Coarse Chin Hair Not Going Away

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hello All,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I am from Indian origin and with tan skin. I went in for laser about 3 years ago for my cheeks, upper lip and chin and that was a big mistake.

Around my cheek and chin I started to grow hair. Not a full on beard but stray hairs. I’ve been going to electrolysis for almost 2.5 yrs to get rid of it. A lot of the stuff on my cheeks has gone but under my chin there is still hair.

It grows out fairly coarse and pointy. When it grows out it feels like stubble to touch. I go for electrolysis every 2.5 weeks for 30 min. treatments.

I estimate I must have spent 26 hrs getting electrolysis. After about a week and a half or so, I can feel the hair start to grow back. I believe my electrologist uses thermolysis but I can’t remember.

I would like some feedback telling me what if anything am I doing wrong. Do I need to find a new electrologist? Any recommendations for the Toronto area? Do I need to go for treatments more frequently? I go every 2.5 weeks b/c if I go any sooner, the hair is under the skin and my electrologist has to dig it out, which is painful.

I feel like I’m at my wit’s end with this and it’s really stopping me from enjoying life.

Please help!

#2

"…the hair is under the skin and my electrologist has to dig it out … "

After 2.5 years this should not happen — unless you are tweezing between treatments. Regular treatment should yield results in less than 14 months. (I recently “finished” a young woman with PCOS and a pretty heavy case in 14.5 hours — duing a 13 month period.) I expect to see her perhaps every 6 months or so to keep ahead of the condition.

Your electrologist? Talk to her!

#3

When I mean growing under the skin, I mean that it’s sorta stubble-like not that it’s ingrown.

I have tried bringing it up with my electrologist but she claims it’s just hormones. My hormones are normal though but I guess she claims it’s part of the normal hormonal cycle.

I do not tweeze or wax. The hair comes in pretty steadily and pretty regularly though.

What should I ask her to do ? Double zap? Or higher intensity?

It’s actually not a lot of hair. Maybe 50 or so. My electrologist has never burned me or caused discoloration so I’m hesitant to go to another one.

#4

“Stubble-like” after 2.5 years of treatment? (Jossie, what do you think? IR?) And, it’s not your hormones! Hormones, I just love those hormones.

I do know that hairs growing under the chin are particularly difficult to “get to.” Not actually seeing you, and not wanting to disparage anyone’s work — I just don’t know.

How uncomfortable are you when she works under your chin (neck area)? You need to tilt your head back (using pillows etc.) to get under there (not very comfortable), or the insertion is difficult and (maybe) she’s missing the hairs? After all, she was successful on the rest of your face! Never forget that.

A partial “burn” will create a stubble-like hair that regrows “immediately” because it has only been “burned off” at the top portion and just keep growing (called: IR, or “instant regrowth.”) Is that what you are seeing? I’m thinking: a larger diameter needle and bending the needle to a 45-degree angle.

#5

Do you feel the hair slide out without resistance after being zapped? This is important to figure out if treatments are good.

Also, chin hair is relatively deep. I needed blend on the areola area hair which is also deep, while thermolysis was fine for other areas.

#6

Sometimes, it feels like it’s sliding out however there are times when it feels like plucking. But that is infrequent.

The growth is steady though, like I need treatment every 2.5 weeks for over two and a half years. I would think at this time the hair growth would slow down. And the hair is thick. It is not soft or fuzzy. It’s thick and wiry. I would say similar to hair that has been shaved.

The hair on the side of the face reduced yes but there’s still quite a bit under the chin.

I’d like to be free of this in the next four months as I want to do some long term travelling. Do you think this would be possible? At least less regrowth. Maybe treatments every 2 months instead of every 2 weeks.

#7

You don’t need treatments more often than once every 4-6 weeks. Hair cycles on the face are fast, but not that fast. As long as you can committ to only shaving and clipping in between, you are ok.

But this is a very long time to have treatments regardless, if you stayed on schedule the entire time. Something is off.

How old are you? What is the reason behind the growth? Have you seen an endocrinologist? It’s either your body keeps producing new growth or the skill of the electrologist is not great or you need blend method for deeper hairs.

#8

I’m 26. I do not have a hormone problem I am quite sure. I do a general annual checkup and everything is fine.

