I fully agree with JME1.
“Photodynamic therapy may be a useful approach for hair removal. Because photosensitizers tend to localize in the follicular epithelium, photochemical destruction of all hair follicles, no matter what hair color or growth cycle, could potentially be obtained. Long-term data and large-scale studies are needed to determine the safety and long-term efficacy of this modality.”
Exactly what Quest is working on! Man I hope they make the breakthough. It’s the next best thing to Sirna’s miracle cream.
Yeah I do realize that many people suffer from the problem and that profesionals do see this stuff everyday. However that doesn’t help me in wanting to bear all in front of a stranger for hours on end, for months and years of treatments. It’s a personal thing and is extremely uncomfortable for someone as myself who suffers from general social anxiety (and that’s with my clothes on!) lol.
Also of course I don’t shy away from a doctors physical when needed but this is literally 30 seconds of being uncomfortable once every few years as compared to hours and hours of being poked and prodded every session every few weeks over months or even years (with electolysis)! I am sure you are right that the professionals are great and understanding but personally I just don’t think I could bear it. Some can, some can’t…just like some people have the guts to bungy jump or skinny dip, others wouldn’t dream of it.
There simply has to be a better way, and as this thread shows, new methods could be as little as a year or two away. I am prepared to manage the problem on my own, in private, until a better method is found. Either a one off laser appointment with a photosensitisor (a la Quest), a miracle cream from Sirna, or a effective home use device (Photoderma).
Perhaps if all of these endeavours fail and there is still nothing new available in say 3-5 years I’ll cave in to the old inefficient means of “permanent” hair removal.
Until then I put my faith in science and the overwheming demand for a better solution to this problem.
btw, just to give you some perspective: a laser treament on your back would take under 30-45 mins and you would only need one every 10-16 (3 - 3.5 months) weeks, for about 8 treamtents total, to get a good reduction.
Hi all,
Just thought I would share an email I sent to the leading scientist in this feild (as well as Sirna and Merck), Dr. A Christiano of which she was kind enough to reply to! 
Seems like she is still working hard on the problem:
"Thank you for copying me on your incredibly eloquent email to
Merck/Sirna.
I had no idea people like yourself were following this work so
closely…I’ve read some of the hairtell stories, and I am humbled and deeply moved by them.
Would you mind if I share your email with a few other people?
Thank you again for taking the time to write such an impassioned
letter to Merck. It means the world to me to know that our little bit of research may someday impact people’s lives and well-being for the better.
Please keep in touch,
warmest regards,
angela
> Request to Merck/Dr.Christiano/Sirna
>
> Hello,
>
> I have been watching the developments at Sirna for the past
> year, in particular their “hairless” product, developed in part
> by Dr. Christiano the leading scientist in the field, which I
> believe stands to be one of the biggest breakthroughs in cosmetic
> dermatology in many years. Clinical trials were to start early
> this year but I now understand that since Merck’s acquisition of
> Sirna late last year they will be reviewing Sirna’s product
> pipeline and determining which programs they will continue
> researching and developing. I am hoping that their hairless
> product gets the green light from Merck because I strongly
> believe that it has the potential to help millions of people
> around the globe while also offering large financial returns for
> Merck. I am not naive enough to believe that anything I say here
> will affect the course of a multi-billion dollar corporation but
> if you’ll allow me I’d like to express the reasons why I think
> Merck would be wise to develop this revolutionary
> product and perhaps how they could go about doing so.
>
> While excess hair may seem trivial when compared to some of the
> many diseases and illnesses Merck is currently developing drugs
> to treat, perhaps I can illuminate just how much this problem
> effects the daily lives of its suffers. I am myself a sufferer of
> this problem and along with many other tens of thousands I am a
> member of a web forum called Hairtell.com. I would suggest anyone
> who feels that excess unwanted hair is a trivial problem should
> read the “Share your feelings” thread on that forum. There many
> people tell heartbreaking stories of how their excess hair causes
> them crippling anxiety and depression. How the condition forces
> them to stay indoors, away from beaches and pools, to shun away
> intimate relationships and in some cases even leads to suicide,
> as they can no longer take the feelings of being a social
> outcast.
