A guy's treatment diary

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#1

Hello All,

I won’t give much of my background because I already posted it in the LHR forum. Originally I started with LHR, but after a few test spots my doc suggested we not proceed for fear of hyperpigmentation. Frankly I think this was for the better, because I now have read enough in the medical literature that LHR would have a quite low probability of achieving the clearness I want on my skin. Plus 6 full laser rounds (the minimum I hear people say one needs) would have cost more than $8000, and that buys a metric ass load of electrolysis–probably enough to get the results I want and with as good a guarantee as there is.

Anyway, you can see my starting pictures at the old thread:

I actually thought it would be a good idea to start slowly and began by going to AIE to have students work on me in their clinic to help them get hours. In exchange I get a low cost of treatment. Plus I like helping students. So I’ve been going there for a few hours. Today I went to a pro just to compare their speed (and estimate a cost per hair removed) and I was just flat out amazed. I didn’t think it was possible to remove that many hairs in an hour (I counted north of 500). I’ll probably continue going to AIE to help the students but I’m booking a couple 8 hour sessions with my new pro to accelerate that first clearance.

The goals are the same as last thread–let’s see how I do with electrolysis.

Bryce

#2

I have always scratched my head when people say that LASER is cheaper than Electrolysis, or that self work or other unskilled work is cheaper than going to a pro.

Good Luck, and Enjoy your hairlessness

#3

James, your statement is misleading. It depends on the area and type of hair, how many hairs you’re treating, and how many treatments it takes with laser to get the reduction you want (some people are fine with a reduction after 2-3 treatments that cannot be achieve with electrolysis at that cost on any area).

Since I’ve done both laser and electrolysis as you know, I can guarantee that it would have taken a lot more than $500 for my underarms to be done, which is all I spend on laser for 95% removal there. To compare, it cost me $300 just to do my upper lip with electrolysis, which had very minimal and very fine hair to begin with.

#4

I don’t want to get into it with you, but what I said is only misleading depending on who is doing the work and on whom the work is being done.

#5

It’s misleading because it’s a blanket statement, which taken without context is technically incorrect. The fact is that even if treated by the fastest electrologist in the world, electrolysis is at most the same price, but usually more expensive on areas with coarse hair, especially smaller ones like bikini and underarms. And even if it costs the same to be done, which is rare, it takes a lot longer in terms of time spent in an office getting the treatment. Effectiveness is a completely separate issue and it’s relative. I’m talking about comparing apples to apples as we should be here anyway. Making blanket statements comparing apples to oranges is misleading. I think we should all just strive to be unbiased here.

#6

Not to sound rude Bryce but from your photos you seem pretty pale. I don’t see how you would get hyperpigmentation, unless you’ve been tanning. Either way electrolysis is great, thank god it was invented. I personally have found electrolysis on the back and shoulders/upper arms the best method for me. I have also received laser on the chest and stomach with a good reduction. Finding someone fast and skilled is the difficult task at hand.

Good luck.

#7

I agree. Bryce had some trouble with the doctor he was seeing for hair removal who was cautious. Btw, would love to see some pictures of pigmentation and in general updated pictures from the ones you first posted before the treatments.

Good luck with finding a good fast electrologist. As you are in LA, see my and others’ reviews on the 3-4 popular ones here if you run a search. I would recommend Sabrena Smith for you since speed is important. Robin Harris is good too, but no weekend hours I believe. There is also Mary’s Aesthetics in WeHo where they may have two people treat you at the same time - I’m not sure.

You do have a lot of hair, so this is going to be a long process even to get to a first clearance which you should concentrate on first. If it were me, I would stick with laser (at a different more clinic - there have been good posts about Dr Hamilton in BH as well as LaserAway in WeHo, who are also MUCH cheaper than the one you were seeing who charges a pretty high amount for large areas) for the usually easy to treat areas like your stomach and chest considering how dark and coarse your hair is there and light the skin. And would start with electrolysis on upper arms and shoulders first which need to be treated with electrolysis anyway.

