Advice please - desperate

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
1

I have been a sporadic reader of this board for years now. The time has come that I have a serious dilemma and could certainly use some of the wonderful advice from the members here.
I apologize in advance for the length of this, but I just don’t know what else to do, or who to turn to.

I’m a female, age 27. I have been going for electrolysis for my face (chin and upper lip… a very noticeable problem, lots of hair, not just a stray here and there) for FIVE years. I have been going diligently at least once a week (started twice a week, 1 hour at a time, but have been going once a week for 30-45 mins for about the last 2 years or so)

I don’t know if I didn’t realize how long it has been that I was going, or what. But I realize that the amount of hair on my face is still unmanageable and unbearable. After 5 years of dedicated weekly electrolysis, should I still have enough hair to feel like I have a problem?

About 6 months ago, my skin began to break out severely, something that I hadn’t experienced before. About 2 months ago my doctor advised me to stop electrolysis and everything else for a little while until my skin cleared up. I have since been to several skin clinics and a dermatologist, all who have commented on the scarring on my chin from the electrolysis! In addition, they have all recommended that I go for laser. I am scared to go for laser on my face because of some of the things I have read.

to be concise here are my main questions:

  1. after 5 years of weekly electrolysis treatments, should I still have enough hair on my face to be considered an issue?

  2. is it possible that this acne outbreak (dealing with it for 6 months now) could have been caused by the electrolysis or something that the electrolygist did?

  3. Is scarring inevitable when dealing with dense (imo) hair on the chin?

Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated. I have to re-evaluate my entire routine, and it is very scary for me.

thank you in advance

2

Hi
You say that you are scared to go for laser but you have been having electrolysis for 5 years and have had to put up with

  • scarring
  • possible acne outbreak
  • still lots of hair left

Why should you be scared of laser? Can it make the situation worse? I doubt it very much.

Have some consultations and test done with a few laser clinics.You have nothing to lose.

Go for a gentlelase and ask them the questions suggested on here.

One thing that isn’t mentioned much on here is that if a clinic has a Gentlelase, you can be sure that they are serious about their business and giving their clients the best that is availabe. The Gentlelase is one of the more expensive machines, and only a serious clinic would invest in one. And the training is good - Candela want to keep their good reputation.

Also, if you haven’t been screened for PCOS, you need to.

Good luck and I am sure that it will work out for you

3

Electrolysis can’t cause Acne. One is more likely to get acne from hormonal imbalance, gastric/intestinal problems (blocking the bioavailability of everything from B vitamins to minerals) depleted stores of vitamin A, Vitamin E, or zinc.

As a longtime reader of the forum, I would have thought that you would have put your location in your profile. Someone might know of another practitioner for you to get a second opinion from.

I don’t want to knock your Doc, but the people who know the LEAST about electrolysis (or hair removal in general) are the doctors. In fact the state of the industry today comes out of the fact that the procedure was discovered by a doctor, but after the collective yawn from his collegues, it was the secretaries who picked up the ball and ran with it. We owe it to the women who left their jobs working for doctors for the fact that this information has been passed down from the 1800’s to today.

4

I am sorry to hear about your horrible experience with both skin damage and poor results. In skilled hands you would have been finnished years ago. You are now doing the right thing i.e. becoming well informed. Now, before you make any decision look up laser induced growth,especially re facial hair. Next, have several other opinions and test patch treatments. Sadly, most people only do research once they have already had a nasty experience. As James advised, post your location tp get advice from forum partipants.

5

By skin damage,I meant scarring. Acne is not caused by electrolysis.

6

Most doctors are ignorant when it comes to what a good electrolysis care can bring to a woman with severe facial hair.

Poor electrolysis care does not mean electrolysis doesn’t work, just like writing with a pencil does not cause you to misspell words.

You should have been finished or well-controlled way before five years, even if you have a medical condition that is stimulating too much hair to grow.

Why the acne? Maybe your hormonal environment has changed significantly and it has very little to do with the electrolysis side of things? I could ask several questions about the hygiene practices of your practitioner, but I’ll narrow this a bit. If she inserts into a pus filled area and then continues her insertions all over your face, this could spread infection. What is the general hygiene environment in her office?