I do have hair on my arms etc. but I don’t have an excessive hair problem. For example, I wax my legs and it generally takes 4+ weeks to regrow. My eyebrows regrow 3-4 weeks after threading.

I have no idea why the hair on my chin grows so quickly. I think the laser hair removal I got originally messed up the follicles. On the left side of my face there is much more hair growth which corresponds to how they used the laser. The right side wasn’t as bad.

I actually had no hair under my chin prior to the laser treatment.

In between electrolysis treatments, I have not plucked,tweezed or waxed. It’s been hard but I’ve been committed.

Any ideas? What should I do going forward?

#9

Here is a picture to give you an idea.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/22478623/photo%20(1)%20-%20Copy.JPG
You can copy the link and paste it into a browser. I don’t know how to link.

Pretty much every 2.5 weeks the hair grows back like that. Prickly.

I called up another electrolysis place and they suggest coming in every 10 days. Is this normal? Most of the people on this site go every 4 weeks, no?

#10

How often you have appointments depends on you entirely. Most people go when they have enough hair to justify making an appointment, given the effort in going there. Do you have all this hair cleared each time you go? You should. It shouldn’t take more than 15mins… maybe 30 if there are hairs that don’t show up in the pic.

#11

Fuzzybear: I looked at your image & if you came into my office I would advise you that you are a victim of “paradoxical hypertrichosis after laser epilation”. Look it up on Google, there are many, many reports & studies on this and it is very eye opening. There are also some dermatologists that will not treat you (Indian & Mediterranean descent) as there is a much greater chance of this happening. During the laser treatment, it is vital that the skin be cooled to help prevent this from happening also - did your laser person do this for you?

Per my research: The women who should NEVER have laser on their face (it seems to work well everywhere else) are ones that are primarily of Mediterranean or Indian descent with type 3 or higher skin tone, have an ill-defined hairline, young between 18-30 years and have thick black hair on their head. I have also seen PHALE (Paradoxical Hypertrichosis after Laser Epilation) in women that were not Mediterranean or Indian but had all the other conditions present. Almost universally, (based on my customers) women with these conditions are affected by Paradoxical Hypertrichosis (PHALE)if they have more than 2 laser treatments and the skin has not been cooled.

At this time, I am treating 5 women for PHALE. I became aware of this last year after some of my customers wanted to try laser and I encouraged them to do so. After laser treatment, the hairs on their faces began growing in thicker, in areas where there was no hair before and down the neck. Myself & my customers are all working together and basically compiling a “diary of sorts” so that we can help other women affected by this. We have found through trial & error that only the blend seems to really affect the growth patterns and halt the continued hair growth. I have tried thermolysis in all kinds of frequencies - keeping in mind the fragility of type 3 skin and without prolonged success. In the areas treated by the blend, there is a tremendous reduction in hair growth. What basically happens is that ALL the hair in the laser affected and surrounding areas are put into active growth (anagen) stage by the laser (researchers believe the laser heats the skin and causes this condition but it is not a proven conclusion). The hair continues to grow and get stronger & thicker if they are not treated effectively by the blend. I support the treatment of anagen hairs only (having my customers shave or trim down to the skin line & leave only 2-3 days growth) and have found this to be a very successful way to treat these hairs,

The laser companies that do the research also recommend that these customers affected by PHALE continue with laser treatments as it “should” eventually kill the hair. If you dig deep into the reports, you will find that many customers simply gave up on trying to treat the hairs with laser and so the laser companies wrote them in as “successfull” treatments by laser as they did not return for more laser treatments. One of my customers, of Indian descent, went for 9 laser sessions (they told her this would kill the new hair growth). She now has hair all over her face (from chin to nose) and down her neck -much of which continues to grow in length to almost 1-2 inches. She has a very demanding job and comes in sparodically (about once every 3 months or longer) and it has allowed me to see how the hair continues to grow in length & strength untreated. We have effectively treated her cheeks and they remain clear but she needs more frequent treatments to see improvement in her hairline & neck. My other PHALE customers come in once every 2 weeks for one hour or longer and we treat all the hairs on the face & neck.