#8

Here’s an update on my progress. Although I like helping the students, they are just too slow to clear me in the time I want; I might continue to let them work on me once I am just re-clearing. So I’ve now gone to my pro for three sessions of 4 hours. I can’t take 8 hours; it’s just too much/boring.

In the dozen hours she worked she cleared my right shoulder and about halfway down the upper arm, all the nooks and crannies by my armpit, and on up through the neckline on my right side, over the clavicle, a little down onto my chest/border shoulder, and has now started working over to my right upper back.

It’s hard to estimate how long it will take to clear my right side. First, we have to re-clear everything which sometimes takes 2 hours. I imagine that we will have a few sessions where she does nothing but re-clear me for 4 hours after we get a bit more done. Second, some areas are more time consuming for her to get a rhythm going, although she is ambidextrous which helps a great deal. I think electrolysis is a bit like painting in reverse. It takes a lot of time edging and priming and you don’t see much progress, and then suddenly a huge area get “painted” and looks great. If I had to estimate, I’d say I’m looking at 40-60 hours for my right side (half the job I want, to start). I’m going to photograph my right side once I get cleared to share my progress. On the bright side, my pro thinks I’m going to get faster results because I can tolerate the settings being cranked up. She said they’re at the max she’s ever treated anyone for the area.

There have been some unexpected things. On the plus side, she’s been great about identifying and gently removing ingrown hairs. Sometimes these things were an inch long and buried deeply. She sees stuff I couldn’t imagine through that loupe. I think my skin quality will modestly improve in the long run without ingrowns (not that I thought I had that many, but she finds 4-6 every session, probably due to my shaving a few times in the last year) and because my hair won’t be there to irritate my skin. I can’t tell you how many times it’s caught on clothing and rubbed the wrong way. On the minus side of unexpected things it takes longer than I want to heal up. Although the hair is gone, I haven’t yet seen what I’m going to look like. The treated areas do recover pretty fast but the little scabs are ugly, sometimes I get an infected follicle (oof, this last round I got a lot and it looked terrible, but is recovering now). The little blemishes that were previously covered up by hair (perhaps I was too distracted by the hair to care) will take some time to heal. It’s like I have to get worse before I can get better. However, I recognize my focus has shifted from hair to skin quality; that’s a nice change.

On cost, electrolysis is not cheap in the short run. 12 hours in a month is a pretty significant chunk out of my income. However, it’s never as big a chunk as if I had a single laser treatment done (note I am talking about absolute cost per month, not relative to the number of hairs), and I anticipate that once I am cleared and in the maintenance phase of my treatments, this cost will decline precipitously until I decide to begin my left side. I’m keeping a log of my treatments so I can share what the cost curve was over time.

Best to Everyone,

Bryce

#9

I am getting severe irritation (infected follicles) on my back. It’s painful when I touch it. Super red, very raised bumps, really nasty stuff. I’m going to ask my pro to do a completely different area until this goes away, although I will continue to have her reclear my shoulder at the end of my session (so as not to spread the infection).

How common are infected follicles? I always get severe irritation when I shave or wax. Am I more likely to have this also when I do electrolysis? What the heck can I do? This is really getting on my nerves.

#10

My advice is to get to First Clearance as quickly as possible so that you can end this as soon as possible. The faster you are cleared, the fewer hairs there will be to work on, and the fewer hairs that are growing at any one time, so there are fewer hairs to get infected in the first place. Depending on who you ask, one in ten problem follicles to one in a hundred problem follicles would be normal.

#11

Hey Bryce I thought I’d check in on your situation. I certainly feel for you by looking at your photos. I have just about the same skin type as you, coarseness and color of hair, but only on my upper arms and shoulders. What areas are you wishing to treat?

