Bumpy lip months after treatment

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#1

Hello everyone. This is my first post/question so forgive me if it isn’t done correctly or if it not in the correct category. I have a question about scarring from electrolysis. From reading online and on this forum it seems like scarring is a very rare happening when you have a licensed and board certified electrolgist. But still, we get Mark’s on our face and it hard to keep your brain from thinking you are that 1 in a 1000 person.

All I have read about scarring from electrolysis seems as though when they happen they are in the form of pits, or indentations or some other form of being below the skin’s natural level. Not sure if that is true or not. I have a series of bumpy spots on my upper lip, I had thick coarse hair so I’m sure a good current was needed, but I didn’t see much in the way of negative affects. Some crusts formed which came off on their own in less than a week, swelling of the upper lip but leveled off within a week, and my electrolgist commented a few times how my skin was healing so well. I thought everything was great. Then about 6 months ago, 6 or 7 months after treatment started, I looked in the mirror of my car and it looked like I had these deep smokers wrinkles. And I’m not a smoker. After getting home and looking in my makeup mirror I could see I didn’t really have “deep wrinkles” but rather they were an optical illusion of spaces in between the lumpy spots.

Could lumpy patches be scars? I’m hoping it’s just inflammation and the collagen turnover in Mr Bono’s videos… but having been 6 months, my brain is panicking thinking I traded facial hair for a horrible complexion. Can electrolysis scar be raised patches or are they always “pits” or “indentations”?

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#2

Without seeing a photo of your bumps I can’t be sure. However, I have to tell you that yes … electrolysis can cause tiny vertical lines on the lips. Dermatologist James Schuster did a presentation on this at one of his conventions; and included this subject in his video on electrolysis. He called these vertical lines “raggadies.”

Although most electrologists DO see this, they seldom equate it to the electrolysis treatment itself; and will categorically deny it. I don’t. Such wrinkles mostly form when doing aggressive treatments on very large hairs (such as a beard). If you are able to see an “un-photoshopped” photo of Caitlyn Jenner, you will see that her upper lip has these lines.

Furthermore, these fine lines can be injected with “fillers” such as Belotero. I have seen great results from this product, because it can be injected shallow in the skin. Other fillers cannot be injected “just under the skin” because they create a blue color … not with Belotero. I would specifically ask for this filler: https://www.zwivel.com/blog/belotero/

Also, you can check the following regarding lip wrinkles: Lip Lines: 13 Best Treatments for Wrinkles Above Lips | Colorescience

#3

Thank you so much for the response! I really have tried to take some pictures but it’s really hard to capture a picture that they can be seen because if you are look right at me they don’t show and in well lit places you don’t see them either. It’s only under certain lighting from the side that maybe casting the shadow that I can see them. I guess once the small bumps go down I’ll be able to see if they are wrinkles or just spaces between the bumps. My big concern was the bumps themselves. I assume if the bumps are not scars they will flatten to skin surface once the collagen turnover is complete ( I am trying to tell myself the lumps are just “sandbags” from your video ) but if the bumps are scars do they level to skin surface or stay raised indefinitely?

#4

The bumps will probably return to skin lever. Pebbling is rare on the lips … I have never seen it.

#5

To give you an idea visually of the lumps and the flat areas between the lumps, it looks very much like what you called “orange peel” effect in your chin video. ( Yes, I have been watching your YouTube videos trying to self diagnose ) but this is on my upper lip and i assumed that was just a chin area issue? Can you get the ( hopefully temporary :crossed_fingers::crossed_fingers: ) orange peel effect on the upper lip? And if so I’d assume it will need months and months to become smooth skin again?

#6

Correct on all you have said …

#7

Thank you for being patient with all of my follow up questions, I really do appreciate all of your answers. I wanted to ask about treatment. As far as electrolysis goes, can I continue with electrolysis on this “orange peel skin” or should I take a few months break to let it recover? ( You said I was “correct” so I think that means the lip can get orange peel and it will resolve over months??? ) and also does anything help this collagen turnover process such as using retin a to help it along or would that be counter productive for skin trying to heal? My lip treatment at this point is a few sporadic hairs every 4-5 weeks.

#8

Not seeing you, or doing the work myself, I can’t answer your questions. However, I would go ahead with treatment since it’s very limited now. Don’t do any other treatments until you see where you are at the finish.

