Wow this all very interesting, I wish it didn’t fly over my head soo fast, but you could theoretically make these devises and sell them to locals for DIY and that would only be for the adamant at home DIY. Not meaning to sell to anyone who had no knowledge of the fundamentals of electrolysis. But hey I’m always thinking of a way to make a profit. Marthajoy you are now the Hairtell resident Macgiver.
Great job.
Catiagent;
I wish to try and keep things simple, but I realize that I am probably the exception on here with the electronics background that I have. These first project steps that I am taking, is basically to prove or disprove whether 27 mhz is better than 13.5 mhz at hair removal. In order to accomplish the test, I need a 27 mhz machine that can duplicate the timing and power levels of a 13.5 mhz machine. That is where I am headed at this point.
If things do prove out that 27 mhz is indeed faster and less painfull, my desire is to make a computerized epilator. By that I mean a epilator that attaches to a full computer with software that talks to the epilator telling it what settings to use. There are actually commercial devices being sold that already allow this to be accomplished easily. You can buy Variable Resistors that the computer can step 256 steps from min to max and back again. So instead of a control with a knob, it just talks to the usb port on a computer and you can accurately set the control every time to 1/256 of a rotation.
These settings could then be stored on a conventional computer and all settings could be printed as desired. Basically the epilator would consist of power supply, converted CB with controls removed. Epilator controls with USB adapter and the RF output. It would be very plain looking, but all settings would be controllable from a computer via the usb port.
that is something that I feel might be worth marketing. It is something that could be simple or comprehensive in what it can perform, depending on what the operator wants from the machine.
These beginning projects, are being put online, mostly for those who do not have much in the way of money, but who are willing to invest time in learning both electronics and Electrolysis.
This morning I am beginning to wonder if I really need the 4013 flip flop, and instead just use a 556 and the 4011 quad 2 input nand gate. The second half of the 556 could perform what the multivibrator is doing in regards to multiple pulses. I know, I probably just went over many heads.
A 556 chip is a chip that has two 555 circuits in one chip. A 4011 chip is a chip that has four individual 2 input And circuits that become inverted on the output. That means that when both inputs go high the output of that gate goes low. If either of the inputs are low then the output remains high. What we need to trigger the CB is a low. So this works great. I just need to try things out before proceeding.
The 4013 chip is a chip that has two circuits known as Flip Flops, and I was initially use it as the one shot timer. But I encountered the problem that one, trigger was tied to power supply instead of ground and when foot is on switch longer than the pulse it gives two pulses. It can be used this way if the operator knows of the situation, but feel that a pulse only when depressed is prefered. So now is a bit of experiementing. But I do know for a fact, this is going to work now, it is just getting the circuitry where I want it.
Considering that I perform Electrolysis for a livelihood, I certainly feel it is best if someone can go to someone trained in performing electrolysis if they can. But I also realize that far too many transgendered individuals just cannot afford the costs when it comes to all the other expenses one has to pay for. So if they are willing to invest in learning, they might just make good use of something like I am making.
Hi,
I’d love to help out on this project! From a hardware standpoint, I follow you on the circuitry stuff (though I’m unfamiliar with some of the ICs besides the basic 555/556 timer et al), but my experience is lacking a bit in the actual construction of power supplies (I know some theory, but I would have to do some reading (or a lot of thinking about physics) to just construct a supply from scratch, I don’t have that practical implementation knowledge in my head yet. From a software perspective, and a software/hardware bridge perspective, I think I can do a lot for this project! =)
Layla
Layla;
Your help offer is appreciated. In regards to the power supply. What I have done, is to purchase a 13.8Vdc power supply from Fry’s Electronics. The supply I purchased was $26.95. It is made by Samlex and the model number is RPS-1203. It is rated for 3 amps Continous and 5 amps with a 50% duty cycle. This is way more than needed to supply a little CB radio. The transformer is really rugged and there is enough room to and more circuitry.
I have just etched me my first circuit card and I need to photocopy it so that others can copy my circuit. What I will do is add another Regulator using the same transformer. This added Regulator will vary its output. I still need to purchase a few more parts but I am getting close. What I will do after completing the variable supply is to record how much the output power drops based on the reduction to the final output transistor voltage reduction. The numbers should correlate even if a different supply is used.
So this Modified RPS-1203 will have 3 banana jacks on the front.
Gnd, 13.8vdc and Adjustable voltage. It will have a potentiometer, which I am estimating at being about 2.5 Kohms to 3 Kohms. I will have resisters on each side of the Pot. to adjust both upper and lower limits. But others will be able to substitute set resisters after I determine what the set values should be.
