“Challenge”

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Please don’t think of the following as an antagonistic challenge: I’m interested in comparative “real world” data. And I am, thus far, unable to get any of my resident “laser friends” to get involved (wonder why that is?). Indeed, we have been close a few times but they have all backed-out for some puny reason.

So, here’s the “offer.” If you are going to have laser hair removal (confirmed), I will give you 5 hours (or more) of free electrolysis. Ideally, I would do the same area that you will be having “lasered,” e.g., a shoulder or an underarm. You can have any laser, be any skin type and do any area.

My only requirement is that you (or I) photograph the respective areas, carefully document the treatments and report your experiences on Hairtell. (With a follow-up photo session, say, a year or so after the event.) I’m not looking for “opinion,” but objective side-by-side data. Should you want to do this, we can discuss details.

I hope that other “weathered” electrologists might also make such an offer and, eventually, we might have a semblance of objective data. Now, wouldn’t that be nice?

www.bonoelectrolysis.com

#2

Although I doubt anyone will take up this offer, I have no problem matching that offer over here on the east coast.
Cue the song by KISS - You Got Nothing To Lose

#3

This would be fantastic. I agree with this offer.

#4

And, why am I not surprised that my Jossie and James rise to the occasion?

#5

Because we are like Electrolysis, ie, predictable.

#6

Those responsible for my MIS-education taught me to have no fear of such a situation.

#7

That’s a generous offer. The coincidence is I was thinking whether I should choose electrolysis for my underarms. I always thought laser is faster but after seeing Josefa’s work and others here in the forum, I am impressed with electrolysis. The only problem is that unfortunately, electrologists like you guys are hard to find.

#8

I HATE that some of us do quite a bit of “puffing.”* So, “what the hell!”

Underarms: my favorite. I charge a flat fee of $475 and guarantee it. Total treatment time has never exceeded 7 hours; cases in the hundreds. (Usually 5 - 6 hours total).

Okay, I “puffed” and now I feel TERRIBLE! This is a very bad thing to do … Well, maybe you can compair this to laser prices?

*Comments to make yourself look good and generate business.

#9

You have 30 years of experience which enables You to guarantee this. Do You believe You were able performing like that after 3 years?

(Actually i would be glad if i was able to offer flat rates on certain tasks. But after 3 years with a very slow start you simply do not have a) the experience and b) the customer basis to do be able to make such an offer)

Anyway - why do You post this here and not in the laser forums where the people You address are active?

#10

I’m sorry I didn’t understand the offer. Can you please explain me how it will work? Will you work on one underarm and ask us to get laser treatments on the other? If yes, Bryce has done something similar before. He treated half of his back with laser and the other half with electrolysis and followed up his treatments with full details and photographs here.

And yes, electrolysis won! :slight_smile:

#11

You are so very right, mumbaigirl. Might I add that I think LASER is a wonderful first start for underarm hair if the hair is very dark and very coarse. I always suggest that my clients do LASER FIRST and then come back to me for the sparse finer hairs later if they want to. My oldest daughter had her underarms lased and the results were IMPRESSIVE!. The deal was six treatments for $500, but she only needed five treatments and no follow up with electrolysis was desired because it wasn’t needed. Time for each session was five to ten minutes, so let’s say it took 1 hour to complete the project over a year and a half.

Bryce’s story resulted in success with electrolysis and any electrologist that followed his thread already knew it was safe bet to predict that the outcome would be - positive. I have had a few cases where I was working on more hair than I thought was normal after six sessions of LASER, but that is where variables come into play, such as hair color, hair structure and skin color and technical skill.

#12

Sounds great Michael. I would like to participate but I would have a criteria.

If you are willing to create a check list for participation and study and help develop a screening process check list, I would like to be a part of the tester group.

If there is someone who is currently getting lasered on the face, I would be happy to do the electrolysis on half of the face and participate in a comparative study and provide several hours of free treatment. I would ask that the client stop the laser on one side.

What are your thoughts Michael?

#13

Hi Arlene!

I’m pretty sure these side-by-sides will be very individualized studies. The scenario would be a patient that contacts you who is considering laser or electrolysis. Through that patient, you might be able to set-up your own protocol. It won’t be easy. To date I have not found one laser outfit that had any interest in cooperating with my “ancient technology.” They “laughed.”

Jean Ogren already has developed an AEA-approved protocol for studies comparing electrolysis methods and techniques: her efforts yielded no “takers.” I suppose most business people are concerned with economic survival and less interested in doing studies for the “general well-being” of the patient population. I’m still hopeful. Nice to see that most folks here are of the same mindset on this issue.

Behind my intentions? We can “beat ‘em!” (At some point, there will be a paper or something to give meaning to this.)

#14

Michael - is there any way you can put some ads about in your local area?

You really want someone who has already decided to do Laser (so is willing to pay for it) and then convince them to let you do the twin area for free using electrolysis.

#15

That would be hard - mostly for the client and for us, although on the long term we will win. In facial treatments the laser yields results pretty fast, at least apparently. Its true outcome is often visible after more than one year when the treated hair comes back.The laser side will even be delayed on the long term; in some cases the laser treatments will be completly lost effort. So that side it will still need to be treated intensely with electrolysis when “our” side is more or less done. So this split face look might last easily over more than 3 years - first due to the seemingly faster progress of the laser, later on because the laser side will have to be retreted intensly with electrolysis.

Can You imagine any client willing to experience that over such a long time in such an exposed area of the body?

#16

No, I can’t. Body work is a safer option to study, like underams. Again, the conclusion is already known, isn’t it?

There is a need for both modalities in this world of hair sorrow and woe. One or the other is going to get that hair in a decent time as long as other factors are present.

#17

“Again, the conclusion is already know[n], isn’t it?”

So, which truly independent published paper are you referring to? Which body of objective fact?

I have not yet read these papers and studies. (From the industry yes.) Seems you already have these data … maybe you should publish.

#18

What is your hypothesis exactly? This exercise is suppose to prove what and help whom? We already know that both modalities help the hairy and we are not highly trained research scientists that do controlled, double blind prospective studies. What are you looking for that you don’t already know or haven’t already observed in your long career? How is this practical? How is this going to change what we already do now to help our clients?

Bryce’s thread was very compelling with his side by side comparison of laser and electrolysis. The real world for me is doing what I do - electrolysis - documenting along the way with pictures and charts, getting my clients finished ASAP, while leaving them with beautiful skin and re-newed self-esteem.

I support our laser specialists who have the same goals for their clients. Sometimes both worlds co-mingle in a symbiotic relationship to enhance the hair removal experience. What am I not understanding about your stated goal(s)?

#19

I will still continue to get my own data and not rely on what other experts tell me is the truth.

#20

Okay.