Automotive analogy

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Here’s an analogy regarding the follicle and the papilla.

Consider a motor in a car and the gas tank. If you take away the gas tank the motor will stop, but is the motor really dead for all time?

This was the example a hair transplant surgeon used in his explanation of transplant surgery for me. (He also said I’m an IDIOT a few times, so I hope you all know that I have worn the dunce cap MANY times myself!)

The thing is, I ASK questions all the time and bug the hell out of every doctor I’ve ever known. I just want to LEARN! Oh, and they don’t know everything either! So, NO “rock stars” anywhere … as far as I’m concerned.

Using your own understanding of blood and blood vessels, what would you expect to happen if a blood vessel were physically removed from the skin? Wouldn’t the blood quickly coagulate and render the vessel non-viable? (Blood coagulates out of the body in seconds!)

Now consider this. In hair transplant surgery, individual follicles are cut out of the skin. The papilla is probably rendered “kaput.” Amazingly, hair grafts can even be put in a refrigerator (at about 38 Fahrenheit), kept overnight and then implanted in the donor slits, and they survive! (Dr. Kurgis does this with very big cases and when the “team” and patient get tired. Hair transplant surgery is brutal!)

Would you expect that tiny blood vessel “papilla” to survive over night? Probably not. If “something” survives, just what is it that does survive? Actually the STEM CELLS in the follicle survive.

Back to our “car motor” analogy … the follicle is the motor and simply waiting for more gas. Once placed back in a friendly environment … with lots of blood and blood vessels … the follicle (stem cells) springs back to life.

Again, it’s the motor in the car that’s the real “brain” not the “gas tank.” “Dr. K” believes the follicle simply “grabs another papilla” and starts all over again. This is very understandable because the “papilla” is NOT a unique structure associated only with a follicle. Indeed the entire underside of the epidermis has countless (millions and millions of) papillae that “feed” the skin. That’s why the upper dermis is called the “papillary layer.” Papillae are “all over the place.” Billions?

Furthermore, hair graft surgeons are able to split the hair graft in two parts (upper and lower) and there are enough viable stem cells in the follicle so that, in most cases, BOTH halves will grow a new hair. Without doubt, that “upper follicle” has no papilla.

The idea that a papilla GROWS a hair ALONE is nonsense. That is like saying that a GAS TANK can grow a car’s motor. The genius of the hair are the stem cells. We have much to learn about this.

#2

As for technique, I believe we must coagulate the entire follicle, i.e., get evey possibility, including those cells we have yet to identify.

For this reason, I don’t use insulted needles. With big body hairs I WANT to zap the whole follicle, and the insulated needle might not allow me to do this. And, when I see “the right sized” scab, I know I have achieved my goal.

(Still, lots of you ARE able to do this with insulated probes … but, well, there it is.)

#3

So are insulated probes effective at all ?

#4

On, yes, insulated probes are effective indeed.

For instance, Laurier IBP probes come in different sizes regarding the exposure of the bare metal at the tip of the probe, a work of engineering art and skill unsurpassed by none in the industry, in my opinion. I get fantastic results, meaning, hair follicles are “one and done” when I “cook” them. For those big body hairs or big facial hairs, I can choose to use a thermolysis modality (Synchro is the cutesy term for this) that fires out 80 - 100 picopulses in less than a half a second as I move the probe slightly in the follicle. That’s what I call the nuclear option for very coarse hairs and I never hesitate to use that strategy. It is devastating for those mighty hairs as one moves along with a tick tock speed.

Insulated probes require a strategy that gives one the best treatment and the above strategy that I described is one strategy that works in harmony with an insulated probe.

#5

The consumer is always trying to find the “right” answer.

Yes, you want to find the best electrologist so you take statements and comments and hope these are “absolutes,” such as the insulated needle WORKS, or it does NOT work. Folks it’s just NOT like that.

Let’s see, what would guarantee the best results? The person has a CPE? They went to “the best” school? They are in business 30 years? They use the Apilus, Instantron, Hinkel … machine? They do the “Syncro,” Blendo, whatever technique?

See, you are looking for the ONE answer to your question. But you are not asking the right question! Let me give you an analogy (since I do seem to like these).

Let’s say that you are planning to have your wedding catered, and you want the best food possible. What would you do? Would you read the many menus of the various providers? Would you look at how beautiful their website is? Would you be concerned about the BRAND of stove they were using? Would you “go” with the person who seemed the nicest or had a degree from a cooking school? If you did all that, you could still get horrible food.

If you were really smart, you would sample the food they make … put the food in your mouth and TASTE IT! Food is food; it’s NOT a menu! It’s not a special stove or a recipe or a “nice personality.” It’s FOOD!

Stop trying to find “the answer” in any written words. When you start your QUEST to have your hair removed, you are going to have to learn how to “sample the food.”

The question you should be asking is this: how do I sample electrolysis treatments and make a judgment based on a REAL sample treatment?

