A few questions

the person i see for electrolysis tells me that the thermolysis method is not as effective for killing hairs as the blend method which she has been using on me. She also says that thermolysis is much harsher on the skin and will cause my skin to break out and get rashy or even burned etc…

she says that with electrolysis …each hair follicle will have to be treated at least 7 times in the growth phase… that the same hair will grow back after each treatment for about 7 treatments of that hair follicle before that hair follicle stops producing hair. I’ve told her that I’ve read that most treated hair follicles should be done growing hair after the first treatment… and that it may take 2 or 3 treatments for a small percentage of hair follicles (she disagreed with that). Is this true? …is what she’s telling me true?

She tells me that using the blend method would actually be faster to permanently rid my face of hair than the thermolysis method because blend is more effective for killing hairs she says.

I saw her today… and she did a test patch using the thermolysis method before I left. It felt almost exactly the same as the blend method to me… except it was only 1 to 2 seconds per hair (she did some at 1 and some at 2 seconds). It was much faster than with the blend method… but i’m worried my skin might react as bad as she said it does with ‘most people’ (so far it’s fine) … i’m also wondering if i’m not killing the hair follicles as effectively.

I’m likely going to look into getting consultations with other people who do electrolysis in my area. …I hope someone can help clear this up for me

Thank you

I’m no expert, but that doesn’t sound right to me. I’ve never heard of a properly done treatment taking 7 sessions to kill ONE hair if done correctly. Everything I’ve read says hair can be killed in one session up to a few sessions (you never know what phase of growth it’s in before starting the first time).

You may double treat hairs because they are treated in the wrong phase during the very first clearance, and aren’t killed. And you may have to treat some stubborn hairs a few times, but seven times for each and every follicle without exception? That can’t be right, it just can’t be.

Maybe she is phrasing it that way because she doesn’t want you to get discouraged with the next phase of growth, so she’s covering her butt and doesn’t think you’ll understand the actual science behind it?

i’ve made it very clear i’ve been doing my research and she’s made if very clear she doesn’t agree with everything i’m reading from several different sources telling me the same thing… she’s the only one telling me (and pretty clearly) that each and every hair (except really fine hair) will take 7 sessions to kill.

Today I made quite sure that she understood what i meant… and that I understood what she meant.

I’ve been having LHR done by her too… and today she said that the patches of hair that would be left behind after a session are hairs that weren’t in the growth phase… but these patches that were left behind were in odd, unnatural patterns… like a grid. It doesn’t make sense to me that those hairs were ones that weren’t in the growth phase… wouldn’t hairs that weren’t growing be scattered more evenly over my face, rather than in odd unnatural patters? …these were thick dark hairs too. Then after talking about the laser thing a bit she started saying that she can’t overlap with the Alex laser because she would burn me. But she used to use a Yag laser on me and there would be missed patches then too. She used to have me coming in every 3 weeks to get those missed patches done at full price… until I did more research and stopped doing that… but that was only more recently …uuhg.

Ohhh my god, places who can’t overlap well are my biggest enemies right now. If the hair doesn’t shed within about three weeks of laser treatment, it WASN’T treated. She is right that some of that hair won’t be actively growing, and therefore it wasn’t killed, but it should STILL FALL OUT in three weeks. And it left a perfect grid pattern? That’s not a normal growth pattern to my knowledge :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s really smart you stopped going in and paying full price for laser touch ups. It sucks that we empty our entire bank accounts to these people, and they still try to take advantage of us.

If I were you, instead of trying to fight this woman, just find a new electrologist.

We have discussed this issue often here. Some practitioners tell clients that it takes a gazillion treatments to kill one hair, and, or that the treatments make the hairs progressively thinner, and thinner either because they don’t know any better, (that was what they were taught) or because they don’t want to confuse you with the truth (clients have a habit of forgetting, or not believing the truth).

When it comes to electrolysis, one treatment, one time kills a single hair the first time, if it is done correctly. It is possible to kill a hair at any growth phase, but since the technique to make that happen is unnecessarily painful, it is not practiced by the average practitioner. The techniques used by most will kill hairs that are in the anagen growth stage, while having less sure results on the other phases.