I am NOT a fan of laser for a woman’s face. Good electrolysis care with a MODERN epilator that allows the electrologist to remove hair PERMANENTLY at a fast pace, with tlerable sensation and skin reaction is heavenly. You clearly did not experience what is highly possible if all is done correctly, especially since you say you have been as consistent as you have been over FIVE years. There is something majorly wrong here and it is not the process of electrolysis most likely, but rather lies with the human being calling herself an electrologist or with a non-complient client, which you say you are not.

Can you tell us what epilator she is using? Probe size? Modality used? How big an area was cleared each time? Did you ever get a first, full clearance of all noticeable hairs? Did she wear gloves after she washed her hands? Did you feel the sensation of tweezing? Did she show you examples of full bulb hairs she treated? Did she wipe down the objects she touches in front of you before your treatment? These are SOME of the questions we focus on to try and get a better understanding of why you aren’t succeeding. Once the problem(s) are pinpointed and thus corrected, there is no way that you will have hair that is big and bothersome growing on your face.

Doctors and such have no idea what a skilled, professional elctrologist does. We never get credit when we give people the gift of permanent hair removal. People! for those of you that have had great success, please tell your doctors! They just don’t know. Tell them who you went to so they can refer the unhappy hairy to the great electrologists in your area. Also, if any of you are still fighting hair in an area that has been treated for more than 24 months, please correct the situation before you get to the five year mark!

Can you submit a picture?

Dee

A word about virilization that I forgot to address:

Virilization, usually in women, can result in the adrenal glands overproducing androgens (testosterone and similar hormones).
Too much hormone brings on certain symptoms that distress women. Symptoms include excess facial and body hair, baldness, acne, deepening of the voice, increased muscularity, an increased sex drive, the uterus shrinks, the clitoris enlarges, the breasts become smaller, and normal menstruation stops. DO you have nay symptoms beyond the hair and acne?

A test can determine the level of androgens in the blood. A computed tomography (CT) or magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scan can be ordered to obtain a view of the adrenal glands. It’s all up to your physician.

Treatment can range from surgery to no treatment at all, to drugs that lower the free testosterone levels, such as oral contraceptives, or that block the effects of testosterone. It all depends on what the doctor finds. The onset of acne six months ago made me think of this, along with FIVE years of electrolysis.

7

James - I suppose that when I re-registered a couple of months ago, I did not fill out the profile, unintentionally. I can assure you that I have searched this board high and low for recommendations in the TORONTO area and have yet to find a confident referral (or at least one that is still able to be found/in business at that location). I have been researching new places on my own and the purpose of my posting was to get honest advice (from people who might care, rather than people who can make money from me), I guess what I am saying is that I was hoping for a little more advice/input regarding the electrolysis from you, in particular.

Christine and Dee - I appreciate your input very much. In truth, I research everything I do, before I do it. However, it is such an embarrassing problem for me, I guess I got stuck in the status quo, even when I questioned the practice…

Dee- you addressed my question perfectly about acne, because I was wondering if she could have spread the infection that way. If that did happen (which I suspect) would I still be suffering with it months later? I will def research the issues you brought up. I’m also seeing a naturopathic doctor right now, who has just tested my hormone levels (blood tests came back normal), hopefully I will have a better understanding at my next appointment. Regarding your questions, to be honest, at one point years ago I asked many of these questions, but no longer remember the specifics. I know that it was a silouette tone machine. Probe size #1 does that make sense? I did get an initial first clearance and actually got full clearance at every appointment. I don’t recall noticeable or often tweezing. I’m a germaphobe, so I would ensure hand washing prior to my appointment, but I had to be specific. I do question what would have happened had I not been diligent in making such requests. But again, I got stuck because I was too embarrassed to do anything else and to be honest, at some point I just trusted, which is not something that is easy for me anyways. By the time I realized it had been 5 years already… well…that’s what brought me back to the drawing board.

Again I thank you all for your time and advice. Please know, that I do believe in electrolysis and desperately want it to work for me. But like with everything else, so many people out there are doing it improperly, and unfortunately it is a timely discovery.