I would love to hear from any one else that has knowledge on this - be it pro or con. I am open to all BUT very firm in my belief that laser has a good and bad side to it on the wrong persons.

Fuzzybear, on my part, please go to someone that is knowledgeable in the blend. In the right hands, this can be very comfortable and very successful for you. It kills the hair follicle - with thermolysis, it appears that the hair is able to repair itself and continue to grow.

I would also like to comment that my extensive research & knowledge helped one of my clients earn a $20,000 settlement against the laser office. This is a VERY real situation and laser technicians want to keep it a secret. On my current customers all the laser places told them it was their hormones, the shaving, etc. that caused the hair growth - NOT !!

#12

Stopit&tidyup:yes, I have it all cleared each time I go.

Spaqueen2: you seem very knowledge about this topic. I heard that lasers cause hair growth on darker skin types but I figured it out after I got the problem. I can do nothing but move forward. I would have liked to get laser on other parts of my body, but I won’t dare now.

I’m very hesitant about finding a new electrologist. None of them will give me a straight answer on how long this will take to clear up. I do not want to spend another 2.5 years with the same problem.

Do any of you have an estimate? How long between treatments and how many treatments, I’ll need?

Thanks so much for your comments!

#13

Honestly, I don’t have an estimate on how long it will take. If you came to me - I would be honest with you - tell you how the laser affected you and what we’ve found to be the best treatment on similar patients (using the blend). There are approximately 3600 hairs or more per square inch on your face - so if all are put into active growth by the laser it could take quite a while. Your absolute best bet is to make sure that each hair is destroyed (by the blend - in my mind)in each treatment and then you will start seeing improvement.

Right now my customers & I are gauging the hair growth and trying to come up with an idea of treatment time but each case varies on the amount of hair per patient. We are seeing improvements more now that my customers understand that staying on schedule is very important and working only in the blend.

As far as doing laser on your body - Laser seems to work well on other parts of the body …BUT you have to be sure that it doesn’t treat (or burn) your skin rather than the hair. Lasers seek the darkest spots and treats them - whether it is your hair or your skin …but the technology is getting better. I do not do laser so I am not up on the latest & greatest of lasers but I have researched the information a lot. FYI… Most lasers that are approved for type 3 skin or higher are tested on oriental skin which has very little hair (a VERY interesting fact). I think laser is terrific for many and works exceptionally on the underarm & bikini areas on most people. But for anyone with type 3 or higher skin type & of Indian & Mediterranean descent you need to study, research and go into it realizing that you are taking a chance on burning your skin and not removing unwanted hair. There are many lawsuits & settlements against laser companies for laser burns on the internet. The prevailing thread is that most are on type 3 skin or higher.

#14

Hi All,

I went to a new place for electrolysis. I asked for the blend method. The zapping caused my skin to vibrate, if that makes sense. Is that normal?

I only had her do my chin. The skin came out bumpy and there are black dots in some spots. I’ve never had lumpy skin before after electrolysis. I’m not sure if the black dots are hairs she missed or dead skin of some sort.

Normally, my skin looks very “clean” after electrolysis. All the hairs are gone and the skin is soft/smooth. Just a bit of reddness. I don’t feel that is true after this session. Is this normal?

She said it would take about 15-20 treatments and that I should come in every week. However, with the other place I went to, I went every 2.5 weeks after regrowth. I don’t know if it’s legit to go every week or not. Any thoughts?

Also, I didn’t let her work on my upper lip. Those hairs are fine and I think blend might be too much. Also, I don’t want scabbing on my face.

Thanks Folks.

#15

Yes Michael, I believe that those hairs are not removed properly.

The short interval between sessions is a good clue that something is wrong. The thickness of the hair is another clue. With so little time between sessions, the electrologist could easily treat the hair stimulated by hormones before those hairs acquire this thickness.

#16

I have tiny scabs all over my chin. Is this normal?
Should I look for a new electrologist?

I’m really glad I didn’t have her do my upper lip!

#17

Can you submit a picture?

Tiny scabs are of no concern. Clients just don’t like too much scabbing because people will ask questions. You will heal and all should be fine. I would not run away from your electrologist, but do talk to her about your concern.

