"and the beat goes on"

A week or so ago, somebody posted some nonsense they had read on the internet about “anagen only” … you know the drill. I wrote to the beauty specialist who posted the misinformation and the following is her reply … and my answer to her.

"Hi Mike
I’m sorry, but I have spoken to several examiners who have confirmed that the hair does have to be in the anogen [sic] stage but I am happy to post a note on the article with your comments as I believe there are often conflicting thoughts on such processes.

Kind regards
Kathryn Danzey"

Dear Kathryn,

Thanks for your reply. I do appreciate it.

The matter of “anagen only can be removed, and hairs cannot be removed in telogen” is not a matter of opinion. It’s a matter of misinformation. Those espousing this supposition fall into two categories: 1) Those parroting what they have been taught, and 2) Those that don’t know how to remove hairs in telogen stage.

Because someone doesn’t know how to do something, does not therefore make the task impossible. People said it was not possible to go faster than the sound barrier. People said, “it’s not possible for humans to survive in space.” Well, you get the idea.

My entire 40-year career has been BASED on destroying hairs primarily in telogen stage. Naturally, when someone says this is “not possible” I react and seriously think they are ignorant of either the facts or they are very bad technicians.

Again, thanks for letting me “sound off” … but I have been discussing this “difference of opinion” for the last 40 years! I suppose I’m starting to get a bit fed up with this silliness. And, of course, I hate seeing these false notions printed as FACT.

Well put.

I would be asking for direct examiners names and contact information if this is the case. If the people who are supposed to be teaching ( and testing for ) this information clearly have it wrong, then it’s vitally important that this be immediately and forwith corrected,or this misinformation will continue to spread .

After all, clearly apples dont fall out of the tree due to gravity, and the world is obviously and undeniably flat and if we go too far we are going to fall off the edge.To suggest otherwise is treason and heresay!

Seana

I have told this story before, but it is relevant here.

I was at a gathering of electrolysis professionals with one of my apprentices. She wanted to try out all the machines she could, and that made her one of the few people doing work in public, and on a man, no less.

Some students gathered around to see this student of that loudmouth King James do some actual work, and gasped that she was not inserting at 90 degrees. Their teacher scoffed that everyone knew that insertions had to be made at 90 degrees to be correct. From the table, I said, she is doing the correct insertion for the hair she is treating. This only got the pedagogue to dig pronounce that I must have failed as a teacher and maybe I had little value as someone to teach. I then offered that perhaps she, the pedagogue, should take my student’s place, and show her how to do it correctly.

Wonder of wonders, she backed off. While her students begged her to show everyone her mastery, she walked away rather than show everyone an allegedly proper insertion of 90 degrees on my face. Good thing too, as that would have caused a fountain of blood to flow from my face at that time and caused a really bad wound that I would have been sporting for a good week and pigmentation that would have lasted months. My beard hairs were as thick as nails and coiled like a pigs tail all those years ago.

Much of what is canonized in our electrolysis programs is just repeating what someone said that someone else said, that was from a paper written in 1860, or 1920, 1968 or whenever.

There are few people able to tell great truths with that cheeky charm, and that the opponent feel flattered.

Oscar Wilde was one of them, our Michael is another…

I’m constantly disenchanted with the quality of information provided by schools providing electrolysis training. I’ve got a couple of really good examples of that I’d like to share, I’'ve told parts of these stories before but by no means all of them.

Some time ago I went to a school for laser, and later, electrolysis. I wont say the name here, I guess not to embarrass the guilty. I had had only limited success with laser, and my chin which caused me serious dysphoria contained a large percentge of grey hairs, and those were never going to be treated susccessfully. So I made an appointment for the next month to begin electrolysis.
I happened to have a little extra cash t the time, Some of the government child subsidies I had been missing in my budget for several months has come , all at once as a lump sum.So I went frequently. About 12 times over two months, so more than once a week. Right about the time I switched the head esthician at the school had left ( Miss Nancy) and been replaced by a lady named Lucita.
Now, to say Lucita lacked some social skills would be an understatement. I quickly became uncomfortable with her attitudes, and with some of the questions she had about my transgender status. Believe it or not at one point she asked if “those were real breasts” in my shirt and even asked if she could see! But I also noticed, that the number of students treating with electrolysis, was diminishing! From around 10, to eventually just 1 in a two month period.
Now I have to say, this was a couple months before they were due to graduate their year long program, a program each had paid $8500 to attend. I know this, because I asked. So it seemed very odd that all the students seemed to be leaving program so near to completion.
I also seemed to be having immense difficulty scheduling appointments. At one point I showed up for an hour long appointment I had booked a week in advance. As always I paid for my services in advance. I got in and Lucita announced she had overbooked and could only give me 1/2 hour. Then fifteen minutes into the session began pestering the student to “finish up” . I think all told I recieved about 25 minutes for the hour I had paid for.
Now all of these students were slow.The fastest amoung them was averaging 120 hairs in an hour. I actually liked her, she was one of the longer lasting of the 10 or so, and used to zap 4-5 hairs then tweeze them all at once to avoid having to switch implements every hair. I actually forget her name so I’ll call her “Blondie” and I’ll get back to her in a few minutes.
Remember my scheduling difficulties? It was almost two months before I could stand the hair on my face no longer and made yet nother appointment. Or tried to. It seemed my business was no longer important to them.I tried several more times and each time they would have to reshedule for one reason or another. By this time I was already practising DIY and an avid reader here, slurping as much information as I could over several months. Finally I made one last ditch attempt to make another rescheduled appointment on a saturday late in august ( and a day before their “class” was due to grduate, and a new one start in september.
As it turned out, the student didnt show up! I was extremely unhappy, but after several running back and forth by the clerk and about a 30 minute wait it was decided that the instructor for electrolysis, who DID happen to be present, would take me instead. Her name was Louise.
Now Louise had an early starter for the September courses with her. As she prepped the area, the student was asking questions. I let her know I was familiar with this establishment and with the process of electrolysis, from both sides of the needle. While louise cleared a dozen or so empty cups from the area so I could sit down, and fetched windex and paper towel to clean the lipstick that had somehow found its way onto the optical loop lamp, the student started looking and asking questions. She looked at my upper lip ( the area I was being worked on that day) and began to remark “Those all look like Catogen Hairs” to which Louise never looked up from her loop cleaning said “yes, maybe they were affected by laser”

