Advice for customers.

Hi, first of all I would like to clarify some points regarding the “method” of 3 clearances.

It would be very helpful for the customers to see before and after pictures in high definition of the before and the after of the 3 clearing process in an untouched area prior treatment of a minimum of 6 months.

Electrolysis, regardless the modalities of the technique ( thermolyses, multiplex,blend). DOES destroy permanently (that means forever!) the hair follicles ONLY in the hand of a good practitioner. The hair has to be killed the first time. (Not In 2 or 3 atempts.)

There is one electrologist on this forum who provide a very very good work. Her name is Josefa. It is not a surprise for everyone of this forum I guess :slight_smile:

Why it is a very good professional ? The answers is very simple, she always provided pictures of decent quality of differents successful treatments of women and mans as well. From the start to the beginning with good explications of the immediate skin reaction. That’s the first thing which is in my opinion very important. It allow customers to expect what they can obtain from HER works.

The second very important thing is that she’s doesn’t like to mess with the hair. When she treat a hair it is very unlikely to regrowth, believe me!

i have been treated for the past few years by differents electrologist with virtual good reputation on the internet. The quality of the work is not the same at all. ( Quality of work refer to the ability of the practitioner to kill the folicles in one time.) to judge the quality of the work of an electrologist, take a pictures before the treatment and 3 month after a clearing and jidge of you had ingrown hair or hair that are cute of at the top of them. If there Is a lot of them. You have to move because you want your hair killed the fist time not a never ending process for the SAME hair. Don’t look at your skin for this 3 month. Don’t be bothered by little redness or skin manifestation. I Will resolve and it is very unlikely to have permanent damage in the hand of most of the electrologist who post on the Internet and participate to forumlike this one.

Customers wants to see good photographies of complete treatment.
I always say that a good picture is much more intéressant than to much talking.
Electrologist can take close up shot in order to protect the identity of their customers. They can also sign a form of consent. In general this is not a problem to post close up pictures of someone because of you explain them that this can help others in making a choice for a treatment, this is a perfectly fine reason and people want to help. THERE IS NO EXCUSE for an electrologist to no provide precise pictures of their work during a complete treatment. Not after only 1 or 2 clearances. After the 3 clearance too!

People on this forum ask the same questions over and over again. It is boring and I understand the professional who are tired to answer the questions asked more than 25 times. Customers needs clear informations befire they choose to go for a treatment.

Keep in mind, a referal of an electrologist mean NOTHING. You want to see proof precisois tratment of work that is going to be done on your face or in your body.
So, pictures took at every stage during a treatment from before to 3 month after the 3 clearing is kind of a good exemple of what an electrologist can provide in term of permanent hair removal on an area.

Electrolysis works on every hair and every skin and every type of hair, from straight to curly ( anlagen and telogen as well!)

So customers: before starting a treatments ask the following questions: how is it going to take ? How many clearances to have 99% of the hair gone forever ? Can you profile me pictures of a former customers before, after the 1 clearing, after the second and more than 3 mo the after the 3 clearing.

Electrologist: please profide pictures of your work in a serious way. A very good electrologist name josefa did it since many years so I guess you can do it to. We wasn’t to know what to expect.

I hope this post gonna be helpful for the custimers trying to find an electrologist and for the electrologists who can improve their way of working with more visibility of their results.


Let me add to your statement that Josefa (and me too) are often ostracized by people in our profession (make that USUALLY ostracized). My book was published in 1991 and probably the first discussion of “the 3-clearances” strategy (I called it “clear and wait”). When I presented this (and other data, e.g. wound-healing) to a big convention, I was told I was a LIAR! One woman said, “I hate you!” I mean, right to my face! I never ventured into a convention again.

The “anagen only” and “papilla only” and “blood supply” and “curved follicle” people insist (even after the ideas were disproved in a 1968 book) that they are right. I gave up.

Indeed, I do have photos, but recently I threw away about 1,000 35mm photos because nobody (practitioners) care to see or discuss … well … anything. Most electrologists hold onto their ancient concepts because, for some reason, it fulfills what they are doing (or not doing).

But you do get tired of it all. I have done a few videos … and, if I get my energy back, might continue and present real data; not just empty ideas. Meanwhile, I just stick to my few clients and clean them up as I’ve done for the last 40 years.

My kindred spirit in the electrology world? … Well, you said it … Josefa.

Michael, you are one of the electrologist that post pictures of his work too and thank you for doing that.

