Computerized vs. Non-computerized epilators

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

I’m an MTF, and have undergone 90+ hours of blend electrolysis. I have become quite concerned about the skin damage that has manifested from the treatments – swelling that won’t go away, hypo-pigmentation, wrinkling, pitting. I’ve stopped electrolysis for the time being, trying to understand what’s happened before I proceed with more electrolysis. My electrologist has a good reputation, but I’m beginning to wonder if it’s well-deserved. She uses a Hinkle UC-3, and goes heavy on the thermolysis in the blend – on the radio-dial setting, she sets thermolysis on 18 and glavanic on 3. On this forum, I’ve read good things about modern computerized epilators, but my electrologist’s Hinkle UC-3 is not computerized, is it?

My question is this – exactly what makes the computerized models better? In the hands of a skilled electrologist, how would a computerized model make treatments safer and less damaging than if the electrologist were using a non-computerized model?

Springtime blessings,
Kineta

#2

I don’t beleive that any equipment, can make up for a lack of skill. Could you post pics of your skin ? This does sound like over treatment.

#3

I don’t have time to give this question the ink it deserves, but for starters, a good computerized electrolysis machine would quicken the time it takes to go from poor treatment, to decent treatment, as the pre-sets would make it easy to find a working current for most people. The auto sensor would make competent electrolysis providers faster, and the more gentle treatment currents would make the sensation of treatment more tolerable, thus making longer appointments a possibility, so that full clearances can be done, and the final clearance can come quicker, while the condition of the skin is left closer to normal and heals fast.

I hope someone else can expand on that.

Keep in mind, however, a great electrolysis provider can make a sewing needle connected to an onion soaked in gatorade work. Meanwhile, a bad worker can do bad work with the best equipment out there.

#4

Thank you both, Christine and James, for taking time from your busy schedules.

Christine, I can assure you, without posting pics, that it’s definitely over-treatment. My electrologist and I went along swimmingly for almost a year of treatment, then unbeknownst to me, she upped the thermolysis setting. I noticed the damage that was beginning to appear after a few treatments at the higher setting, especially after significant scabbing following a treatment. I complained, and she reduced the setting, but then a few weeks later, again unbeknownst to me, we were back at the higher setting, and more damage was done. That’s when I decided to haul down the sails and get my bearings.

James, I appreciate the overview. If I could bother you with just one follow-up question: what does the auto-sensor sense?

I couldn’t help but giggle at the idea of electrolysis using a sewing needle attached to an onion soaked in gatorade. Reminded me of those kooky and fun experiments my fifth-grade science teacher Miss Daniels used to have us do. Maybe it’s not so kooky, though. In this economy, a girl in desperate need of electrolysis might be tempted to try such at home. It would never do for me, though – onions and weddings always make me cry. I’d never be able to see what I was doing.

Happy Easter everyone,
Kineta

#5

Dear Kineta,

yes, what your describe, sounds like overtreatment. Despite of the question of its severity - if you have lost confidence in this electrologist for whatever reason it is time for a change.

The auto-sensor is a feature which starts the epilation process a predefined time after inserting the needle. IMO nothing for beginners; some electrologists like it and some do not. I belong to the 2nd group - well i had my initial training on the Sterex SX-B, and that was ideal to start with: You can only be successful if You really understand what You are doing.

Concernig the results: in classical blend application with constant currents, computerization will help almost nothing - and it is possible to obtain perfect results with manual blend machines if operated correctly. A computerized machine can modulate the HF energy with time such as to minimize sensation, sometimes obtain much faster and yet safe results.

Anyway, perfect results can be achieved with manual epilation machines as well - the skill of the electrologist is much more important than any high tech device.

Happy Easter as well,

Beate

BTW: although i also use a “computerized” epilator, i started my business using manual blend as well and now systematically explore the more advanced possibilities of my device.

#6

Have you ever had treatment from another electrologist ? It is really helpful to make comparisons, about skin reactions, healing times, general efficiency and ease of hair removal without resistence. It is a good idea to sample several operaters, with varied equipment, for very short sessions. Most of us here favor the apilus platinum, for its speed and minimal sensation using pico flash.

#7

If you let us know what city you are located in, maybe we can refer you to someone.

Keep in mind that you can address your skin problems by getting peels after you complete your electrolysis.

#8

Kineta: The auto sensor activates when the probe touches the skin, as long as the person receiving the treatment is grounded (that is in contact with the inactive pole of the galvanic side of the machine). Once the electrical circuit is made, the auto sensor begins a count down to delivering the treatment energy that has been preselected for the hairs that are currently being worked on. This allows the practitioner to work faster, as the need to tap a foot pedal, or work finger switches is eliminated. All the worker has to do is concentrate on insertions, and extractions.

(I must say, the fingerbuttons on some european machines puzzle me. Why would one design a machine where one must make a fine, detailed insertion, that must be held in place as still as possible, and then install activation buttons requiring one to take one’s attention off the insertion in order to find and push buttons.)