#6

Aahh… I wish electrologists were as plentiful as caterer’s with good food.

Michael is telling you true - get as many consults as you possibly can. In some geographical areas there are not very many electrologists or there may be none! You may have to travel. Hopefully, you will not have to travel far in your quest.

Do not be afraid to see what individual electrologists offer. We are all different in our approach and set up. No one considers them self a hot shot rock star (humility is a good thing because we all have a lot to be humble about, so our mother’s tell us) :wink:

#7

I neglected to say that Dee is right too (my opinion). The insulated needle is a super tool and I always “talk it up.” A lot of time and effort (decades) was spent getting this little “puppy” right. I don’t use it because my strategy for fat body hairs is different (blend and tapered). However, with the advanced Dectro units the Laurier is a perfect match and, following a different strategy, dispatches fat nasty body hairs too! It’s all good!

The prospective client is always grappling for just the right word or the right “statement” so they know (think) they will get the results they want. All of you “guys and gals” must seriously “do your homework” because these days there are too many different possibilities (and LOTS of scams) for any of us on this website to make definitive decisions for you. (Some of these scams are even advertised right here on this website! Madonna Mia! It’s-ah no use-ah!)

Today, finding your “wizard?” … well, the onus is on YOU the consumer. Get yourself EMPOWERED, believe nobody. Discover in physical actuality “what works” for you. It’s not as easy as it was, say, 20 years ago!

This is the “Golden Age of Hair-Scams!” And, I can’t fight the bastards any more … YOU have to find out yourself. Nowadays, I sit quietly and “zap and zap and zap.” (And do dishes and laundry.) That’s it!

I do love my clients, however. I really do.

#8

HairTell has had an influence on what many seeking hair removal are thinking.

I know about that influence because many of my clients tend to do research for a long time before they get to me and many have found their way to HairTell.

They give me instructions and often quote the “rock stars” that post so often it makes us wonder how much they are actually working.

Its annoying. Its annoying because some professionals here have a narrower perspective than others. Hello out there - there are many roads to the same destination and if you have your road set and navigate that one well, very nice for you.

If I have that one client out of hundreds who would do best with MPG - that is the road I will take. If I have that client who would do best with a Ballet Gold, that is what I will use. In my judgement, for most of my cases, the Laurier IBP is most suitable and that is what I will use. Yes, it requires that I move the probe throughout the follicle but so what.

I remember, pre Michael Bono HairTell days, that one disturbed poster was obsessing over a post electrolysis mark on his eyelid. Thousands of insertions were done but one insertion left a mark. So, this kid decided to focus on the one spot. So the kid posts. He gets a response from a couple of the rock star electrologists who tell him that the area was overtreated. So, the client continues to obsess and seems to go into a state of depression, anxiety, and went from one professional to another to resolve the problem of the SPOT. Too bad Michael was not here to say, “Hey, it will heal, give it time.” It eventually healed.

I have asked many electrologists why they do not come to HairTell and post. And of those few who do post, very few use their real names. I am told by my colleagues who do not post here, “I do not want to get into a battle over technique - prefer to discuss in a professional only environment”.

#9

The above post illustrates why I love animals more than I love people. Even dogs and cats, sharks and dolphins treat each other better than people treat people.

The electrologists that post here on a weekly basis, do not offer disrespect to colleagues, well maybe they do occasionally if the manner of approach of a colleague is rude or vicious . After reading the above posters comments, I don’t feel very respectful, but I will stay polite. The politeness I am maintaining, at the present time, is due to Michael Bono’s lovely post above, which is a great example of refinement that expresses what 99.9% of electrologists understand about each of their colleagues talents and strategies for performing electrolysis. I couldn’t agree more with you, Michael.

For me, after over 8,000 posts, since 2003, I’m sure the electrologist who commented above with such bluntness, was directing her comments at me, well maybe you as well Josefa? I guess a fairly respectful response would be to say that I only hope that for all my time and effort, I have helped at least some very depressed hair consumers who were seeking advice and support here on Hairtell. My unpaid personal mission here has always been to help the hairy by communicating as best I can about what good electrolysis care can do for them if they are educated and very patient. That means telling the truth always. I do not run with the pack in order to protect the pack. If something doesn’t look right (and I am not talking about one little red dot on an eyebrow), I will be always be honest. I usually say, that looks a little rough, talk to your electrologist about making some adjustments.

The Internet is a big problem for some electrologists because consumers can ask questions and post pictures. Consumers can complain about how an electrologist treated them, as they lay captive on the table, with a probe going in and out of their skin. Now that’s a nightmare! Some electrologists post videos on YouTube to show what they can do (thanks Josefa for all your videos - you are my rock star). Some post before and after pictures (thanks again Josefa!!). My clients have said that Josefa’s video’s and before and after pictures is what led them to choose electrolysis. It’s a different world indeed. Too bad for some, that the power of the Internet (Hairtell) has enlightened the hair consumers out there. Darn!

