking about.

The real proof is in the amount of hair you have in the treated area ONE YEAR after treatment. Keep your photo diary of your pre and post treatment pictures, and watch the progression. You should have fewer hairs and eventually less treatment time soon.

#15

Unfortunately have not been so good about photo’s and I will start Monday. I will start with my current clients and of course all new clients. I am going to do the 2x2 patch on the 69 yr old and I may have a man in his early 40’s who will let me do the test. I like the thought of knowing what the kill percentage is. It’s kind of cool, especially if the numbers are good? \m/

#16

Thank you everyone for your feedback, it has really helped me assess and understand if I’m happy with my treatments thusfar. As I’ve mentioned before, I originally made the video for myself because I wanted to see if there was “plucking” and afterwards thought it might help others advise by seeing the video instead of my explanation. Again, I didn’t mean for this to seem unethical which is why I didn’t reveal details about my electro but I understand your point of view as well.

My greatest confusion was understanding the difference between a pluck vs pop, but after reading everyone’s feedback, I do believe that there is more resistance in the treatment than needed. I’ve got a lot of hair to kill and not an unlimited supply of money so I’ve gotta make these treatments count!

It has been 2 weeks since I started treatment with my electrologist and I have gone twice a week for 1.5 hours each. I’ve decided to take a few days off to let me my skin heal and line up a few consultations with electrologists in the area. Prior to beginning my treatment, I had many consultations already – I met with about 6 electrologists. Most of them were nice and very experienced (but only 2 offered a sample treatment and at the time, I hadn’t had previous treatments so I had little knowledge and nothing to compare it to) but some had really steep charges and all of them used older machines.

I’ve decided to find an electro that uses an Apilus machine and has plenty years experience. I know effective treatments can also come of older machines but if I’m going to change practitioners, I want to aim for those. Aside from those requirements, are there any other essential details I should look for? If there is already a thread/topic outlining this, I would greatly appreciate if someone could direct me to it.

Fingers crossed

thanks again everyone!

#17

I wouldnt be stuck on just an apilus. I happen to like Apilus ( heck I own one) but I am the frist to admit there are better machines out there. The Silouette Tne VMC for example is an exellent machine in fact having been worked on by one, I prefer it if I’m being worked on. Basically any of the computerized epilators will have a whackload of features that will make any treatment a cinch. I’ve only just started to explore some on the Apilus, but it’s the same with any machine, it takes time to get used to how it does and what it does, for any practitioner. And I have a advantage someof those pro’s dont, I’m not only doing the work, I’m a client and get to see…and FEEL the end results…on ME. Your best bet honestly? GET REFERRALS.

Seana

#18

Thanks Seana, I’m not too familiar with all the machine options but I know Apilus is thrown around a lot on the forum so I was keeping an eye out for that – glad to know Silhouette would be a good option too.

I’ll definitely update with machines used once I narrow down some new electrologists and I’d love to hear your feedback then as well :slight_smile:

#19

Just a quick update:

I’ve been calling a number of electrologists and asking them about their machines, experience, etc. Some of them give sample treatments during consultations, some unfortunately don’t. I went in for a consult with someone I had high hopes for today and she seemed great – 26 years experience, very hygienic and has worked with a lot of clients of a similar ethnicity so she seems to understand my hyper pigmentation issues quite well.

She uses a pretty new machine, the brand is “Elegance”. Anyone familiar with this machine? She also has a Silhouette Tone machine but wants to use the Elegance for my treatment because she said she has seen the best results with it. She also wants to go the “manual thermolysis” route (not exactly sure what the difference between manual and flash is?) and she wants to use an insulated probe.

Oh and her aftercare recommendations (especially for the hyperpigmentation) are 70% alcohol + neosporin + hydrocortisone with aloe. She didn’t really care for me to continue the TTO regimen I’m currently doing.

Thoughts?

The only downside is that her schedule is reaaally full so getting in as often as I’d like may be a bit difficult…

#20

Oh – and in the sample treatment, although it was only a few mins and a few hairs, there was very little resistance and a much smoother release of the hair!