8

Okay. If she was using a size one probe, then those hairs should have been very, very teeny-weeny. If the probe does not match the hair diameter or is even slightly bigger, then there will be much regrowth and your time to completion will be prolonged (like five years). I know you said you have a lot of hair, but what is / was the structure like? Is it light and very, very fine hair? I never have had to use a size 1 probe, but have occassionally used a size two.

All else sounds fine and you seem like you are up on all this. Can’t help but wonder about the cause behind the hair. Most women are normal and healthy, but we always have to be alert to the possibilty of an internal medical cause. If infection was being spread per a contaminated probe, the infected areas should heal in the time frame that any acne blemish would heal. I’m thinking there is a hormonal event taking place, but it is only a guess.

Thanks for your post.

Dee

9

Thanks again for your insight Dee. The hair that I am concerned about is dark and coarse. Truly, I can’t remember it could have been 1 or could have been 3. I just don’t understand what could have been wrong, but something was. I mean there has been an improvement, but not as much of an improvement as I (and by the look of things, others on this board) would have expected.

The blood tests from my family doctor came back normal. But like I said, I am also being tested through my naturopath (saliva hormone test)so possibly those tests will reveal something. He suspects it is hormone related. I prefer to treat things naturally anyhow, which is also why it is difficult to treat the acne now because I don’t want to go on medication, but on the other hand, I can’t take much more of this.

thanks again for your concern Dee.

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Did your hair get finer / softer during the years you had treatment. To get scarring, your skin must have become very irritated after each treatment. Did you Have skin healing issues?

11

A size 1 or 3 probe would still be too small for coarse/very coarse hairs. THat is your problem on the electrolysis side of things IF she in fact was using a probe that is too small. Electrologists that use probes that are too small for the hair being treated are usually the ones that can’t see well enough or they are too cheap to purchase all sizes to be used when the situation at hand calls for treating larger hair structures.

Many women have all these tests and they come back within normal range, but they still have too much hair in all the wrong places! We call these women ‘hormonally vulnerable’. Unfortunately, their hair follicles are very sensitive to even the slightest amount of male hormone circulating through the blood. Even if you are hormonally sensitive woman, a SKILLED electrologist can get the hair removed permanently. Electrolysis needs to be performed correctly and when it is, it is deadly. This means forever dead and long, long gone. There is a shirt that the American Electrolysis Association sell that says something like, “Only three things are permanent. Death, Taxes & Electrolysis” .

This is all so true and it is a shame that people like yourself is not experinencing what a SKILLED, modern electrologist who uses modern tools, can do for you within a year or two.

Dee

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Christine - some of the hair did get finer… there was a def improvement of sorts. But not enough that it is still not an embarrassing, noticeable problem . I remember when I started the process thinking “wow, when I’m 25 this will all be a thing of the past”. Now I’m 28 and don’t feel in a much better place, plus with the scarring (and less money!). Regarding my skin, it wasn’t overly irritated after my treatments, it was noticeably red/patchy after the treatment, but it would calm right down and be nearly undetectable by the next day. I guess that is also why I had so much trouble distinguishing between something that was working and wasn’t because it sounded/felt like everything was alright, esp compared to some other experiences I had read about. What do you think? Thanks again for your input and thoughtful questions.

Dee - thank you for asking that! Truly that seems to be the only thing that makes sense now - if the probe was too small then I wasn’t getting the proper treatment! And I am almost positive it wasn’t a size larger than 3! I don’t know if/how that would affect the scarring? Unless it was the sheer number of years that my face had to go through such trauma on a weekly basis?? But I assure you, I haven’t given up on electrolysis. It is something I believe in (I went weekly for 5 years! haha). And you have def done a great job at maintaining the integrity of the profession! So I thank you again for that. I’m on an intense search for a new electrologist now. But I am thinking I should wait until my the breakouts on my face clear up a bit more.

