Best settings with GentleLase on lighter hair?

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Hello,

Some history, if it’s of interest:
I have been treating my legs and bikini with some different machines for a while now, without satisfying results (maybe because most of my hair is just not dark enough). It does seem like I have had quite a bit of hair reduction though, just not what I expected when I started.
I have had 5 treatments so far, some worse than others, which I think have resulted in more fine, lighter hairs than before.

Recently I decided to give GentleLASE a try, and have had 1 treatment with it so far. Spot size was 18, 20J. I didn’t feel much pain (which bothered me) but the technician didn’t want to use a higher fluence because my skin was slightly red/warm anyway (+ I suspect she didn’t want to because we didn’t have that much time).

I have skin type 1 or 2 - the skin on my legs are very light. About half of my hair now is light brown/dark blonde, the rest is even lighter (though not vellus hair).

Only after my first treatment (which was Elos IPL) did I experience a hair-free period. This didn’t happen after any other treatment, but there must have been some shedding without me really noticing it, since it looks like more hair is gone now.

Now to my initial question… What spot size and fluence is best for me?? 15/30J? Would that make a difference? Or should I try something else?

Any comments?

Thanks,
Karin

#2

Wow, that’s tough. I’ve only personally heard stories of GentleLASE working with dark brown or black hair for the sorts of results you are after. When did you have that GentleLASE treatment? It sounds like you may have reached the limit of what laser can do for you, and you might save more money switching to electrolysis (many people use electrolysis to get whatever the laser didn’t hit after a few treatments, because it’s more economically sound if the hairs have thinned out too much for more laser).

#3

My last treatment, which was with GentleLASE, was about 5 weeks ago. And yes I think there is a difference now from before this treatment. I kind of refuse to think I should start with electrolysis already, because there is still pigment in the hair… But maybe it’s a waste of money and the hair will grow back, who knows.

Since my hair is ligher, I guess it’s very important to get as much energy as possible into the follicles. I’m planning to get text treatment at another clinic, and have talked to them about this… They usually only use up to 20J on legs, and seemed sceptical to use higher fluences. They said they could switch to spot size 15 though, but is 30J too much on legs??

Does anyone have experience of this??

Do you know the difference between spot size 15 with lower fluences, and spot size 18 on 20J? What attacks hair best? Can I go even higher, up to 40?

Any comments?
I have a really hard time making this decision, because the clinic isn’t close to where I live, and I can’t change treatment time when I get there (spot size 15=longer treatment) I have to pay before treatment starts.

Since I don’t really trust a lot of peoiple in this bussiness (I have spoken to soo many people who didn’t know what they were talking about) I think that if I just listen to what they say, it won’t end up any good for me. :frowning:

Help very much appreciated.

#4

I’m sorry, I can’t comment on the 15mm spot sizes, but I get my treatments at 20J with 18mm spot size, and it works fine for the dark hair I have. If your skin can handle it, higher is better, but I’ve never heard of a clinic near me using higher than 22J with an 18mm spot size. Not many places will risk going much higher, for obvious reasons. I have light skin (like you), and had to fight tooth and nail just to get them to go to 20J on me.

Good luck, sorry I can’t be of more help!

#5

18mm, 20J is max on GentleLASE. If you’re not seeing shedding from that and are sure those were the settings used, your hair is probably too light in color for laser to target. Changing settings on this machine won’t make a difference.

#6

LAGirl: May I ask you to confirm that other machines go to higher joules? I know I’ve heard of people getting higher treatments (apparently with other machines if GentleLASE doesn’t go that high). Also, Are the other treatments better? Or are they weaker than 20J on GentleLASE due to other factors? Since my skin is fine at 20J, if I could go higher and have better results on another machine, I would. But it’s my understanding that other machines are still not as desirable as this one. Could you clarify? I’ve read the info you’ve posted before, but still feel confused by that bit.

#7

“Settings” are a combination of THREE factors: joules, pulse width, and spot size. They ALL matter when you say “high” or “low”. GentleLASE at 18mm, 20J, 3ms is the highest setting on an alex because of the combination of these 3 variables. There isn’t an option with higher setting than that on another machine and you don’t need it. If you can handle that max setting on the GentleLASE, you’re good to go.

#8

LAgirl: If what you say is true, then why don’t the people at my clinic tell me the same thing? I mean, they seem to believe 15mm/30J is more powerful. I feel that’s the most logical too. Maybe 15mm/25J is about the same as 18mm/20J, but shouldn’t 30 be higher?? (Since pulse width is always 3ms, or am I wrong?)

#9

30J is max on 15mm. Look up on the forum or Google how laser actually works. It works in a cone-like effect. This means that as you decrease the spot size, you need to raise the joules to compensate. And that larger spot sizes penetrate deeper. So 15mm/30j and 18mm/20j are about equivalent, but 18mm penetrates deeper. Some drop the spot size to 15mm in order to target slightly finer more shallow hairs.

#10

Yes I know what you’re talking about, yes it goes deeper, but:
How do you know at what fluence level (with 15mm spot size) 18mm/20j gives the same effect? (How can you know when they are equivalent?) I.e. how can you be sure that 15mm/30j isn’t higher than 18mm/20j?

#11

Sorry about my english :slight_smile:

#12

Those are both max settings for a reason. The output is similar. Howver, once again, to be able to disable hair with enough hait, it’s not just the output that matters. Depth of penetration and heat at that point matters.

#13

Could you explain that a bit further?

Isn’t there higher joules for a reason also? To be able to target finer hairs only?

#14

Once again, when you decrease the spot size, the overall output of heat (i.e. the impact of the joules) decreases as well. So joules need to be raised if the spot size decreases in order to compensate for this. That’s why the max of joules on a smaller spot size is higher.

Spot size is decreased to target hair that’s more shallow since smaller spot size means more shallow penetration of the laser beam.

Here’s a good thread where SSLHR explains it in more detail to someone else: http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=36&Number=37853&Searchpage=1&Main=7905&Words=sslhr+spot+size&topic=0&Search=true

#15

So the only reason why there are smaller spot sizes (and higher joules) is to be able to treat finer hairs? That seems odd to me. I also had one doctor tell me that. But I still don’t believe so, I think it’s just a simplification, so that it somehow becomes easier for those who work with the lasers to determine what to use…

#16

Thanks for the link.

#17

It’s to be able to target DIFFERENT types of hair, i.e. finer OR more shallow OR both.

#18

Hi again!

After 2 treatments with spot size 15 on my legs (she used between 24-30 joules) I can definitely say that it made a bigger difference than the 18 spot size did. I can only imagine what BIG of a difference it would have made had I not used the larger spot size first, and/or some other less powerful machine! (Because now my hair is finer and lighter, so it will take more treatments to have the same results).

Just wanted to share it with you.

#19

In other words, if you have finer and/or lighter hair, pay some more for the smaller spot size, and have better results!
I haven’t done any research on this, but that’s my experience. And my dad came to the same conclusion (theoretically) using some kind of mathematics.

#20

I would wait at least a few months to judge results. It may seem like it’s being affected, but that type of hair is not likely to be affected permanently no matter what the settings are.

The problem is that that hair is not coarse enough to absorb enough heat to destroy it permanently.