I will make up a spreadsheet or table with the respective power vs. voltage levels and place it on my webpage.
I have played a little bit with the 555 timer circuit for the One shot, and it does trigger only when depressing the foot switch. I am now in the process of trying to interface it to the 4013 flip flop for duration timing. But I am still in the breadboarding stage on that circuitry.
I very much welcome your help.
P.S. The supply is made in China, so it might be available to you in Shanghai. Samlex Electric Co. LTD.
The address is not posted on the box.
I have thought a bit about the electronics level of most persons that might be wanting to take advantage of this option. I now realize that probably etching their own circuit cards etc, may make it too complicated. So rather than my designing a variable power supply, I have found a kit at http://store.qkits.com which for a very resonable price will ship all the parts.
This is for a 3 amp power supply, but in reality, a one amp would probably work. But in designing the prototype I want a larger capability. But since the price is not bad, I say go for the 3 amp unit.
The transformer in the 13.8 volt power supply that I purchased at fry’s and is noted on my webpage is plenty husky to power both the 13.8 volt and the Variable power supply as well. I will incorporate both within the same supply.
I am still looking around for kits that might be usable for the Pulse Generator. So far I have not found what is needed for this project.
Variable Regulator Kit 0 - 30V, 3A (#FK809): 1
Item Total: $14.95
For anyone interested:
I now have made a preliminary Power Level Assessment using a
variable power supply vs Power Output:
Power Supply Voltage RF output Peak to Peak
1 vdc 8 vp-p
2 vdc 13 vp-p
3 vdc 18 vp-p
4 vdc 25 vp-p
5 vdc 30 vp-p
6 vdc 35 vp-p
7 vdc 40 vp-p
8 vdc 45 vp-p
9 vdc 50 vp-p
10 vdc 55 vp-p
11 vdc 60 vp-p
12 vdc 64 vp-p
13 vdc 68 vp-p
The voltage is fed to one end of RFC10 which is in the back left hand side of the radio. I unsoldered both leads of RFC10. Took the top lead which is the longest lead and bent it upwards and reinstalled RFC 10 back into its original position. The lower leads goes into the same hole that it came out of. The one closest to the back of the radio. The now open lead of RFC10 is connected to another wire that is installed into the plastic retainer for the power leads and routed out of the unit. Power connections are as follows. Original Red Wire - 13.8 volts DC positive. Black Wire to Ground of both supplies and the new wire, which for me was white goes to the variable positive supply.
For blend 1 volt is probably about all the RF energy that will be needed. Full power is going to require less than 0.1 seconds for epilation. If one wants to use manual control thermolysis, then my guess is that you would want to use no more than 7 or 8 volts for power level but I have not tried this yet, but I do know that 70vp-p lead to over-treatment.
This could be the simplest epilator conversion. You could just build the power circuit and use the mic switch for keying the power. Not a whole lot of construction needed to get to this point.
About Potentiometer values for the power supply.
A 5Kohm resister sets scale at about 1 volt to 33 volts.
a 2kohm resister should set the scale at about 1 volt to 13.5 volts.
One could use a 2kohm linear pot or if more control is desired, use a rotory switch with say a 500 ohm pot and 3 500 ohm resisters on the switch to set voltage scale. I have a 6 position switch, so if I used 5 - 500 ohm resisters and a 500 ohm pot, the total resistance would equal 3Kohms and would put the maximum voltage out of the variable power supply at about 20 vdc. Or as an alternative, I could use say resisters of 400 ohms instead of 500 and have some overlap between scales. with maximum voltage being in between the two.
P.S. one trick to get the power supply to go down to 0 volts instead of about 1 volt, is to put two power rectifiers in series with the output lead. There will be about 0.6 volts drop across each rectifier dropping supply voltage by about 1.2 vdc.
The kit is designed for full bridge Rectification. The Transformer in the power supply in which I am installing it in has a center tap, and so only two rectifiers instead of four will be needed for full rectification. Three leads will need to be wired from the transformer to the kit inputs. Hot, hot and centertap for ground. The remaining 2 rectifiers will work wonderfully for this voltage drop as they are rated at full 3 amps.
I will be able to give more details when my kit arrives and I get it installed in my supply.
Anyway, just a little update. I have not as yet updated my website with this information, as my server is updating their system and I cannot get onto my pages.
I am wondering what others on here thinks;
I have come across a professional function/pulse generator that sells for about $280. This generator seems to have everything that this project needs triggering/gating wise. It is even controlled in a way that I think is easier for an electrologist. Rather than variables for frequency which an operator would have to transpose to time, the controls are Pulse Width and Pulse Spacing. It can invert the output which is what the converted CB requires - I.E. a negative going pulse.