Men and women who can’t believe that hair can be destroyed permanently can’t go to an electrologist who don’t have documented pictures of all stage of the treatments. Well in many cases they begin their treatment, but they are always concerned about skin conditions from day + 1 after their treatments. They go and ask questions on forums over and over, because they don’t know what to expect in terms of results from their practionners.

On hairtell, I want to see more pictures of clearances spaced by month and follow up posted by customers or electrologists. In 2017 we can have acces to very good digital hd cameras and not using this technology that we have in purpose to show the facts of your work is a shame.

Regarding the non permanent side effects of the skin, as you often say Michael, electrolysis is a micro surgical act so when you engage in such an action like this, expect your skin to have big scabs and hyper pigmentation in some cases. It is normal!

To conclude, I will repeat myself a second time but it is important. Before treating a large area. Ask the practitioner to do a patch test in 2 differents area and ask her/him to remove every single hair in the zone. This zone has to be left alone for at least 4 months prior doing this patch test. After 3 month you will be able to tell if the treatments is worth it or no. You have to see a difference if the electrologist did his job correctly. If not and if you see mostly hairs with shaved appearance. This is not a good thing !

You must be a mind-reader? Yes to everything, of course.

It would be nice, however, if people could very simply and directly upload photos to Hairtell. I just gave up on the photo business, because of the little dance we have to do (e.g., photobucket) to post photos. A “drop-in” feature, like Facebook, would increase people’s sharing and readership as well.

As you say, and I 100% agree, people want to SEE and not hear all the hyperbole and puffing … and (sometimes) fake endorsements (make that BS!).

I must be the weird one. I cant remember the last client I was able to convince that the clinic to take a before photo. I’ve gotten to the point I just highly stress they take such photos themselves and the reasons why. Maybe people are more prvate here? or maybe I’m just not communicating it well.
Anytime I’ve ever asked a client if we could take a photo beforehand, they get this horrified look.

I have the same issue here… Nobody wants to have photos taken.

I m not a mind reader yet Michael ahah.

I’m against when someone who is in Europe and make an endorsement about a professional in the states. If you haven’t been treated by this person how, can you say" This person is terrifi", go to see him/her." The same if you didn’t even see pictures of good quality from this practionner.

Yes i agree with the fact that it is long and not easy to post pictures on the forum hairtell. But creating a page in Flickr or in an another online photo storage website is very easy and we can put the link on hairtell and the reader can click on them and consults the album. Very easy to do.

Here is a selection of online storage website where you can easily create online albums.

Let me give you an example. When you consult for a surgical procedure, the surgeon take pictures. I have never heard or seen a surgeon who doesn’t take pictures of his patients. It has to be the same with electrolysis. You are not painting on nails, you are removing hair permanently :slight_smile:

It has to be part of the process. Josefa didn’t have any problem taking pictures of her clients for an exemple. And thanks to this customers. When an electrologist is confident with his ability to kill hair the first time and complete an untouched area In 3/4 clearances there should be no excuses or problems to display and show they work.

Electrolysis, as said before is a micro aesthetic surgical procedure. It’s essential for the electrologist to take pictures. If not. Nobody can tell with precision how the treatment is going. People forget, and a good way to remind them the fact is to look at the pictures who always say the reality at a moment of a time.

I hope electrologist will understand that pictures is now needed. The is a way to explain to the client how crucial it is to have pictures.

The true is that sometimes, some electrologists are not able to provide results like Josefa or Michael and they prefer don’t take pictures. They do their work on a routine but their kill rate are not very good at all. What every electrologist should do is to always want to improve their results and finishing a customers should be very exiting and enjoying remonving permanently the hair and taking pictures to show their work. They should be proud of it. Unfortunately, it seems that it is often not the case. Let me tell you something. A record of very happy patients that new customers can for some get in contacts, with no retuning hairs documented with pictures with the modalities of the treatments is worth a degree!

Well said Roselake.

I think it could be a good idea to open a thread called “before&after pictures” and just basically just for this purpose. I think it will motivate many people who is bothered by hairs, and make them believe that it actually exists a permanent hair removal solution.

Very Good idea actually.

Thank you Secred Sid.

Dear Roselake,

Your comments are uncanny … almost like you are “inside my head.” I wonder: who are you? Let me add to your comments.

There is an often quoted statement that “all clients are different,” with the assumption that, therefore, absolutely no prediction is possible. For the most part, this is nonsense. There are not that many areas on the body that have hair, and … if the electrologist takes careful notes … patterns will be obvious.