This is probably a good time and circumstance to express my love and admiration to all my electrologist colleagues. We all work very hard and there is never enough hours in the day to accommodate the consumers that need appointments. Oh, and then there are the emails to answer and then next thing you know, it’s almost midnight and then we are answering posts and private messages on Hairtell or offering information on AEA Facebook, but some think we can’t be very busy doing electrolysis if we are typing away on Hairtell and the AEA page. Oh, well, what can you do about negativity? Some people always see the glass as half empty and they will never be satisfied or truly happy.

May I emphasize again that I love the trustworthiness of animals? They never bitch, moan or complain…aahh … Life is a sea of misery, with little islands of ecstasy - surrounded by SHARKS!

#10

No wonder it is hard to get professionals to stay here. The ego is really too much. It has led to diversion, deflecting and manipulation. Wow. Bully.

#11

That is true. However, I want to add that if I recall correctly, Bono had clients coming to him demanding they use a specific type of probe because of what they read on here and saw another electrologist get results with that. If I bugged my electrologist to use a certain probe, I guarantee you I’d get my ass kicked. It isn’t right that someone who trained for a long time and has been working for years would have to deal with someone coming to them demanding for certain things because they read it online.

One thing I will say, and this is something I believe Arlene is arguing which I agree with, is that often times we don’t point out that there are multiple ways to achieve the same results. The strategy my electrologist uses I’ve never seen anyone discuss on here, and that’s fine. It’s her strategy, it’s worked for her (and for me), and she’s sticking to it. Do I wish more electrologists could guarantee I’d need 3 treatments total and I’d be 99% done? Sure, but I’ve learned that it’s rare to find an electrologist who will guarantee that, and in the end, it really doesn’t matter as long as we finish.

Lastly, I’ve asked my electrologist about posting on hairtell awhile ago since she knows the forum. She said she wouldn’t bother reading it (I forget the exact reason for why), but she also said she wouldn’t read yelp reviews for her – she’s booked all the time, and she knows she gets results by the hundreds/thousands of people she’s treated over 20 years.

My electrologist knows pretty much all the ones that post on this forum, but she’s much happier in the quiet.

#12

Brenton, could you please describe the strategy your electrologist uses. It would be very interesting to her a new strategy!

#13

Well, Arlene, something inside me told me I was the target of a new attack here. And if it were not coming from you, I could have sworn that it was, but I thought “No Pepa ( my friends call me like this), you’re seeing conspiracies everywhere. It can not come from Arlene”.

You confuse “manipulation” with “empathy”. Hairtell is valid for people, who need a electrologist find you, but this does not apply to information about how to get the most benefits from their trips if they travel from far away?. I honestly do not understand it.

#14

This is too rich. Arlene, to be totally direct, you really expected no response when you appear out of nowhere using bullying words such as annoying, narrow perspective, rock stars that post so often it makes us wonder if they are actually working and then YOU ARE INDIGNANT because of the pushback or what I interpreted as your bullying behavior? Is it inaccurate of me to say that you started this and for why?

You actually gave me a great idea that I should have acted on a long tome ago. I cannot possibly go back through 8,000 posts and quote what I repeat over and over to hair consumers here regarding the electrolysis process without becoming cyanotic and apoplectic or to defend myself from made up half truths, so me thinks I must get more creative. I have some ideas brewing.

#15

Shaking my head…

Perspective, people. Please do know that the tone you read into the written words here may not even be the intention of the writer…of course when you then feel attacked…well, sigh…things can get out of hand.

Obviously, “I” am not reading anything into Arlene’s post in the same manner as others.

#16

There’s the ticket.
My comment is a response to the above post. That post is in this thread.
Why are you ladies over-reacting?

Furthermore, why would you, Dee, cut and paste my comments?

#17

One thing I will say, and this is something I believe Arlene is arguing which I agree with, is that often times we don’t point out that there are multiple ways to achieve the same results. [/quote]

Not that I expect you to memorize every word I have said, Brenton, but I have actually made this same point many times ad nauseum. It is not a newly discovered idea. So, Arlene agrees with me and you agree with us.

And I am happy for her! She sounds wonderful. Besides promoting the good news about electrolysis care, I enjoy studying what the hair consumers have to say about their experiences with hair removal. It is a learning experience that keeps us in touch with the concerns, heartaches and headaches of what people need in terms of support and advice. We are all busy and have great passion for our work and for our clients. Some go beyond their success as electrologists and peek into Hairtell for the advantage of connecting with a broader base of people so they can continue to learn, grow and share.

#18

Please expand on what you mean?

#19

Well ladies, I think it’s time to apologize. I hope you will forgive, and understand that these past few days have been a little difficult for me.

#20

I’m shaking my head. What do you mean by the same manner as others? I quoted specific parts. How specific do want?