#9

I had a very busy month last month and I can only say that I would be more tired than I feel tonight if had done all those insertions with a foot switch. Auto-sensor mode is highly efficient. The insertion numbers are incredible and clients appreciate smooth, unlabored hair removal. One must totally concentrate when using auto-sensor mode. That’s why I rarely talk during a treatment so I can move as fast as possible as determined by the difficulty of the area. Yes, the Platinum (or Pure) are great tools for this. The Silhouet-Tone VMC (microflash) works well, too, for using an auto-sensor strategy. I can name other epilators that I am familiar with and I’m sure there are even more that I have never used.

The other side of the equation pertains to eyesight and visual aid help. Without the good vision part, it is probably safer to choose to use a foot switch.

Dee

#10

I appreciate the responses I have received here. I came seeking neither advice nor recommendations, but nonetheless appreciated the kindness and generosity of Christine and Arlene who offered such. I sought information, and feel I have received from James, Beate, and Dee what I came for. And so, James, Beate, and Dee, I offer thanks.

If my understanding is correct, when an electrologist sets the power settings too high, or leaves the power on too long during insertions, at either a level or duration that could cause tissue damage, modern computerized machines are not yet sophisticated enough to warn of the potential damage with biofeedback sensors that might warn of elevated tissue temperature or dessication. In other words, no machine will help save the client from her electrologist’s negligence.

Christine and Arlene, I appreciate the advice and the offer to help me find a new electrologist. However, I’m backing away from professional electrolysis for now. Before I started electrolysis, I did my homework. I combed the web for information about good local electrologists, asked around at local transgender support groups. Though I live in a big city, I could muster only two recommendations, and one of those, at best, was lukewarm. The electrologist I picked came with alphabet soup: CPE, AEA, LPN, etc., and she had a couple of decades of experience. She’s respected by her peers, holding an office in the state electrologists’ association. And you can find a recommendation for her on this website, as on several other websites. But “qualified,” “respected,” “recommended” electrologist though she be, she ruined the texture and contour of my face. And I since have learned she has overtreated and damaged the faces of two other women. Lord knows how many others she’s hurt. So given that she’s reputed to be one of the best around these parts, I’m really not in a mood to try other electrologists.

I had faith when I should have had doubt.

I find comfort in Arlene’s reminder that I can get peels after electrology. In the meantime, it is so incredibly painful to live with this.

When I get back around to electrolysis, I believe I might give it a go myself. I doubt I’ll go so far as to try the sewing needle attached to the gatorade-soaked onion that James so playfully told us about, but I do believe I’ll give the One Touch a try. God graced me with steady hands and solid patience, so it just might work for me.

I listened to Weekend Edition on National Public Radio on Easter Sunday. Host Liane Hansen interviewed Benedictine nun Joan Chittister about doubt and faith, and Sister Joan said this:

“Doubt is a wonderful thing, yet it is what people fear most, and what people castigate themselves about most. Doubt is that moment in the faith life when we put down everybody else’s answers and begin to find our own. We look at everything we’ve been told about what is holy and what is true, and we test it.”

I appreciate all that’s been offered me here. Community is so important. Though a blind woman be fiercely independent and newly committed to finding her own way, it’s kinda nice for her to hear a few friendly voices when she’s run herself up against an unfamiliar wall.

Springtime blessings for all. Except for you, Christine. For you, dear, it’s autumn blessings,
Kineta

#11

Dear Kineta,

I had faith when I should have had doubt.

I find comfort in Arlene’s reminder that I can get peels after electrology. In the meantime, it is so incredibly painful to live with this.

Yes, indeed, it is. I know how it feels, and i feel it every time i look into the mirror. Well, actually almost every time…

But Your skin is able to compensate for a bit.

Give Your face some time to heal and maybe start some treatment like derma-rolling (i am afraid having to do this DYI because the collegue broke her promise paying for my treatment and my business is still too small to be able to afford the treadment by a physician) or fractional laser - thats what has been suggested to improve my scarring. See “my” thread.
Meanwhile i am high in the 200 hours of electrology treatment.

best wishes

Beate

BTW: this morning i have had another session in my face - fast thermolysis at about 600 hairs per hour with an old manual device and isolated probes. (@James and Dee: yes, she uses a pedal, even controls the process manually and that over a full working day…) Well, it hurts, swelling in the normal range, and it heals well. And i don´t recognise when the hair is being pulled out - a good sign.

#12

Hi Kineta!

The only computer that will never fail you is what’s inside your head. Listen to the voice of your sense of touch. Learn to read the signs that tell you you’ve arrived at the target area. It’s a special feeling. The area must destroy is equipped with a special innervation. The advantage of working on yourself is that nobody is pushing you to be very fast.
Professionals sometimes alter the order of things. The speed must be the least of our priorities. Before are the quality of the skin resulting from treatment and the effectiveness of our work. Follow these premises in that order and everything will be fine for you.