#9

Hi both! Hope it’s ok if I post a question relating to this topic? I’ve also wondered about this possibility thank you Michael for sharing such detailed information. I was wondering if the chances of this occuring are specific to any particular modality? Or can it happen with any modality if it is too aggressive? I was also wondering if there is a typical timeline with how it might show up like if it comes very quickly after over treatment or slowly - I have read lots of your posts on this forum and remember you mentioning about how the swelling of electrolysis can be present for a considerable time after treatment itself. Hope it’s ok to ask these questions, I’m just keen to learn as much as I can - I had some really bad marks from thermolysis in this area last year (I posted photos here and you and Seanna very kindly reassured me it would resolve - thank you again!) Many thanks!

#10

Of course it is ok for you to add to this post! I’d like to assume this is a very friendly community where we are all here to try to help each other. So yes, your addition is very welcome! However, I think you need to wait for Mr Bono or one of the other professionals to chime in with a response to your concerns as I don’t have the answers. I hope someone will answer for you. Trust me, I know how stressful and worrisome it is dealing with issues on your face that may or may not go away. I cry daily over the thought that I traded facial hair for a horrible complexion. All I can hope is the water from my tears and the 12-18 months some say the skin needs to heal will restore my skin.

#11

First off, let me say that I get several emails each week on these subjects. My frustration is that nobody should ever have to worry about getting permanent marks from electrolysis. Of course, many clients are only seeing normal post-treatment manifestations; and I sympathize with them because they probably didn’t know what to expect. Those with actual damage? Sometimes I need to take a pill and go for a nap … I get so stressed-out. I’m already getting a headache just thinking about these nasty issues.

Question 1: does a certain modality represent the potential for more skin damage? This is a very technical question, but … all modalities are about the same. For my own understanding, using thermolysis properly can represent the potential for doing LESS skin damage. Straight Galvanic, while claimed to be “the safe modality,” creates a column of chemical destruction; and if left on too long (or too high) can create a nice (albeit small) column of scar tissue. Sometimes these dot-like scars can be seen when the skin is stretched.

By contrast, those using thermolysis (and blend with thermolysis) are literally placing the current below the skin level. This effect can be enhanced by using either tapered or insulated needles. Still, if the current is too high, or on too long, skin damage can result. It’s a balancing act.

Question 2: When do scars show up? For most electrologists, we can tell if the skin will potentially scar almost immediately. You have to question the electrologist working with you. Unfortunately, over-the-years, I have seen electrologists panic MORE than their clients. Basically, it’s going to take many months, post-treatment, to really see how this all resolves. Sometimes clients get so used to seeing the “mark” that they forget about it. I think some electrologists dismiss the problem and just hope the client stops seeing it?

I don’t think anything I said here really helps … SORRY! I have to take a pill now.

#12

Thank you for letting me contribute I really appreciate it :slight_smile:
And thank you for your kind words, I really hope your skin resolves as time goes on. If it helps when I posted last year I had some red holes around my mouth from thermolysis at what I assume was too high a setting. I only had two sessions and these marks were the outcome when I posted on here it had been three months and the holes were not changing so had pretty accepted they were permanent. Mike, Seanna and Dee took and look and were really reassuring they would resolve over time. It’s now probably 5 months past and after no change they are starting to look better. The biggest thing I found to help was taking high strength vitamin c in the form or a dissolvable tablet. Though it could be time but thought I would share. Appreciate your concern is more around upper lip wrinkling from electrolysis which I am also concerned about but just if it’s helpful to share I thought I would. I have a tonne of photos of the initial reactions which did present like red lumps too if it’s helpful. Wishing you all the best :slight_smile:

#13

Thank you for your informative and highly detailed reply! And apologies appreciate this question must come up so much so I really appreciate you taking time to reply to it.

Your information on when these marks show up is really helpful. Not entirely sure how accurate this is but in places I have read about wrinkles forming from electrolysis (as you were both discussing earlier in the thread before I hijacked a bit - sorry!) But the thing I have read which I still don’t understand is many saying that the wrinkles or pitting specifically in the upper lip area shows up years later? I guess without wanting to ask you too many similar questions as I appreciate you’ve shared lots already - but is this likely that the damage would suddenly show up later on like that? Or is it more as you say pretty instant to create the wrinkle/pit?
Thank you again for sharing your knowledge with us, and again apologies for the repetitive nature of my questions! Also pleased to mention that the marks you, Dee and Seanna advised me on are starting to heal :slight_smile: