A possible Situation ? - theoretically speaking..

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
1

Hey people,
I was wondering about something …

Theoretically speaking -

Suppose a man (mid-late 20s) with a very hairy back,takes a razor and shaves off every last hair off the entire back.

A few days later , with all the stubble starting to come through (which would almost entirely be in anagen stage then , right?), the man goes to an electrologist,has a few intensive sittings in a row and within say 1 week or so has achieved a first full clearance of every last hair across the entire area.

How far towards achieving full,permanent total clearance of the whole area would this man then be,having achieved a first full-clearance in the manner described ???

ie. Just how much of an impact would have been made in the area 10 years down the track, if this man had gone and gained this 1 entire ,full-clearance of his back, but then never had electrolysis again after that???

what might we be talking about here ? 40% permanent reduction in the area? 60% ? what ?

Just a little hypothetical scenario Ive been mulling over in my head.

cheers for any of the usual great feedback folks.
Hank

2

I wouldn’t like to guess at the percentage removed as this it varies a great deal but 10 years down the line you would perhaps notice the hair is a little sparser than before. If you did this clearance 2 or 3 times over the course of a couple of years you’d see a bigger difference.

3

In my experience, the answer to the question as it was asked is permanent hair removal of 30 to 50% of the visible hairs in the area.

4

i think this would also depend on the type of electrolysis used and skill of the electrologist of course. if the electrologist is good and they’re using thermolysis, then the rate of killing the hair on the first time is around 50% or so generally speaking, and if it’s galvanic and the electrologist is really good, it can be 80-90%. the hair you’re treating is still only 1/3 of total hair you have since the rest is not in anagen stage. so that would mean you can kill of about 16 - 30% of hair.

5

I understand that this is splitting semantic hairs here, but his question asks how much hair reduction would occur if a full clearance was done, and then nothing.

Since the question says, a full clearance is done, it makes modality irrelevant. Modality would only matter to the amount of time needed to obtain full clearance and the likelihood of a client sitting through that much work in a short period of time.

We assume a good practitioner, as why would we attempt to make a guesstimate for someone providing poor results? Depending on when this is done and what part of the body it is performed on, there can be as much as 80% of the growing hair in anagen phase at a given time, so all things considered, a full clearance, no matter how it is achieved can, in the best situation lead to 50% reduction in the number of visible hairs growing in an area.

Your 80 to 90% figure is for the kill rate of actual hairs treated, not the amount of visible hairs in an area. I hope this clarifies the difference for others who have made the same error in interpretation of this topic.

6

I know you meant to clarify, but I am not clear…

Certainly, we can safely assume good technique and a full (and quick) clearance. However, LA girl and James have these different initial assumptions:

LAGirl:
(A) Anagen hairs as a % of total hair = 33%
(G) Galvanic kill rate of treated hair = 80 - 90%
(T) Thermolysis kill rate of treated hair = 50%

James:
(A) Anagen hairs as a % of total hair = up to 80%

If (A)x(G) and (A)x(T) are the total permanent percentages of hair that will NOT return for Galvanic and Thermolysis respectively, then we can see that LAGirl says Galvanic will yield 23% - 30% and Thermolysis will yield 16%. Thus, her concluding numbers.

James says method is irrelevant to this analysis and that 30% - 50% elimination is possible. So, can I infer a kill rate of 37% - 62% to get this result?

I agree with his last paragraph, but did not think that LAGirl was unclear in this regard. Of course, I suppose there are those who would misread it…

Anyway, this appears to be a good approach for anyone who wants reduction in these ranges. Downside is if it is NOT enough, then you must start again…

7

tex is correct. my example and thus the result already took into account that 80-90% or the 50% is the kill rate for the VISIBLE hairs in ANAGEN.

8

The reason I created this entire thread is as follows:

I have recently been thinking about leaving my waffling,mediocre electrolysis routine (thats just hit the 2 year mark , but with many months of zero sessions in that time for various reasons) and finding a highly experienced/credentialed/skilled and super fast electrologist ( perhaps even flying overseas in the not too distant future if required)to finally put an end to the approach to electrolysis that I now find myself immersed in…and get full clearance in one big hit.

So I was just curious to see how much of an impact one big full clearance would have , if that was all I was to do…

9

I have a few clients who live far away, and come on a certain schedule, or just whenever they can. We perform full clearances as time allows. One such client is so pleased with our work that the client has signed a model’s release to allow me to show pictures of our progress to anyone who would like the answer to just such a question as yours.

Enjoy:

For best viewing, you may need to save the picture to your computer and use the enlarge function of whatever picture viewer you use.

The client sent me this photo to ask me to estimate how much time would be needed for first clearance. Note the skin irritation from shaving, and the ingrown hairs.
[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/frontimage3.jpg[/image]

This is our first official “Before” Picture.
[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/mike4202005002.jpg[/image]

First Clearance (we did not get to finish the full neck area)
[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/Mike4292005022.jpg[/image]

This is what the treatment area looked like 6 weeks later.
[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/mike5282005060.jpg[/image]

Next Clearance:
[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/mike682005075.jpg[/image]

About 4 months later:
[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/HPIM0738.jpg[/image]

There were two treatments after this, for which neither of us can locate the progress pics.