With this generator, vertually any pulse modality could be set up including syncro at 27 mhz.
I will continue working on the little circuit namely the 555 & 4013 trigger circuit. But for the cost of this device, it really does add a whole lot to the project. If one considers that they may spend $100 for the cb conversion the addition of even $300 still brings the cost to $400. Yes that is getting into the range that one might be able to pick up a used epilator on Ebay. That is why I am wondering what others on here think. Would the operation be too complicated for most? Information about the generator can be found at:
http://www.globalspecialties.com/4001.html
I will post some information on settings that Flash and Thermolysis generally are for different areas of the body, since books general do not give these details.
Thermolysis
Chin area Durations 0.06 - 0.16 with voltages of 60 vp-p to 70 vp-p
Neck area Durations 0.06 - 0.16 with voltages of 63vp-p to 67vp-p
Eyebrows Durations 0.04 - 0.16 With voltages of 60vp-p to 66vp-p
Upper Lip Durations 0.04 - 0.16 with voltages of 57vp-p to 70vp-p
Under Arm Durations 0.08 - 0.2 with levels of 57vp-p to 70vp-p
Chest Durations 0.06 - 0.16 with levels of 60vp-p to 70vp-p
Pubic Area Durations 0.08 - 0.18 with levels of 58vp-p to 72vp-p
Legs Durations 0.06 - 0.18 with levels of 62vp-p to 70vp-p
This is kind of a rough guide as time increases power drops a bit then slowly increase until making another duration step.
Generally start at lower levels of duration and levels and make adjustments as needed. Use of insulated probes allows levels to be lowered a little bit as energy is more concentrated at the tip. These numbers are for a machine at 13.5 mhz. We will see how much affect the increase in frequency makes.
My Clareblend Ultrablend is also using 13.5 mhz and its Flash mode is in Tenths of a Second. I have found that the meter dial does nothing more than to indicate how far the knob is turned. The Output transistor is limited to no more the 65vp-p and its levels in the operating range varies from 15vp-p to near 60vp-p Turning the know past the green area does not cause any added voltage level and it fact does tend to drop. The manual has suggested timing periods of 3-6 tenths of a second. With these durations I would expect most people to use about 30vp-p to 40vp-p true level.
I will try and post a table about energy levels if people are interested.
Everyone interested;
This project does seem to be taking a bit of a twist. Instead of trying to provide a circuit for pulsing the CB conversion, the modification is going to be to use computer sound card to key the timing period. By using a sound wave editor it is possible to edit your own timing periods. I have compared the sound card outputs on a scope and the reproductions are wonderful. The circuit to convert a sound wave to key a transistor to turn on is very simple. Amplitude of the sound wave does not matter as long as it is sufficient to turn on a 2n3904 transistor. Which amounts to about 0.8vdc or so as some energy is loss in the resistor. Basically, feed sound channel into a bridge rectifier, positive voltage goes to about a 10 ohm resistor to the base of the 2N3904. The collector of the 2N3904 goes to the white wire that was attached to the microphone switch. The emitter ties to Ground and to the shield on the mic cable. This will only need mono sound capabilities, so if one wants a tone while epilation is taking affect, than the other sound channel will be left available for a speaker.
The program that I have been experiementing with is the FlexiMusic Wave Editor but I am sure there are other porgrams out there that can serve as well. If one selects new waveform, they can choose as fast as one second. They can then expand the time display and make waveform changes to thousandths and possibly ten thousandths of a second. I suggest using the maximum frequency of 20Khz for the frequency for the switching transistor.
In order to use a footswitch however, changes needed to be considered. One can either purchase a USB footswitch, or a thought that I had, is to take a wireless mouse and remove its trackball. Install a jack wired to the left button and then plug a conventional footswitch into the side of the mouse. On the sound program, leave the curser over the run button and then anytime the footswitch is depressed the program should run causing the CB conversion epilator to key for the duration of the sound wave.
I am wondering what others think of this idea?
Well, I could not find an edit key, so I guess I have to post another message. I also just checked out some free software called Audacity. Here is the download URL;
It is from our good linux friends at sourceforge.
On timing, it has options to milliseconds and even can do to samples if someone really wants to get down to timing. I think once I get used to Audacity, I may actually like it better than FlexiMusic. Anyway, for those short of funds. it seems costs are about as follows.
CB Radio about $40
13.8vdcPower Supply $27
Variable power supply kit $13
USB Footswitch $40
Misc parts ie knobs, ind parts etc say $20
Dectro Platinum probe holder $40
Thus the cost for a 27 mhz thermolysis epilator via CB conversion can be had for less than $200.