Ok so I have to say something here. I advised the student that was extremely unlikely, as I had shaved 4-5 days prior, and unless every single hair on my upper lip decided to move into Catogen phase simultaniously within those 4-5 days they were all anogen, that her supposition was extremely unlikely About this Time Louise started loading the probe, and the student asked the size. She was told it was an F3. The next question was " How do you know to use that size"
It took louise several moments to load the probe haviing suddenly discovered she was sans tweezers, and so I answered for her “Ideally the idea is too match the size of the hair or just slightly larger”
Louise was taken aback by this and there were follow up questions as to how I knew this, and it was at this time I admitted that I was learning some things of electrolysis myself.It was a topic of conversation for the next hour or so while Louise worked. Now what Louise lacked in social skills( it’s hard to chitchat with a probe in your lip and isnt recommended) , she made up for in electrolysis skills. She was very good. That’s because she was the head of electrolysis and had been teaching at the school for over 10 years.However the student did not benefit from her skill. Shortly after she began the student was shooed off to “Go read on the computer” There was zero discussion of matching the direction of hair growth for an insertion. Nor on establishing the depth of the insertion by epliating a hair and matching it to your probe depth. My last comment to the student as she waddled away with a sullen look on her face was “You might want to check out bonoelectrolysis.com.There’s a pdf there on the blend method you might find interesting”
I had to giggle, because Louise soon discovered the same thing, through the same 5 minute process, that every student before her had learned, that the automatic feature on the VMC machine she was using didnt work, and had to resort to the use of pedal. I wonder how many times over 3 months that same scenario of try and try again had repeated with every electrolysis client the school had. In 3 months the school still didnt know that their ONLY machine had a issue with it. But I did.
A few weeks later I ran into “BLondie” in the mall and we struck up a conversation. It turns out she was offered an apprenticeship because she had her electrolysis certificate already, from the prior head electrolysist who had left and been replaced by Lucita. She quietly told me that Louise was in fact the schools only remaining certified electrolgist, and if she wasnt there they werent legally able to have the students work on me. She had left because she admitted the school was not teaching her what she needed to know, but the apprentiseship was, and she already had a certificate and didnt need it.This explains my prior scheduling difficulties, since louise only worked 2 days a week . Not that it would have mattered, over a dozen hours of electrolysis not once did the supervising staff ever give a single piece of advice, instruct on a single inserton or help a student in any way that I took note of.