>
> In a world where people can have any cosmetic “flaw” nipped,
> tucked, and sucked, where is the permanent option for excess hair
> sufferers? Sure you can have areas waxed every month but this is
> painful and in many cases embarrassing. Ask any woman with excess
> hair on her face if they want a permanent solution or a temporary
> one and they will answer permanent 100% of the time. Laser and
> IPL are pathetically inadequate offering questionable results for
> an extremely high price. Electrolysis is also an option but it
> must be carried out hair by hair, takes years to accomplish, and
> is extremely painful. Science simply must come up with a better
> answer to this problem and whoever does stands to make huge
> gains. For example, currently the most popular form of
> “permanent” hair removal is laser and IPL. Persons will pay
> anywhere from $150 - $ 1000 (perhaps more depending on the size
> of the area to be treated) per session, usually having to attend
> 8-12 separate sessions. In total then
> a person could spend anywhere from $1,800 to $12,000 to complete
> the treatment over a span of weeks/years for typically
> unsatisfactory results, some people have actually spent these
> sums and had their condition become worse!
>
> The point is that millions of people around the world want a
> solution to this problem, even those not suffering from an
> “excess” unwanted hair condition. For example, what woman
> wouldn’t want to be free of constantly shaving her legs and
> underarms? Think of the time and money people could save over a
> lifetime of shaving and purchasing shaving creams, moisturizers,
> razors and blades (we all know how overpriced razor blades are
> don’t we?). Merck could be the first to market a truly permanent
> alternative to this, that people may eventually be able to use in
> the comfort and privacy of their own homes. The amount of time
> and money people are spending on laser and IPL clearly shows that
> they are willing to pay BIG for the hope of permanent relief, but
> nobody is providing the safe, simple, solution, that is until I
> stumbled upon Sirna’s product pipeline.
>
> The biggest problem for Merck that I can see is that it never
> seems to be a smart business plan to offer a permanent solution.
> Obviously this is because you won’t be getting repeat customers,
> as they undergo the procedure once and ideally will not have to
> have the treatment carried out again. As a result very few
> companies offer a permanent solution for anything (I have yet to
> see the everlasting lightbulb invented and I doubt we ever will).
> However the example of laser eye surgery then hit me, this is a
> permanent solution to impaired vision and is done so because
> although they do not get repeat customers they do charge a
> significant sum for the initial product/procedure. This can also
> work for Sirna’s hairless product because, as IPL and laser show,
> people are prepared to pay anywhere from $1,800 to $12,000 for a
> permanent solution. I believe the average cost of permanent laser
> eye correction is currently around $5,000 USD, so why can’t Merck
> offer Sirna’s permanent
> hair removal at an appropriate cost effective level as laser eye
> surgeons are now doing? Therefore although you don’t get repeat
> customers, the high revenue from each procedure of applying the
> cream/product will outweigh that business downside. Regardless,
> there will always be rising demand for the product anyway; as new
> adolescencents enter the market everyday, as population
> increases, and prosperity grows in emerging markets, so will
> demand for this product.
>
> If Merck does decide to continue development on the hairless
> product I do hope it is as a permanent solution and not a
> temporary one where people have to have the cream reapplied every
> month or year, as this defeats the purpose of alleviating
> people’s stress and anxiety from their condition, as they will
> still have to “manage” the problem. Also sales of your product
> will not be nearly as dramatic because quite simply there are
> dozens of other methods to manage the unwanted hair problem
> temporarily, this is NOT the permanent solution people are
> screaming for.
>
> I am confident that Merck will have the foresight to realize
> that Sirna’s hairless product is a potential blockbuster drug,
> which could literally be marketed to nearly every adolescent
> female on the planet in addition to many men who also suffer with
> unwanted hair.
> Hoping that your company makes the right decision.
>
> Best regards,"
I sent Dr.Christiano a post from a very depressed poster, “MikeP” entitled “Re: Male with fur” in 2006, but I got no reply. My hope was to keep her interested with her research. Here’s the whole thread: http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=1&Number=35914&Searchpage=1&Main=7599&Words=christiano&topic=0&Search=true#Post35914
I’m glad you received such a warm reply Eddy, because that tells us now that she is aware of real people who come to hairtell with real hair problems. I highlighted a paragraph below in bold print so you can see what I am referring to. There is a profile of Dr. Christiano at the bottom of the post as well for anyone interested in knowing more about her.
Also, I really liked the part of your e-mail about Laser eye surgery. That was a great point to make. I’m really surprised that she actually read a long e-mail such as this, as it is my understanding that many professionals don’t have the time to read long e-mails.I think that shows her dedication to the hairless gene studies. Good job, Eddy. Maybe she will contact you and see if you would like to be involved in clinical trials??