#18

Your skin type can scab easily, but the concerning part is the recomendKation of weekly treatments. If Michael and Josefa are right, and personally I agree with them, there should be no growth through for several weeks.

#19

Fuzzybear:

I’m glad that you tried the blend BUT I’m not sure that’s what you actually got. Your chin vibrating could be too high galvanic (my thought, as galvanic current has a feeling of intensity if not blended correctly with thermolysis to offset this)or too high thermolysis OR it may just be your getting used to the intensity of the blend. However, if you have crusts/scabs around the treated areas - the thermolysis portion was not correct for your skin type and definitely too high, in my mind. My blend customers may have a slight redness and possibly a FEW bumps right after the treatment (if they are ruddy and/or have hyper sensitive skin mostly) BUT all bumps & redness are gone within 30 minutes to one hour…absolutely no exceptions!!

Special note: Please keep in mind that the blend ONLY treats the hair follicle - not the surface of the skin - all the treatment is below the surface of the skin. Your skin should look wonderful within one hour or within minutes after the treatment. Darker skin is best treated by the blend for all types of hairs as you don’t have a risk of hyperpigmenting, etc. from the heat of thermolysis - your skin type is very fragile and must be cared for gently. If you have crusts and scabbing - this is a sign of too much thermolysis rather than a true blend of currents.

The frustrating thing about the blend, honestly, is finding someone that can do it correctly. You might try asking a few questions when you search for the right blend electrologist. Many electrologists use the blend programs that come programed on the machine but I, personally, have found most of them ineffective and always manually formulate the correct blend formula for each customer.

Questions to ask:

Do you customize the blend formula for each customer? (the blend is different on every customer based on the thickness of hair, hair resistance, oiliness/dryness of the skin, sensitivity, etc.) There is no one blend formula that works on all customers. I usually have 2-3 different formulas for each customer as some areas are more difficult/easier or the customers sensitivity is more or less on a given day. I keep a detailed record of each formula that I use on each customer on each visit. Does the electrologist have a customer log of the correct settings for each customer??

Each blend treatment needs to be a minimum of 6 seconds to be effective. Did the blend take this amount of time or shorter? You may be thinking - OMG - I’d die if it took that long !! BUT no…there are MANY ways to administer the blend to insure comfort & effectivess. Believe it or not, many of my customers fall asleep when being treated - and that always amazes me!!

Ask the electrologist to treat a few hairs and let you see (in a mirror) the turbulence or DC froth. If there is no froth - there is no blend. Turbulence or DC froth is a small pocket of lye that overflows from the follicle onto the surface of the skin - the follicle is filled completely with lye after a correct blend. (like a soup pot overflowing) This is non caustic to the skin but also an indicator of the electrologist finding the correct blend formula for your skin & follicles. This lye is formed by the electric (galvanic) current passing over the salt & water in your pore - the thermolysis is needed only to expedite the galvanic process and heat the lye.

I hope you continue to pursue the blend as I firmly believe that you need this to treat your Paradoxical Hypertrichosis. Good luck!!

1 Like
#20

This is a very helpful post from someone that knows the Blend method well. Good job.

I treat many, many people of color. I use one of the thermolysis modes, usually PicoFlash, Synchro or MultiPlex. Before that, I used MicroFlash. Hyperpigmentation is not a problem as a result of doing well-performed thermolysis with modern equipment. The dark-skinned client usually presents with some to severe hyperpigmentation BEFORE they get their first electrolysis treatment because of the shaving, tweezing, threading, ingrown hair picking they did BEFORE electrolysis was even started. As the rascally hair is permanently eliminated with the thermolysis mode I choose, the irritating hair is no longer causing a problem for the skin and the skin heals. There are no scabs. All action of the current takes place deep within the follicle so there is no surface reaction. The skin returns to normal within minutes? to hours?. Client tolerates treatments well. Some even have a nice rest in the process. Hyperpig gradually fades from the temporary methods they used prior to electrolysis within several months. Each hair takes less than a second to treat.

Just wanted to add this bit of information to give the hair consumer other perspectives to think about. The high tech epilators offer better thermolysis modes today. Coupled with a re-trained electrologist, it becomes another way to eliminate unwanted hair on all colors of skin for all structures of hair.