I really think you should look into laser IF you plan on treating your chest and stomach. This is coming from a guy who hates laser for the most part. I’ve had over 25 treatments, but I did see results on my chest and stomach. Most people respond alot better than I do as well. It cleared up my stomach well, and my chest pretty good as well. It caused more growth to my shoulders and upper arms but we won’t go there on this thread. I used the GENTLELASE. I don’t know where you are located, but I know a guy that has unbelieveable prices. He is a MD in a rural area away from large cities, and he just has real low prices. It would probably be cost effective to even travel to his office for treatments because it is so much cheaper.

I don’t know why your doctor is worried about pigment issues. You have pale skin and dark hair, perfect candidate for laser. As I said, I’ve had 4 different lasers worked on me and none of them caused any pigment issues…and this is even while neglecting the advice of the tech. IE: I would go into the sun right after treatment.

I hope you can find a good micro flash electrologist because you have alot of hair if you are planning on doing your entire back. I wouldn’t be suprised if it would cost 20K to get that area (back-shoulders)completed. I’ve spent $6800 in ten months and I’m not even half done yet.

#12

bryce, are you using any aftercare? are you staying away from sweating for a day or two after the treatment and applying witch hazel twice a day for a few days?

I agree with Chuck here. Bryce actually went to my doctor, who is EXTREMELY cautious of everything. He uses high settings on me because I’ve had long discussions with him and he knows I know what I’m talking about. And now that I’ve had results with no adverse side effects at the settings I wanted, he has no problem doing what I ask. However, this is not the case for others. He’s still too cautious with everyone else. That’s why I also already advised Bryce to get treatments elsewhere in LA (Dr Hamilton has been recommended and he has GentleLASE too) on areas besides upper arms and shoulders. He chose not to do it. I should also add that for such a large area, my doctor is expensive and another doctor like Dr Hamilton would probably only charge 1/3 of the cost for the back. Laser works great on chest and abdomen, as well as most of the back, if the hair is coarse. And it makes a lot of sense financially to treat those specific areas with laser first. Upper arms and shoulders should definitely be done by electrolysis. Combining the two methods in this way would be cheapest and fastest way to do take this on. But of course, the decision is in bryce’s hands.

#13

Thank you everyone for the thoughts.

First, with respect to aftercare, I guess I have some things to learn. I do put on an antibacterial (Neosporin or otherwise). I avoid sweating and spa/etc for 24 hours. I don’t use witch hazel or other things. I think the infection came from us lancing an infected ingrown elsewhere on the body about halfway through a session (because it was bugging me) and then proceeding on my back. I think bacteria was passed along the side of the probe.

Second, with respect to modalities, I intend to make an experiment out of myself for the benefit of the community here. I’m going to try two experiments. My right back/shoulder will be done using electrolysis only. I’m keeping a spreadsheet to monitor costs/time. My left back will be done with waxing / electrolysis so as to only be treating hairs that are in early anagen. My front side will be split into electrolysis (perhaps with waxing if that’s found to be superior from the results on the back) vs. laser.

I think I will spend a lot of money. Oh well.

I anticipate having my right back cleared of the thick black stuff by January. I’m doing ~12 hours a month. Of course there will be maintenance but it should get less and less.

Will update more as I experience it!

Bryce

#14

Many people are allergic to the neomycin part in Neosporin. I would not use this product for aftercare. If the probe touches an infected follicle, it should be changed, but if it isn’t, hopefully, at least, the probe and forceps were wiped with disinfectant. Here’s the Neosporin information:

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=504222

Wow, bryce, I think it is impressive that you will be keeping track of your different approaches to tackling your back hair. Our bunny ears will be up waiting to hear what happens. Thanks.

Dee

#15

I’m a social scientist by training, so I just like to make contributions to knowledge. Yeah, good call on the probe sanitization. I think this was the root of the evil and I’m going to avoid it from now on. In my pro’s defense, I have extremely sensitive skin; anything causes irritation, which is 90% of the reason I want the hair gone.