Dee
#35914 - 09/13/06 02:21 PM Re: Male with fur (y)
dfahey
Top Ten Contributor
Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1508
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Electrolysis will work for any kind of hair, but your problem is the amount of hair. Having brown skin does not exclude you from laser therapy, but makes the task a little more difficult. Both modalities used together could be helpful to speed of the process. You should be advised to focus on an area of priority. But, as I thought about your situation, I’m concerned about the amount of hair you describe and it appears that a medical consultation is in order.
Laser and electrolysis can help. There are places here in the US that can work on you very fast to remove the hair and others can point them out to you. James Walker the seventh (certified professional electrologist)here on hairtell is very, very good with the speed factor and in the advice area if you want to fly over!
Also, I’m preoccupied with going another level with this and mentioning that you should immerse yourself in the research that is going on in Europe and the United States and perhaps becoming part of a clinical study. There is one clinical study happening now that I will mention in a minute.
A lot of hair research centers focus on hair loss, but through this research, the mystery to solving hypertrichosis (too much hair) could very well be solved at the cellular level, as well. This is the hope of many. Sirna Dermatology (Boulder,Colorado) is involved with researching and developing a way to to deliver “agents” at the cellular level that interfers with the messenger part of the cell, RNA, that will interfer with hair cells duplicating. Dr. Christiano’s research has been acquired by SiRNA for hopefully applying her work in relation to providing permanent hair removal at the cellular level for people like yourself with copious amounts of hair. She is a board member of Sirna Therapeutics. Her profile is listed below.
I am mentioning another level of involvement, the research side of things, because of the amount of hair you describe. I have not seen any clinical studies that are recruiting patients yet, however, The University of Jena (Germany) will be ready to go for a study they are doing for hypertrichosis using photodynamic therapy, but it is still not open for patient recruitment yet. Maybe you could apply and participate at the appropriate time?
I have sent your post to Dr. Christiano as a gesture to remind her how people with copius amounts of hair suffer in their daily lives and how they would honor her and her work forever if she could find a safe and effective way to rid them of too much hair - safely. You will have to snoop around on your own to involve yourself in what hope awaits you for the future.
http://www.clinicaltrials.gov (U.S.) can be a start.
Dee
Here is a profile of Dr. Angela Christiano, Associate Professor of Dermatology and Gene Development at Columbia University in New York.
Education and Training
Ph.D. 1991 Rutgers University
Postdoctoral Fellow 1991-95 Jefferson Medical College
Affiliations
Department of Dermatology
Department of Genetics & Development
Stem Cell Consortium
Training Activities
Training Program in Genetics & Development
Integrated Program in Cellular, Molecular & Biophysical Studies
MD/PhD Program
Angela M. Christiano, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Molecular
Dermatology and Genetics & Development
Research Summary
Molecular basis of inherited skin and hair disorders in humans and mice.
Christiano Lab
The major focus of our research is the study of inherited skin and hair disorders in humans and mice, through a classical genetic approach including identification and phenotyping of disease families, genetic linkage, gene discovery and mutation analysis, and functional studies relating these findings to basic questions in epidermal biology. Our interests include transcriptional regulation of hair cycling and differentiation, the biology of cadherin-mediated cell adhesion junctions known as desmosomes, and the morphogenesis epidermal appendages such as hair and teeth. A long-range goal of our research is to develop genetic and cell-based therapies for skin and hair diseases through understanding disease pathogenesis. We are using epithelial reprogramming as a therapeutic approach for inherited skin diseases.
In addition to human congenital alopecia, mutations in this gene also underlie the hairless and rhino phenotypes in mice. Hairless appears to have a multitude of functions, and its relationship to thyroid hormone, transcriptional co-repression and apoptosis, among other cellular events, is currently under investigation.
Selected Publications:
-
Ahmad, W., ul Haque, M.F., Brancolini, V., Tsou, H.C., ul Haque, S., Lam, H.M., Aita, V.M., Owen, J., deBlaquiere, M., Frank, J.A., Cserhalmi-Friedman, P.B., Leask, A., McGrath, J., Peacocke, M., Ahmad, M., Ott, J. and Christiano, A.M. (1998) Alopecia Universalis Associated with a Mutation in the Human hairless Gene. Science 279:720-724.