There are 5 leds on the CB that indicate rf energy levels. These can be used to give a indication of how much p-p energy is being used. Also, contrary to Clareblend epilator, these LED’s do give true indication, if you lose the output transistor, none of the LED’s will light. I would probably suggest some form of volt meter be used with the variable power supply in order to accurately set the RF level. If not using a pot different then supplied, then get a second pot of say 100 ohms or so and put in series so that it can be used to fine tune the voltage. The parts to control the timing from a computer sound card came to about $5 at radio shack. If people want to, we can make up different files for epilation and put them online for people to use. Well, Anyone interested.
I still have not designed a galvanic circuit, but it is easy to incorporate if one wants to use a 10kohm pot from the 13.8vdc supply voltage and use a choke between the pot and the probe connector - namely the UHF output connector on the CB.
Another note: I did some distructive testing with my CB epilator. I wanted to know just how far I could push the final stage. Well, I took the final up to 23vdc and it lasted a little over one minute before giving out. The output level at this point was over 100 vp-p. This was with continuous keying. In epilator mode, the transistor would probably hold up fine as there is so much time inbetween pulses, and at 100vp-p you would want quick pulses. All this with the only modification being rewiring output stage for variable power output. So this output can be pushed even harder then stock, but if doing so repeatedly, then one may want to consider a better heatsink or even cooling for the transistor. It does get hot quickly at these levels. I found replacement transistors on ebay for less than $1 a piece. The stage uses a 2SC2078.
I hope people have gotten books and are learning how to use thermolysis. You are not likely to come across a better deal than this.
It has been a while since I have updated what is going on with this project. I built a adjustable power supply inside the 13.8vdc power supply I purchased using a readily available kit.
I removed a jumper in the CB and instead ran 13.8v out the red microphone wire to power a MIDI Controller purchased from highlyliquid.com also in kit form. However, it is possible to purchase this already made up as well. I purchased an E-mu 1X1 Midi adapter for about $30 as well. I am now able to talk to the controller and check the operation. This unit is certainly capable of microflash. Midi takes about 1 millisec (0.001 sec) to send the 3 bytes each to turn on and off a logic pulse. So in 0.2 seconds it is possible to send 100 pulses each 1ms in length. I verified this with the CB output, that it is indeed switching on an off perfectly.
I am considering, using software that turns a sound card into an scope into the project. This would allow the waveform to actually be displayed on the screen. But that is going to be down the road a bit. The scope will not show every oscillation, but should be able to display on/off pulses as well as levels.
Still working as well on what circuitry I want to use for Galvanic currents. When figured out, that will be incorporated as well. This project is aim’d at being everything for everyone. If Galvanic is wanted, it will do it. If Blend at 27 mhz, then that as well. All modes of Thermoysis imaginable as well.
I would like to know more about what it would take to get approval to market such a device. I know some have said, just type acceptance, but this is a medical device. It just does not seem that somehow the gov’t is not involved.
Since you are not making a “new device” but rather a device to do something already covered, you need only be able to submit proof that yours is not a departure from what already is. This is why the scammers can churn out their crap, because they can say that the innards of their product does basically what the real thing does. They just don’t talk about how they instruct the buyer to use it improperly. They don’t talk about how they use inferior raw materials which break if the product is used for any real amount of time. They don’t talk about how, in some cases, their product is so under powered as to be useless for the actual goal the person is buying and using the product to obtain.
You know Martha, the people I talk to say I’m smart, but you’re a g!$@%#m genius. You’re knowledge of how to put together an effective machine from scratch is way beyond the intellect of this board (although we’re flattered to have you), and probably beyond the range of most of those working at Apilus. I know this because in the brief conversation I had with them regarding the function of the Platinum, they really drew blanks and offered empty answers when asked about the guts of the machine. I seriusly think you should think hard about refining this unit, drawing up plans, patent what you can, and start thinking about asking around for investment capital. If not just as a side project to see where it goes.
Mantaray
Mantaray;
I really doubt the Genius statement. I am just trying to help out others. It really should not take $10K in order to have a decent hair removal instrument. I have not developed any circuitry of my own for this project. I am just taking existing kits and putting them together in a means that will benefit those who cannot afford the expensive costs of current epilators.
