My electrologist made a comment last week that has me bothered. He told me i shouldn’t be using so much numbing cream as it can poison you and even cause death. I do electrologist 2x a week. on the first day i put cream on my side burns, a little on my chin and lip. On the second day that week I do one side of my buttocks and cover that side completely. Should I be worried about lidocaine poisoning?
Don’t worry.
The (only) death, I believe, was a person that used this on her legs for laser treatment. The amount used was significant and was rapidly absorbed (and the person was … uncommonly … allergic to lidocaine).
The “half-life” of lidocaine is 30-minutes. Thus, you have no chance of a “build-up” from 2X per week treatments. If you do not get “hives” or other skin reaction from the Lido … that’s a pretty good bet it’s safe for you to use.
Overall, the amount you are using on your face is inconsequential. If you are super-worried, I can ask a physician.
Lilprincess,
What Michael says is correct in this case.When I starrted electrolysis I had concerns over this ( even though I never used the stuff back then) and researched the “one case” of death that resulted extensively. It is no longer mentioned on the product inserts of EMLA or at the FDA. Int he one case where death occurred the person used extremely large amounts of lidocaine in repeated amount and wrapped this very large area where it was applied in saran wrap, further increasing absorption. Having now used lidocaine on both myself and people I’ve worked on I can tell you there is little risk of such effects when not misused.So unless you are speading it on in thick coats then wrapping it in celophane across both legs, you dont have much to worry about.
Seana
I also had my usual guardian angel point out to me what I had forgotten, that the one case of death the person also spread over the groin region where there are a lot of mucus membranes which would also lead to increased absorbtion .
The two areas of concern with lidocaine use typically involve topical applications (pharmacy-made creams) and tumescent application for liposuction. Check this yourself on the internet: "lidocaine deaths.’ (I assisted with a lipo with tumescent with Dr. Perkins and it was HORRIBLE: Don’t do it … EVER! Fearsome and disgusting!)
To give you an idea of the danger levels of lidocaine (or lignocaine, UK, NZL), a person of 70 kilograms has been given as much as >4,500 mg in a single dose (for tumescent application). By contrast a person using lidocaine (subcutaneously) for electrolysis, will use <20 mg per hour … and this will be dispersed over several smaller applications. So, consider the difference between 4,500 mg and 20 mg …
Even with these problems, lidocaine is extremely safe. I only found one death in the last few years from dental use of lidocaine (a true allergy).
In the "old days,’ NOVOCAINE was indeed a dangerous medication. However, "Novocaine’ has not been used since 1947! Still, the use of the word "novocaine’ is in vernacular use as a generic term for "local anesthetic.’ Sort of like calling all tissues "Kleenix.’
https://www.ismp.org/newsletters/acutecare/articles/20050210-1.asp
PS. I love my new “Avatar!!”
Thank you!!! I was thinking about slowing down my electrolysis journey and doing less time. I googled issues with lidocaine and read about the death so I freaked out! So glad I can continue thank you for the help!!!
Yes, "Princess,’
The internet can be a source of great information … or a source of mis-information and trickery. Yep, "freak-out’ time too (I do it all the time, as well!). The internet is the "Wild West of information.’
The key difficulty is the incessant foisting of totally contradictory information. I’m "pre-diabetic’ and DAMN I can’t find a definitive source for diet. One expert says: meat, dairy and vegetables and zero carbs (most diabetes resources) … and another expert says: no meat or dairy of any kind and lots of "starches’ (John McDougall, MD). So … just who do your believe? SHITE!
I suppose the only thing to do is read more and make up your own mind (experiment?), because the "experts’ don’t agree either … on any subject!
Forget the internet… in January, my endocrinologist termed me diabetic since I had two fasting glucoses over 126 despite a 5.8 A1C. My primary declared that, instead, I have “impaired glucose tolerance.”
As of my latest A1C (4.9, which is roughly equivalent to an average blood glucose of 90ish) last month, my endocrinologist wanted to keep the diabetes tag while my diabetes educator (RN and registered dietician) that I saw 30 minutes later in the same office said that I probably don’t have anything at all, but ended up diagnosing me with “controlled type 2” so that insurance would pay for the visit.