-
Frank, J., Pignata, C., Panteleyev, A.A., Prowse, D.M., Baden, H., Weiner, L., Gaetaniello, L., Ahmad, W., Pozzi, N., Cserhalmi-Friedman, P.B., Aita, V.M., Uyttendaele, H., Gordon, D., Ott, J., Brissette, J.L. and Christiano, A.M. (1999) Exposing the Human Nude Phenotype. Nature 398:473-474.
-
Reynolds, A.J., Lawrence, C., Cserhalmi-Friedman, P.B., Christiano, A.M. and Jahoda, C.A.B. (1999) Trans-gender Induction of Hair Follicles. Nature 402:33-34.
-
Djabali, K., Aita, V,M, and Christiano, A.M. (2001) Hairless is translocated to the nucleus via a novel bipartite nuclear localization signal and is associated with the nuclear matrix. J. Cell Science 114:367-376.
-
Panteleyev, A.A., Jahoda, C.A.B. and Christiano, A.M. (2001) Hair Follicle Predetermination. J. Cell Science 114:3419-3431.
-
Kljuic, A., Bazzi, H., Sundberg, J.P., Martinez-Mir, A., O’Shaughnessy, R., Mahoney, M.G., Levy, M., Montagutelli, X., Ahmad, W., Aita, V.M.,Gordon, D., Uitto, J., Whiting, D., Ott, J., Fischer, S., Gilliam, T.C., Jahoda, C.A.B., Morris, R.J., Panteleyev, A.A., Nguyen, V.T. and Christiano, A.M. (2003) Desmoglein 4 in hair follicle differentiation and epidermal adhesion: Evidence from inherited hypotrichosis and acquired pemphigus vulgaris. Cell 113:249-260.
Current Projects
-
Epithelial Reprogramming
We instead asked whether we could identify an ectopic source of epithelial cells that could be induced into becoming a skin stem cell. Rather than searching for markers of the epidermal stem cell itself, we asked whether we could reprogram other epithelia into skin under the appropriate inductive (dermal) influences.
National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
9/2002-5/2004 -
Functional Analysis of the Hairless Protein
We have combined our preliminary studies with several emerging lines of biological data to formulate a hypothesis which asks three questions. First, is hairless a DNA-binding protein, and if yes, what is its signature sequence? Secondly, is hairless a transcriptional coactivator, and if yes, what are its interaction partners? Finally, what are the downstream targets of hairless gene regulation? We anticipate that this approach will allow us to gain novel insights into the function of the hairless protein for the first time.
National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
9/2001-7/2006 -
Molecular genetics of the keratodermas
The project consists of three integrated and interdependent aims. The first one is to search for mutations in eleven candidate genes in a small number of families with a characterized inherited keratoderma. The second is to identify the mutated genes in large pedigrees with well-characterized, dominant, and fully penetrant keartodermas, one with EB superficialis, the other “Novel Acantholytic Disease.” The third is to isolate and characterize genes that play a role in epidermal differentiation.
National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
7/1998-3/2009 -
Gene therapy model of dystrophic epidermolysis bullosa
National Institute of Arthritis and Musculoskeletal and Skin Diseases
9/1995-6/2006
Honors and Awards
2001 New York City Mayor’s Award for Excellence in Science and
Technology - Young Investigator’s Award
2001 Doctor Harold and Golden Lamport Research Award for “Excellence
In Clinical Sciences”, Columbia University, New York, NY
2003 CERIES Research Award
Committee, Council, Professional Society Memberships
1996-Present Editor, Experimental Dermatology, Munksgaard International Publishers, Inc.
1995-Present Board of Trustees, DEBRA (Dystrophic E.B. Research Association) of America
2000-2005 Member, Society of Investigative Dermatology, Committee on Scientific Programs
2001-Present New York Skin Biology Club
Co-founder and Meeting Co-chairperson
2003-Present Chair, Gordon Conference on Epithelial Differentiation and Keratinization
2003-Present Associate Editor, Journal of Clinical Investigation
American Society for Clinical Investigation
I thought I would jump in here for a few quick comments.
First, there are a lot more companies working on photodynamic therapy (PDT) than the few mentioned in this thread. Everyone realizes what is at stake in a capitalistic market.
Second, PDT has been right around the corner (3 years or so out) for the last 10 years that I have been involved in hair removal. There is a reason why it has taken this long to make no real progress.
Third, PDT exists in several other fields (levulan is a PDT product used for among other things skin resurfacing and with photofacials). No where is it a home run.