I figure everyone on here has access to a computer, so the biggest expense has already been made. Power supply less than $30. Adjustable supply about $20. Midi Adapter $30-40. HighlyLiquid MPA adapter ~$50, $30-40 for a Midland 1001Z CB Radio. Probes, cables, and some form of usb foot switch, and pretty much the hardware is done for the thermolysis portion. It may take a while to get software up and running, but starting to work on that part as well. I really like the idea of having some form of waveform presentation on the screen so looking into a scope function as well. But that is largely software. If anything I expect less than $20 in purchasing a kit to interface between epilator and sound card.
Things are coming together wonderfully for this project. It is also helping me to regain some of my memory.
This is very interesting and i presume the finished product is safe or you wouldn’t be doing this. I would like to learn more about how to do this.
thanks
Jessica
JessicaM;
I do plan on this being as safe as can be. That being said, I am expecting users to invest in learning about thermolysis before using the device. Thermolysis requires more skill on the part of the operator then either Galvanic or Blend. Galvanic is the modality that the super cheap units are providing. Mainly being a 9vdc battery and a 10kohm potentiometer.
I plan at this time to use a dc to dc converter to boost a regulated current of just a couple of volts up to about 24vdc with both positive and negative voltage. I plan to use real current regulators to regulate the current, so that the current remains constant. I still have to work on that circuitry however.
But I do plan on galvanic DC currents being available. Turn the thermolysis power down and use the negative galvanic current and you have Blend Modality. Turn the power up a bit more and you have Thermolysis both slow and fast. This unit is capable of performing MicroFlash as the turn on/off pulses can be as short as 0.001 seconds. Yes, one can have 100 pulses of energy in just 0.2 seconds. In addition to that, it is very possible to have a different energy level on each one of the pulses if so desired. So ramping up and down is also very achievable.
But as I said, I do expect users to spend time learning how to do insertions, and how to measure the proper depth for the respective type/location of hair. I expect, people will start out with performing galvanic, then progress to blend, and then up the thermolysis modality until they are comfortable with using the microflash modality.
Can thermolysis be made entirely safe. NO! If someone is intent on performing Microflash improperly, there are adverse effects, such as I let every client that sees me, know about prior to treating them. The Electrology Research Corporation puts out about 3 pages worth of possible side effects from electrology.
Books have been published on how to properly perform electrolysis, and I expect users to already know how to perform, or to start out with galvanic and proceed from there. But from an electronics standpoint, I plan on this project to be as safe as can be. I am currently testing out the pulse controller that I purchased from highlyliquid. I am very impressed with the testing that I have already done with this unit. I am almost to the point, that I will start testing on myself. Hopefully that will begin within the next couple of weeks. I want logic control of the power level and some better software before beginning those steps, but we are getting there quickly. Another person is helping with software and with tossing ideas back and forth on this project. I may have started the project, but it is not just a one person design. Others helping me with this project are a great help. I would not be this far along with the project without their help.
Just received a copy of “actuelle” magazine from The Dectro Group. You probably recieved the same, Marthajoy, in your AEA “Electrology World”. There is a short article about 27MHz technology, such as used in the Apilus Platinum and Pure. Clement Beaumont, President and CEO of Dectro International clarifies this technology and I personally think this is a good move, since there as been some heated discussions on the AEA forum about 27MHz radio frequency epilators verses 13.56 MHz frequencies.
http://www.dectro.com/medias/actuelle1301-e.pdf
Article starts on page 13.
I wish Dectro had field reps that would travel to or near my city showing me the goods. I hesitate to purchase, not because I’m defensive about what I use, but rather I want to verify the comfort they talk about and actually see and touch the product.
This entire industry has a lack of hands on time with goods for sale. If one doesn’t get to paw the merchandise at a convention, one is just buying on speculation with nothing more than a picture and a description in a magazine (and sometimes you don’t even have the picture).
Dee, and James;
I have enjoyed the Actuelle article, but would still like to know more information about what came out during Dectro’s studies.
I also question something in the article about Dectro being the first to offer multipulse. I can believe that they may have been the first manufacturer to incorporate that modality with a program, but with so many manual machines in the market, I find it difficult to believe that someone was not already pressing multiple times on a foot pedal in order to get multi-pulses. But it could very well be that they were the first to offer it as a programmed modality.
That is their point. With the Dectro machines, one could program a custom treatment with multiple pulses, and let the computer recreate that same treatment exactly 100 times, or 1,000 times and more importantly, come back to the exact same treatment next time you see that client.
In the dark ages of electrolysis, the beginning of the appointment was spent “finding the proper treatment energy” from scratch. This could take 5 minutes off the total treatment time. At least now, one either has the exact treatment energy, as used previously, or one can make minor adjustments due to the changes in hydration, or the fact that one has exhasted all hairs of the thickness treated with that setting, and can now step down to the next level.