Ok so middle of September-ish I became very frustrated and disenfranchised with the folks here at hairtell. Mostly because I didnt see where I was learning anything further and was reading the same responses tot he same questions day after day, and that there seemed to be a concerted effort to “shut up” and not share anything meaningful. It wasnt true, it was me being paranoid and depressed and unhappy with my lack of resources and about that time there was a action by the AEA to exclude non-member electrologists from their facebook page. To which many started their own page, and in turn excluded non-professional electrologists ( IE DIY’ers) from this as well. I was pissed to put it mildly, but I got it in my head if I actually sought out certification no -one could tell me I could not take part, ask questions, and learn from the experience. So I started checking out other schools. One in my Area, I’ll call “Junes” school of esthetics. The price for this course was $3100 of which $200 was for a “supply kit” . I asked what was in the supply kit, and was it necessary . “Oh yes, it includes things like probes,antiseptic and a Probe holder” Skeptical because I already owned many of these items I asked if it would be possible to see the school and evaluate what I would learn there. I was told the instructors were only there on mondays but if I came late in the day on monday I could meet them and see their facilities.
Their site describes them as a leading edge school using the most modern equippment available.Ok…
So I arrive at the designated time on monday and what first hits me is how dirty this place is. I wouldnt use the bathroom there nevermind have electrolysis performed on me. The front desk clerk takes me back to the classroom where a dozen or so students had just evacuated. The Instructor was still there. I took a good look at some of the most ancient equipment for electrolysis known to mankind. The next thing that hits me, is that NONE of it was the same, so if I had a school supplied “Probe holder” it would only have fit maybe one of the machines in there. Undaunted I introduced myself to the instructor. I asked questions. Like what would I learn at “junes” if I became a student. Michael you are gong to giggle over this.
“Oh e teach how to insert the probes, phsiology of hair, and what hair can be removed and what cant”
“Oh, what hair cant be removed”
“Well it’s very complicated, there are different growth phases”
“Pretend for a moment I’m not a complete idiot and have actually been studying electrolysis. What kind of hair cant be removed”
“Well one of the phases, called Telogen Cant be”
“Thank you very much, that’s all the information on your school I need” whereupon I left the bleached blond instructor behind never to return.
A month or so later, I started a conversation here with a certified electrologist who is local to me. She has been most helpful waves Stars and as it turns out , she is a graduate of “Junes” . She admitted to me that while they did provide the bare basics of knowledge to perform electrolysis, had she not been taken in hand by some relatives and allowed to work on clients with the very best of equippment, she would not know what she does. She recently ventured out on her own and opened a new clinic a little out of town a few days a week.

So these are the ONLY two electrology schools in my area that I am aware of. Neither seems particularly first rate in terms of knowledge communicated to their students. And blog after blog of other electrologists I keep hearing very similar tales, that none of these places really seem to be doing a whole lot to educate their students, who seem to learn more by practising on each other than they do from the schools or instructors. I keep waiting to hear of a “Really top Notch” electrolysis school in Ontario to recieve certification at, but honestly, they dont seem to exist.So for now, the cheapest place that will offer a valid certificate ( and currently that’s 3 day course in Markham for $900) is more likely to get my dollars should I ever feel the need to certify. In the meantime, there’s myself and growing list of transgirls wanting cheap work done (and a lot of it) and I dont think I will worry about schools, until I really need to.

Seana

Oh James, I can really “top” that story!

Years ago, I was visiting Art Hinkel and he said, “Bono, I have one hell of a story for you, but you can’t tell anyone?”

Okay … so, now I’m telling (everybody’s dead in the story).

Our very respected California State Examiner (actually a bit of a snob) took her Kree machine to Hinkel because the output light was not working. Hinkel put in a new light, but he also noticed that the HF power line had broken off from the face panel of the unit. (So, there was no HF at all to the probe.) So, he simply soldered it back on.

After a few days, our State Examiner called Hinkel and was extremely upset. She said, “Arthur, what have you done to my machine? That was my special machine that I use on patients with a low pain threshold!”

Hinkel never said what actually had happened; how could he tell her she was using a machine with no power? The next day, she brought the machine back in and Hinkel CUT THE WIRE! She was totally happy to get her “special unit” back.

Let’s “hear it” for a painless treatments! Yeah, MADONNA MIA! The woman was in business for 35 years … treating patients with, well, nothing!

As James knows all too well, it’s the people DOING electrolysis that know what’s happening. Written theory can only get you so far. It’s us soldiers in the trenches that understand the “war against hair.”

1 Like

A week or so ago, somebody posted some nonsense

That someone was me and it was an honest question. You realize I am currently seeking an electrologist and have had a consultation?

It’s not as if I’m anti-electrolysis or something.

LDLD you’ve taken this statement out of context. He wasnt saying anything bad about you, he was saying it was inappropriate for this assertion to have been MADE to you in the first place because it wasnt true. And he’s right.
By supposed “professionals” making assertions via web page or consultation to you that presents information to you that is clearly false and misleading, they are providing you with a dis-service.
The fact that this information is wrong, and is getting repeated by people who are educating those seeking meaningful effective hair removal, means it’s vitally important the professinals at hairtell do everything possible to stomp out such misconceptions, because it means you dont receive the right treatment, or information. And you need to.

Please dont take Michaels statements the wrong way, because they do not, and are in no way intended, to make you feel badly. Quite the opposite, he cares enough to ensure that you and others get the RIGHT and true information.

Seana

My ACTUAL quote was:

“A week or so ago, somebody posted some nonsense THEY HAD READ ON THE INTERNET … “

Taking offense at this statement was correctly dealt with by SeanaTG — THANKS! Where or where does this statement say anything about LDLD?

Now I know how politicians feel when their statements are “edited” to produce a totally different meaning.

Selectively omitting the part that says, “ … they had read on the internet” changes the entire statement, and seems deliberate.

GOSH, so many of us get offended so easily … over nothing!