Fourth, someone mentioned the computer field and how progress has occurred in that field. The only issues in microcircuitry is really technological systems and the limits of quantum theory. Biological systems are incredibly more complex. We will never see something like Moore’s law in any kind of treatment involving human beings.
The point is that it would be nice if PDT therapy provided the final solution. But I wouldn’t hold my breath. My guess is that it will eventually be an adjunct solution. In other words, it can help with the process but will not in and of itself replace electrolysis or laser therapy. What will probably happen is that the use of PDT will be with laser treatment and it will probably be somewhat controversial as to whether it actually provides a genuine benefit.
HI SSLHR,
I agree with you that PDT won’t be the final solution to hair removal. But of course it has major advantages to lasers used alone. And from the trials that were already run we know that there is a clear benefit from using it additionally (maybe that doesn’t hold for every single person(like it is with every medical treatment)).
And can you give us some names of other companies that are currently working on PDT for hair removal?
First, regarding your comment about trials, there have been no trials to date showing any benefit from using PDT in any way shape or mean involving hair removal. This is the last I heard at the big laser conference (ASLMS) held last month. There have been some Phase I and II clinical trials but one needs to understand that those trials have nothing to do with benefit. All they are is to show that the product is safe or to determine what the safe treatment levels are for the product.
Once a product clears safety trials, then the company is free to conduct Phase III trials which are designed to show effectiveness. My understanding is that since this is really a chemical substance and not a device that it doesn’t fall in the same category as lasers so there is much more scrutiny of clinical trials. Now there are some fast track rules, but I doubt that hair removal will get fast tracked.
Which companies are working on it? All of them. You name the company that is involved in cosmetic laser treatments or that is involved in cosmetic drugs like Dusa (they make levulan) and they are working on PDT for any number of applications. Not all will admit but they are all funding research in one university or another in this field. There is just to much at stake to be left behind nor is it as easy to catch up through the FDA in this area if you do fall behind.
What I forgot to mention is that I am not sure that PDT will be that great a solution. I would like to see it as a possible solution, especially for light colored hair and darker skin types. But the more I watch it and look at the research, the more I doubt that it will be of any significant value.
I could be wrong, this is just my opinion. But I would like to believe that it is based on some knowledge of the industry and the issues. The real issue comes down to two things for hair removal. 1) Getting the chemical to the hair follicle bulb which is deep in the dermis while not allowing it to go anywhere else. 2) Containing the dermal damage that occurs to the follicle and not allowing it to spread through the dermis.
These are technologically significant challenges, that may not be possible to overcome. It is easy to use levulan for skin resurfacing issues because you want the uptake of the product to be superficial and spread out over the epidermis. This is different from wanting a product to only be absorbed by a follicle deep in the dermis. Now one discussed solution is the idea that follicle cells are actively growing and are more likely to absorb a product. But epidermal cells are also actively growing and more exposed to the sun, which complicates targeting the follicle and keeping the light away until there is enough product to have an effect.
Bottom line, I would be happy to see something that actually works. But I am not holding my breath.
sslhr,
Where are you getting your research from? There have been a number of studies done in the past that show this has worked. Quest has already shown their product does reach the follicle. You have looked at their site right?
Hi sslhr,
I think you are right with explaining what clinical trials mean and aim at (I and II is primarly to show safety). And I haven’t heard about clinical trials III either. Hopefully there will be one maybe at the end of this year by Quest.
But JME1 is also right. There are some clinical trials showing that PDT has clearly a benefit and that they overcame some of the problems you mentioned. I think I posted some 2 or 3 links. I also found this book, where one section only deals with PDT and hair removal:
Procedures in Cosmetic Dermatology Series: Photodynamic Therapy
Edited by Mitchel P. Goldman, MD
I also believe that there some comps that fund but don’t admit, but we have to rely on what is being published.
BTW: There are some news on Applisonix
in that
I am not sure what studies you are referring to. Do you have a citation to the study. I saw that Quest states that they have completed a phase I trial that showed that the drug was seen in the hair follicle. But I see no reference to any peer reviewed journal and that actually raises a really big red flag. It is also interesting that they have already formed a partnership to market this product in Asia, before they have even completed any real trials.
Like I said earlier, at the latest ASLMS conference (the largest light based therapy organization in the world) there was yet to be any real evidence that shows it will work. I am not saying that it won’t work but just that it hasn’t been yet shown to work. And given the hype in this field I would be skeptical at present.