The next thing you should understand is that there are growth phases, and they are staggered so that you actually appear to have the same amount of hair all the time, even though your body is shedding hairs every day. It would be unusual if you did NOT see what looks like a rebounding effect in hair growth while doing permanent hair removal. Please check out the growth thread and ask any questions you have after you are done reading this:

As we tell clients here all the time, if you wanted to “try electrolysis” to be sure about how effective it was, you would have to take a before picture, get your treatment, take another picture, THEN WAIT A YEAR, and take an after picture the same day, one year later. This is when the same hair follicles would be in the same phase of growth and thus one would see the effectiveness of the treatment done last year.

What people get confused about, and thus leads to the “thinner and thinner” and the “multiple treatments per hair” stories, is that for what ever reason, people are more likely to believe that, than the simple truth that you either have to do regular electrolysis treatments for 9 to 18 months without gaps, or you will only see reduction that is equal to the amount and timing of your treatments. This is why getting full clearances is so important, as without them, one will spend a lifetime reducing the number of hairs in an area that could have been fully cleared in a shorter space of time.

Well performed thermolysis is no more, nor any less effective than well performed blend, or galvanic. On the other hand, just because someone can do galvanic or blend, doesn’t mean that that person can do good thermolysis. It is sort of like a person who knows how to drive an automatic transmission car, “trying out” a manual transmission (stick shift) car, and reporting that they don’t drive as well, or don’t work, when the truth is that they just don’t know how to work them well, and more practice and education could make them able to drive like Dale Earnhardt. For a look at what thermolysis can do, check out this thread. There are 3 pages worth of conversation and pictures in this LONG thread, but the last page may be enough for you to debunk the “thermolysis is less effective myth.” http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/66432/html#Post66432

As for the patchy left over hairs, in grid pattern from L.A.S.E.R. treatments, That is a fact of life. One doesn’t want to overlap the treatment area too much, as this could lead to overtreatment and risk burning and scarring. Retreating the area with a grid that offsets the previously used pattern is the only option.

Thank you both for your help.

I’m going to see if i can find someone better in my area… I got a bad feeling after talking to her today.

The fact that she keeps saying that it takes 7 times for one hair with thermolysis makes me wonder…why? I know there are a bunch of blend fans who only like to perform blend - but an electrologists education should include all modalities - at least for a basic understanding of the whole profession. Is it because she was taught this? Is it because she was not able to perform good thermolysis?

I think James covered it all - and I do wonder how many electrologists tell people “what they might understand” over what the detailed facts might be!!! I was trained with that piece-meal destruction explanation - an am so grateful that I extended my knowledge base by going to continuing education, bought all the books and networked with other electrologists. Many electrologists get out of school, buy an epilator and never extend their knowledge or equipment from there!

Regarding overlapping: There should NEVER be an obvious grid pattern of growth. It’s lazy or uneducated work. You don’t set the laser so high that it would risk burning that small overlapped area. Either lower the settings or use a YAG. Her excuse for not overlapping with a YAG is lame.

I’m also curious where she comes up with the number 7? From a slot machine? Does each treatment destroy 1/7 of a hair?

Definitely keep consulting. You would do her a kindness if you would give her the link to this site. She needs some refresher courses in both electrolysis and laser.

7 times to eliminate the same hair?
And why not 14 times? Or 21 times?

I have the impression of which it is a number chosen at random. What is clear is that the person who affirms such a barbarity, does not have the most remote idea of what she is saying.
There is demonstrated scientific that in any more than 80 % of the treated follicles an alone time, will never return to appear hair. Be which is the phase in which the follicles have been treated. Be which is the sex, race or age of the person and is which is the modality that the professional uses, termolysis or blend.

Hiya,

Let me get this straight… every single hair should shed after a laser/ electrolysis session? I have about 70% shedding each time I’ve gone for laser… is my lady doing something wrong??

If it doesn’t shed, the laser energy didn’t touch it. If more than 10% of hair doesn’t shed, I’ve learned most places have a policy for a free touch up.

If the missed stuff is in any sort of a pattern (like lines or clumped together), then it will be easier to touch up, and easier to prove it’s a missed spot. 70% shedding is pretty bad results. Only like 20% of hair is killed per treatment (very rough estimate), so if they’re only fully treating 70% of hairs, then you’re getting 14% results instead of 20% results. That difference can really add up.

Regarding electrolyis: There’s no shedding involved in this procedure. Each hair is removed at the moment it is treated. What you walk out of the office with, is what wasn’t treated yet. Ideally, you will get a full clearance each time, though.