The client should ask what the averages are for her/his specific area of concern. These averages are NOT based on anything other than the therapist’s own personal numbers ONLY! Not anybody else’s numbers … just the electrologist’s! The expert can determine if the specific patient has more than the average … or less than. Then some general TTT figure can be given to the client. General … but … “ballpark!”

Consideration MUST be given to age and to hormone imbalances. However, these data can be factored in. And, if no general estimate can be made, there should be reasons why such an estimate is not possible. (Indeed, sometimes you cannot make an estimate.)

For example, if an 18-year-old man is starting to grow hair on his back there is no way to predict what will eventually grow in (some idea by examining the “shooters”). A woman with PCOS, in the early stages? Same deal: no way to predict the eventual outcome. However, this is not the case for such areas as the underarms, bikini area, legs, and a man’s back that is fully grown in.

Electrologists and laser therapists should at least make some sort of effort to put a number on what the client is expecting. Strangely, nearly all clients NEVER ask such specific questions. “Lambs to the slaughter!” Now, as far as Hairtell becoming a show-place for before & after photos?

That’s not happening. There are less than a hand-full of electrologists who post on this site; and only a scant few will showcase their work, or offer real numbers. Hairtell is a cacophony of non-specific information. Posters on this site are primarily “freaked-out” neurotic patients with imaginary post-treat boo-boos. It’s tiresome to be answering the same questions (with stridently unaccepted answers) hundreds of times. Except for a few die-hards, most of us have given up on this hopeless endeavor.

Make a new venue and I will “share!” Still, you will only be seeing photos from Dee Dee, Seana, Josefa and me.

Going back to 3 clearance strategy, it’s unrealistic to expect it from the overwhelming majority in electrology industry around the world. Most can’t deliver results in 3 clearances and dismissing their capabilities will only leave confused and frustrated clients with hairy struggles.
What’s better chasing 3 clearance electrologists and not finding them or settling for your local electrologists who will give you hair free results in 18-24 month through monthly clearances?

The 3 clearance strategy topic was only touched on surface. No electrology school teaches it and no one has released a comprehensive educational material on how to perform it successfully. We know that this strategy requires pain management by injection as treatment currents needed to guarantee high kill rates with each treatment are not the standard currents all electrologists are taught to operate with when they train to operate their units of different brands. Most don’t have access to work with licensed medical professionals who can do pain management injections.

Hello Michael,

It is very interesting to hear more about the differents factors that can change the outcome of a treatment.

As you are the one who did a lot for electrolysis since many years. I take it as a compliment. I’m a customer who undertook how electrolysis worked and want to help others to avoid the same mistakes that I made.

I appreciate your appreciation.

The high kill rate has nothing to do with the infiltration of local anesthesia. I could show you dozens of cases in which no anesthetic was necessary, and the result is exactly the same.

This strategy requires ONLY that the practitioner make precise insertions, and apply sufficient current in order not to force a SINGLE hair.

You are right about one thing, some electrolysis schools are teaching how to do TWEEZING, when they should strive to teach you how to do permanent hair removal.

The 3 clearances strategy has been explained and illustrated a hundred times in public and in private, Fenix. I do not know why the schools refuse to include it in their teaching program. Perhaps because it contradicts what they have been defending for decades, the stupid theory that telogen hairs can not be destroyed.
However, I will tell you that to apply this strategy, you do not need to do a master’s degree in electrology. You just have to understand the meaning of two verbs, “clear” and “wait”. Exactly, the terms used by Michael to name this strategy.

The good news is that more and more electrologists are betting on this strategy and checking that their kill rate is much higher than they thought.
A change that will directly benefit customers around the world.

Fenix, I’d like to answer to this sentence. “What’s better chasing 3 clearance electrologists and not finding them or settling for your local electrologists who will give you hair free results in 18-24 month through monthly clearances?”

Do you know that if, what you call “your local electrologist” is not killing properly hair, you won’t be able to be hair free in 18-24 month. If you suggest that customers have to go monthly to epilate a bunch of improperly treated hair, “true regrowth” do you know that the cost will be very high for this customers.

Requiring professionals who don’t pluck and treat effectively the majority of the hairs they epilate it’s common sense.

Being defeatist and paying for a service where you can end up paying twice the price you should have payed because the practionner do not master how to kill hair the faite time is not what we need to make things evolve in a better way.

I’m sorry, but fenix is right. If your whole country only has a bunch of electrologists, that have never even heard of this method, what is a person supposed to do? Travel elsewhere to do it? Do you think that will be less costly?