#16

Thought I’d give everyone an update before the new year.

Things are going along slowly. I’ve gone in about 15 hours since my last update. I guess my right shoulder just went through its first growth cycle since the initial clearing (early october) because we’ve had to spend two hours clearing it the last couple times. It’s pretty amazing to me that it only took 5-6 hours to clear again what took 12 hours to clear initially. I can only hope that next time it takes 2-3 hours.

Progress on my right back has been much slower because of the infected follicles. The first case of infection was severe and I just had my pro work on my lower back while the upper back heals. I didn’t have any adverse reaction on the lower back and it’s getting clearer. It’s against the advice I’ve received here, but we have been skipping around a lot because I simply can not tolerate so much pain after 2 hours in one area. I figure that I go so frequently and for such long sessions (4 hours) that it won’t matter too much if we skip around because I will have a clearance (at least of the thick black hair) before too long.

Total cost thus far is around $1500. I expect to have excellent results on my right back and shoulder with healed skin sometime next summer, with a cost of about $3000.

I could post some photos of progress thus far, but I’m so ashamed of my skin quality I won’t. Oof, it’s so ugly with these irritated follicles / scabs. I will say that my right shoulder (the area we worked first) is starting to look normal from a distance. It’s just a matter of time before the rest catches up. I can’t wait until the summer to show you how it turned out.

Have a nice holiday.

B

#17

From another thread, where I didn’t want to get off-topic…

You have a great electrologist, bryce. She sounds like she knows exactly what she is doing and thus, you are getting much desreved results!

Actually, there is a setting for a man’s back and neck hairs that takes one zap with microflash for those deep, very coarse man hairs with root sheaths clear to the follicle opening. The higher quality computerized epilators are equipped to handle these kinds of hairs. Add the automatic sensor function(no foot switch) and one can speedily remove a lot of hair in the course of an hour or two. Add surgical magnification and halogen lighting and the speed factor increases exponetially. Add special technique like your special lady is doing and time to completion is very palatable.

The most skillful electrologists become bigger superstars than they already are when they have the best equipment.

I am so glad to read that you are in good hands. Have you made a comment about her in the electrologist referral forum, (with her permission, of course)?

Dee [/quote]

Not yet, Dee. I’m withholding judgement until after results have had a chance to materialize. But she does seem very fast and I can already see the regrowth on the shoulder slowing down.

She does use a surgical loupe. She uses florescent bulbs right over the area. The epilator is an Apilus Sr. (maybe a II?), and we’ve tried that special setting that senses when to fire, but for reasons I can’t recall, we returned to the foot pedal. I think it was because it would occasionally not fire the way we wanted it to and we’d have to waste a lot of time do a reinsertion. I don’t know much about it. I can’t imagine her going any faster than what we are doing now.

#18

Well, I do like the fact that you are sounding optimistic and cautious at the same time. If you think regrowth and new growth is slowing, then that’s a good benchmark. It appears she has a pretty good setup to get you permanent hair removal. I don’t know what her difficulties might be with not using the auto sensor, but only she can decide what is comfortabale for her and you.

Thanks for commenting, bryce.

Dee

#19

Hmmm, why electrologists don’t use the auto sensor…

Well, for one, many don’t know how to access it and set it up.

Many can’t synchronize their insertions to the countdown of the auto sensor, so that the treatment energy actually takes place in the correct place.

Many are just afraid to try to learn to do any of that stuff.

And don’t forget: Many have machines that can’t do that in the first place.

#20

Auto sensor mode can be intimidating at first. It’s easy to run back to your bunny hole and revert back to the standard foot switch. All I can say, if there are any electrologists reading this, don’t shy away from learning how to use this function (if you have it). It’s very useful. So useful, I can’t begin to tell you where my footswitch is, as I haven’t found the need to use it for years.