I do have this pic taken during our appointment at the 9 month point.
[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/IMG_6030.jpg[/image]

The Eleven Month Point … This is the photo where you get to see how successful the first clearance was. You will note the ingrown hair bumps on the neck, where we were unable to do any clearance on the neck during that first clearance. The client is no longer shaving the face at all at this point:
[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/Mia.jpg[/image]

and then we have this photo that is 15 months after the first treatment.

[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/HPIM1239.jpg[/image]

There are two more pictures in this progression, but I don’t have time to get them on here now. I will edit this later to add them.

10

wow James… some very impressive work that is indeed!

How many hours/sessions did it take before you got to first clearance on this guy ? , and how many separate sittings was it before that first clearance ?

By the way, you use Flash thermolysis if I recall correctly right?

Again… that looks like some super speedy work.
Also How many hours/sessions was this guy doing each week ?

Ive probablky averaged around 1-1.5 hrs p/week or sometimes only every 2 or 3 weeks (If my electrologist gets booked out, or im busy or whatever else) for the last 18 months with definite improvements and good results but still very slow progress and nowhere near completion… AARGH…and this isnt a full face Im tALKING about. Its just upper arms,shoulders and full back (which isnt even as full as some “bear-suits” Ive seen)

my Results so far: from 2 inches above elbows to shoulder tops are near first clearance, and look almost bare with each session. shoulder tops to top of shoulder blades/upper back are in the vicinity of 20-35% improved from original. Rest of back down to waste = untouched yet.
>>which is perhaps the most worrying aspect of all my treatment - the fact that until she starts working on my back Im still always 9+ months+ away from getting to absolute full and final clearance of desired areas.

Again ,thanks for this very helpful feedback.

cheers,
Hank

ps> Had anyone from as far as Australia coming to see you??

11

The folks who come in from out of town usually arrange to be able to stay overnight in what ever city we meet, if I have not traveled to their city.

The client pictured did the first 20 hours for full clearance interspersed with sight seeing, meals, and TG group meetings. In all we did the work over about 5 to 7 days at a leisurely pace. Once the musts, like viewing Niagara Falls were out of the way, subsequent visits had 20 hours done in as little as 3 days. (We refuse to miss meals over this and jet-lag dictated start times) I would say that the average person could easily do 4 to 6 hours a day as long as meal breaks are worked in (and I insist that they are).

As for Aussie’s, I have a growing number of them who want to bring me out there. The problem with that is where to meet up. If everyone could agree on a place like Sydney, we would be all set. Who knows, I may be down under in the next year.

12

Hanky Said:

"How many hours/sessions did it take before you got to first clearance on this guy ? , and how many separate sittings was it before that first clearance ?

By the way, you use Flash thermolysis if I recall correctly right?

Again… that looks like some super speedy work.
Also How many hours/sessions was this guy doing each week ?"

I really don’t think it is showing her any respect to refer to her as a guy, over and over again.

Alicia

13

It appears that I did not make some things clear in my reply, so I will firm those up a bit here.

Although I can do galvanic and blend, and utilize them when I deem it beneficial to the client, most work is done in MicroFlash or Multi-Plex-MicroFlash.

Large area work is done with 2 to 3 hours of work, followed by a food break, and then we get back to it. This is why most facial cases can be cleared the first time in a day or three if we hit it hard, or a week if we make it part vacation, part hair removal. Most of my clients don’t find the condition of their skin to be a social impediment to being in public.

14

Here are the two most recent pictures that I could not find before:

She is only wearing eyeliner and lipstick in this picture. As shown in previous pictures, including the first shot sent by the client, the client has naturally rosey cheeks.
[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/MiaJuly2006.jpg[/image]

[image]http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/ExecutiveClearance/MiaAug2006.jpg[/image]

15

Hi
Did this person use electrolysis to remove the chest and shoulder hair, because looking at the pics it looks like she had alot of chest hair and also hair poking out the back of her neck. How long did it take her to remove all the hair she had. Im assuming she had a hairy chest because it seems that way from the pics and now she’s completely bare.

16

Hi James:

She looks very nice in the latter photos.

Some of the early ones you showed were obviously taken after treatment and the one with her upper lip being puffy is not a flattering one. It is nice to see the finished product.

It looks like you have done a very good job, and she looks happy, so that is the important thing.

Alicia

17

Hi James,

One question for you here. Did you do her brow shaping as well or is she using other methods to do this? They look very nice as well.

All in alll, a very nice piece of work and she looks fabulous!

Joanie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

18

Yes, we cleared the chest and did the neck front and back. Yes, I did the eyebrow shaping too. Yes, most of the pictures were taken either immediately before, or after work was done, (the black and white one is from a business card, and the really unflattering one was just after being awakened on the treatment table – she sleeps through most treatments, but before going back to bed to sleep off the jet lag from crossing 4 time zones) and finally, we have done 230 hours spread out over the face, eyebrows, neck, chest, back, shoulders, hands, SRS Bikini Prep, and toes in 16 months.