My electrologist might not be a genius and she might not have an all kill rate. But she does the job effectively and I will be done before 2 years. Sometimes you get what you can because there’s no other option. In the end, it’s far more better to get an electrologist who’s mediocre than do laser, especially on the face which is my concern.

I’m sorry if I come off as argumentative, but I’ve been seeing all these posts the past few days, practically shitting on your normal electrologist, and I just wanted to point out that it’s not always possible to find a certified amazing one, according to your standards ofc.

I think nobody is questioning whether people should travel or not. Quite the opposite, what I understand Roselake means is that BEFORE traveling, you should make sure it’s worth it.

Roselake is giving good advice. To demand real proofs about the effectiveness of the practitioner in whom you are going to invest your time and your money does not mean to disqualify anyone, except those who charge for “plucking” what should be electrolysis.

I don’t disrespect anyone by explaining facts. If some professionals are plucking hairs and call what they do “electrolysis” it is our role ( professionals who do proper electrolysis with high kill rate amd customers who experienced proper treatments) to explaIn that this not something impossible to destroy permanently a hair. It require skill and work but it is acheviable.

There are electrologists who work like the school teach them, they do not want to hear people like Michael and his “clear and wait strategy.”

There are electrologists who understood that they can work the way Michael Bono discribted in his books amd killing a telogen hair is not something impossible!
There are maybe, and I hope! many good professionals like this!
But applying this strategy is not all you have to do to bring customers in the goal they want. You have to apply enough current and don’t be afraid to make big scabs with a precise insertion. If you feel a little resistance, adjust the settings…

Josefa, I agree. Thank you. before traveling you need to make sure it is worth it and even if you are not traveling and stay in your city you need to be sure the practionner is doing a good job.

I think it is much more interessant to speak the true about electrolysis, maybe giving advices to help another professional who want to improve his/her kill rate if you are a pro. And explaining how to avoid loosing time and money, than talking all the time about the SAME THINGS "Apilus junior or apilus senior? Is instantron worth it ? Their website is not new generation so can we trust them? Of course you can trust people of instantron by the way.
I’m scarred I will be left with hyperpigmentation. Is it best to apply aloe vera or tea tree oil? The smell of tea tree is very strong so i kinda prefer aloe but I’m wondering if it is good for my skin as it leave a dry coating…
People with common sens are done with this questions on this forum.

I mean, you can ask questions like this but the main problem is this that is like a scratched disk. In another forums, there are stricts rules and when someone ask a question to a problem that has been resolve, people on the forums tell him to search on the FAQ or to manually search. We can be kind and give the link to this people too.

Saying facts should not be a problem. It can be a problem for the ones who don’t care about their customers and find excuses for not killing hairs. For those people I can understand that saying publicly what electrolysis really is, disturb them.

ok Ill admit it I’ve been avoiding this ( and all of roselake’s threads) for a while now. I guess it’s because it was generally a LOT of reading, something I havent had quite enough time for recently but also because , despite my feelings these series of post represent a bt of “one Twue Way” ism I wasnt seeing anything I immediately objected to.Now I do.

Hairtell is notoriously poorly designed and so searching for information asked in the past, is a virtual impossibility. So saying " we’re done with these questions go searchthe FAQ" just doesnt work here. And it’s the opposite of the general purpose of this forum. Can some of the questions be repetitive? Absolutely, and you arent the first to say this. But in absence of an easy way to reference such materials, we do NOT want to discourage consumers from asking about their treatment concerns.

I have a lot of respect for the work of people like Josepha, Michael, Beate, Dee, Arlene, Emancipated Elect. But the style of working of each electrologist is chosen, because that is what works for them. While I agree there are shortcomings in electrolysis education, this does NOT mean that good qualified electrologists who are really killing hair, arent graduating from them. In fact,my experience is the opposite.

I have several clients who travel some great distances to see me ( some from the west coast even) . I dont treat any of them with a clear and wait strategy. Generally we plan our treatments around the client tolerance, and the desired effect ( usually starting with a thinning approach for large areas) .I definitely kill hair.And so do a lot of other fine electrologists who managed to continue their education beyond the basics of electrolysis school.

Over the years I’ve seen a lot of posters here tray…and fail, to tout that this method or that is the best and so thats what everyone should be using. Well the truth is, there is no “One Best Way” and to say that electrologists who dont follow this one method de jour arent killing hair, is a diservice to the profession in general.