13

We ALWAYS advise that you check out as many electrologists as possible and compare how it feels and heals, among other things. I feel exasperated sometimes when I hear stories like yours. I know that some practitioners are doing things they should know better about and not do! These situations pop up in other fields as well, like for instance, a “professional” painter slapping paint over dirt and peeling paint. How does one think that’s going to work out longterm? Whenever I am about to purchase something of signifigance, I research the heck out of it so I know if someone is BS’ing me. Many people have no integrety and plain don’t care about you - they just want the money. Yes, find someone else and put them on notice.

Fact: A smaller probe is a hotter probe, that is why I tend to choose larger probes for my clients. The follicle will stretch a little and you get more surface area and thus, less regrowth. It also offers less sensation with the largest probe possible.

Re-think your plan and if you could present of picture of your scarring, that would be helpful. I’m not so sure about the scarring part because you healed so well.

14

Yes, everything sounds so right, it is really hard to work out what has really gone on here. Howaver, I, as the electrologist ,would be asking questions, after 6 to 9 months, if there was no significant reduction in growth happening. So it still doesn’t explain why your operater carried on treating, without suggesting medical investigation. This time, have several short test sessions,to make comparisons, as recomended by this forum. It is very sensible advise. I wish you all the best and am really saddened by your story.

15

Even if you have a hormonal issue, you should have seen results. Hormonal issue would create new hair once in a while, but it wouldn’t just all grow back every week due to it.

What machine is being used? What method of electrolysis? Are you sure you’re not feeling any resistance after the hair is zapped and it slides out easily every time? How much experience does your electrologists have? Where are you located? Who else have you sampled? How soon does the hair grow back? Do you see any broken off hairs, i.e those that reappear within a few days or a week?

If you haven’t done so already, PLEASE start sampling other electrologists, especially those using newer computerized epilators offering thermolysis.

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Dee- I know what you mean, sometimes I make myself sick researching things! It’s just so hard to trust anyone anymore because so many people just don’t care. My camera is not working right now, unfortunately. But the scarring in on my chin, and are tiny pock marks. They are sometimes concealable, but they are still there. Noticeable enough that 3 other professionals (derm and estheticians) commented. I don’t know how my skin could have reacted so well, yet there are scars? I’m not sure what the cause could be? I will mention that it is weird that even the upper lip and side burn area barely improved as well, and they are less hormonal areas than, say, the chin, correct?

Christine- I agree with you. After so many years, or even from the get go, why didn’t she ever question my hormones? And why did she rave about the great results, when clearly still having to go weekly after 5 years, does not indicate great results! Thank you for your kind concern.

LaGirl - Hair was def there every week, by a few days before my weekly appointment, I would not want to go out, because of the appearance of the hair. It was a silouette tone machine. Sometimes blend (upper lip) and thermolysis on my chin. I preferred the blend. My electrologist had about 15-20 years experience. I def felt more pain from the actual “zap” than the sensation of tweezing. I’m not sure about the broken hairs.
I am still in the research phase, and I haven’t sampled anyone else yet, but I stopped going for treatments in June because of an acne outbreak. I am in the Toronto area. Any thoughts?

Thanks again!

17

If she was using a Silhouet Tone VMC, you had a that side of the equation right, so I’m questioning her skill level. Just the thought of hearing about the probe size information is all I need to know. The pitting and scarring part is a little harder to pinpoint and settle on with any degree of sureness.

Dee

18

We have many contributors here from Toronto. Use the Advaced Search feature at the top right and run a search for the city name to see past discussions and recommendations.

I would recommend finding someone with an Apilus machine if possible. Thermolysis is just fine and fastest, in good hands. Blend is only sometimes necessary on very deep hairs.

After 4-6 months, you should have seen a considerable reduction in regrowth. If you didn’t, it was likely due to bad treatments, i.e. not good insertions and/or breaking off hair.

Unfortunately, that’s exactly why sampling several electrologists is necessary. You can’t really know if you’re getting good treatments if you have nothing to compare them to.

19

Thank you for the input. I will take all this information into consideration in my new search. The scary part is that I thought I followed this on my original search! but I have 5 years under my belt now, so my experience should lend alot to the new search.

I will keep you updated on my search.

20

I have missed parts of this conversation until now. I must report that unfortunately, I don’t have any more Toronto area referrals, as everyone that I knew who worked there has moved away. My closest sure contact is in Orangeville now.