#13

Merry Christmas Everyone!
I’ve just read the article of Kimberly Williams about Computerized epilator http://www.bostonschoolofelectrolysis.com/computerized-electrolysis-epilator.php
I am sorry for bringing the topic on Christmas because Kimberly does not seem a nice person, but I am really curious about her statements. In her article she says “Computerized epilator will not fire the current unless the needle is inserted exactly dead center at the base of the follicle because Computerized epilator senses an abundant amount of moisture to release of fire the current.”
Is it true? I tried to find the prove of it in the Interent, but could not! is it really true that Computerized epilator will not fire the current unless the needle is inserted exactly dead center at the base of the follicle? It sounds like a miracle! But from I’ve read, the auto sensor requites even more skills from the electrologist!

#14

No that is not true, Kimberly Williams is a crackpot. There is a long thread about her and the so called ‘boston school of electrolysis’ (which is neither in boston nor a school) on this forum which is quite amusing.

Auto sensor does however require more skill from the operator, for the exact opposite of the reason she states. The auto-delay countdown begins as soon as the probe touches any skin moisture, so basically as soon as it touches the skin. The skin moisture acts as a conductor to complete the circuit between the probe and the negative electrode. While machine such as the higher end apilus ones do have the ability to sense skin moisture level (based on the impedance between the probe and negative electrode in the completed circuit), that moisture level reading is only used to gauge roughly how much energy you should start with since thermolysis depends heavily on skin moisture level. It would not make much sense to use skin moisture with auto-sensor given the variability of skin moisture level from region to region on the same person, and the even greater variability from one person to the next.

In order to use auto sensor effectively, you must use a low delay seting, and since the delay timer starts immediately when the probe hits the skin that means you must be able to do good, accurate insertions very quickly. If you fumble around with the insertion and go too slow the current will be released in the wrong area of the follicle.

On the other hand, if you use a long delay setting then you will not risk the current going off in the wrong area of the follicle but in that case you will have many insertions which are ready before the delay is over and thus you are wasting time waiting for the current to come on when you could have already turned it on manually using the footpedal and been moving faster.

#15

Wow! What a disinformation from Kimberly! Thank you very much for your reply!
Of course, it would be fantastic if some day the epilator really will be able to detect itself the papilla and fire the current!
Maybe someday….

#16

I never use the footswitch. I am always in auto sensor mode. Believe me, if I move my wrist the wrong way and brush the skin, the energy will release. It does not know whether I am in proper position inside the follicle or not. Thanks t4, for a great post. Very good information.

#17

An important distinction in auto-sensors is that while the Apilus Auto-Sensors have a built in “auto-abort” that will stop the countdown if the moisture contact is broken, the Silhouet-Tone machines do NOT have this feature. Any time moisture completes the contact, that machine will count down and fire without respect to your continued contact with the treatment area. Although I did make more than one suggestion to the company on why this should be changed, they did not find my concerns to be worth making any changes.

This quirk of manufacturers does present a problem, however, if one is working on someone who has moisture on their skin from sources like, humidity, sweat, or has used a water based topical numbing product. In short, while one is positioning the probe for work, you could touch a stray hair, other than the one you are looking to treat, start the countdown, and when you are then making your insertion, the Silhouet-Tone machine will misfire, as the countdown started prior to the beginning of your insertion. Even if you don’t brush anything on your way towards the follicle, you can come into contact with the hair or a moisture bead on your way down towards the follicle opening, and start the countdown ahead of your insertion to the follicle that way as well.

I have recommended Sil-Tone’s and still list them in the top of the machines available, but this one thing is a very important reason why I place Apilus above Silhouet-Tone in my ranking of electrolysis machine equipment manufacturers.

(as for humanoids disseminating misinformation… I will resist the temptation to comment… Although I am reminded of the day in one of my history classes when the professor said, “Today we will discuss The Holy Roman Empire, which was neither holy, roman, nor an empire.”)

#18

Thank you very much James for such detailed reply!
Ugh! That Kimberly!..
Just curious, do all Apilus machine have Auto-Sensors built in “auto-abort”?! Or only Platinum?
What about other manufactures, for example Compu-Blend Epilator of Fisher? Or only Apilus has such “auto-abort”?

#19

All the Apilus machines have the auto-abort feature, but off the top of my head, I don’t remember if the Fischer or Instantrons have it. Hopefully someone can chime in before I have to make phone calls to find out. It has been at least 7 years since I have worked on a Fischer, more than just at a demo.

#20

I was looking at the specifications on certain models of Fischer and Instatrons and they describe auto-sensor mode, but nothing called auto-abort. With my Sil-Tone VMC, the energy released if I was in a tight spot and I turned my wrist the wrong way, accidentally touching the skin near the insertion point.

I need to investigate what is going on with my Apilus Platinum. I don’t hear the abort sound if this happens, but rather I hear the beep as if I made a regular insertion. When I see you tomorrow, we can take a look at that.