In my case, I keep things controlled by eating a mostly strict low carb diet, with the only carbs I eat having a friendly glycemic index/load, preferably with lots of fiber. I’m also doing my best to eliminate artificial sweeteners from my diet (which our body can’t digest, but research says that it can change our intestinal flora, not to mention that the sweetness still triggers an insulin dump since the body is expecting to need it).
But yes, the point still stands… whether on the internet or face to face, talk to two experts in the same area and you’re likely to get two different opinions. Why? Research is often poorly conducted, with a conclusion started before the research and the research directed to confirm the conclusion. One expert has something that works for them while another has something else that works for them. Ultimately, there are far more variables than most people want to consider, or at least too many to practically weed down the one core truth.
Oh, “bloody hell!”
I suppose I’m “in for it” too …
Hi all,
I have a first hand experience in this situation (with EMLA cream).
The risk of EMLA is not toxicity, it is its potential to drop your blood pressure below what your body needs to function. But the amount needed for that seems strongly individual.
In my case, I had a client for full legs laser hair removal with very low pain threshold, so she requested emla all over. We kept within the recommended by our clinic’s medical protocol of 4 big tubes (120g cream at 5% lidocaine). We applied simultaneously all over her legs. 45 min later when I went to start her laser treatment she just said " I feel I am going to faint!" and fainted. It scared the living lights out of me as I was a newbie! I hadn’t moved her from the bed, so there was no sudden standing up when you would get a head rush. I put her feet up and head low, removed all reminder of emla, sprayed her with water and slapped her face, so she came around in under a minute. I took her BP and it was low 80/50 at that point. Talking through what her day was like to try and figure out why she fainted it appeared she hadn’t eaten yet although it was the afternoon, nor drunk any water; she had been running around all day, she hadn’t slept much that night and she was exhausted when she arrived at the clinic. She was only a tiny lady - short and small framed, maybe 50kg max. So we concluded the combination of all the above factors - diet, dehydration, tiredness, low weight lead to her BP dropping from the absorption of 120g cream simultaneously. She continued to have treatments, but we split her procedure in 2 and only applied 2 tubes of emla at a time (60 g) and she was fine.
There is always the question Would she have fainted if we didn’t use EMLA? We will never know.
However, Princess, I don’t believe that the amount of cream you are applying on that schedule will harm you. Make sure you don’t skip meals and keep fit and you will be fine, just as with everything else.
ohmygoodness, 120 grams at 5% is a HUGE AMOUNT even spread on the legs.
I’m wondering if any laser clinics utilize Nitrous Oxide ("Laughing gas’) for mild anesthesia? I know of a couple electrologists that use this with declared "good results.’ I have no experience with this medication … just curious. (Google this yourself. Interesting?)
That’s a lot more than it is permissible to use here in Germany. You may not cover more than the size of DIN A3 (i.e. roughly two letter sized sheets of paper), and, as far as i recall, the application is limited to 60 grams spread through a day.
Excellent advice, EmancipatedElect. My experience has been similar. The small amount of carbs in my diet is from non-starchy vegetables, and the pre-diabetes is no longer an issue in my overall health (although the D word lingers in my medical records from ONE high fasting reading). Mike, concerning dairy, milk (whole through skim) has considerable amounts of sugar, while cheese does not. Just something to consider, best wishes.
Yes, Beate, following that case the protocol was changed to only 60g a day. This was about 9 years ago. I was just following protocol by our medical adviser. And at the time we had many clients taking full advantage of the 4 tubes limit without any consequences. But it only takes one to go wrong, doesn’t it.
As an electrologist, I can only work on a smallish area at a time. I think the most I have ever used on a client is about 4-5 grams over an area that included the neck and cheeks/chin. That was a sufficient amount, that the pain from electrolysis was negligable. In this amount of doseage, I think it unlikely to see the kind of reaction that has resulted in death and I think this is probably a more common approach…
Mhmm Seana, last weekend i did roughly a quarter of a man’s back in one session. 2nd clearance, he was using numbing. Especially in the later stages of treatments done in long sessions the areas which are numbed will be quite large and the limits of any numbing application will be relevant.
120g seems like a lot. I have heard you should not go over 60g, but have heard that it is dependent on how much you weigh. Using a small amount on the face is fine, but using so much on both legs seems risky to me.