4 treatments in, need advice, pics included

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#1

Hi Guys,

I’ve been reading the forums here for a while and have now decided to post myself for some advice and to share results.
I’m a British born ethnically Pakistani male currently having laser hair removal in London. I’ve always been extremely embarrassed and suffered from low self-esteem because I’ve been unfortunate to have both Acne and excess hair so I decided to do something about both. Antibiotics for the Acne and Laser hair removal for the hair.

I am having treatment on my full back, shoulders and upper arms. I’ve paid for 6 treatments and have had 5 of them so far. I will most likely be paying for at least 4 more treatments for a total of 10.

My first 4 sessions were on a Soprano XL laser. It was set at 10 joules and I got ok results. I decided to ask my clinic to switch me to the GentleYag as I’ve read here that it’s better for my skin type (IV - V).

It’s now been exactly 4 weeks since my first GentleYag treatment (5th laser treatment overall). The settings used were 18mm spot size, 20 joules energy and I think 3mm burst. Are these settings high enough for long term results on my type of skin? They said that they would increase the energy to remove the finer hairs later on however I still have some coarse hairs which need to be removed at a lower setting.

I would love advice and feedback on the results (I’m after 90-100% removal but am I being realistic?), the settings being used, and on how to get rid of pepper spots/dead hair that wont come out. I’ve tried ex-foliating, back scrubs, ex-foliating gloves etc buts they just don’t want to move. Any tips would be very appreciated!

I’ve included some pictures of the results I’ve had so far.
You can imagine how hairy I was based on the hair you can see on my chest and lower arms. Excuse the acne scars :slight_smile:
Bear in mind that its only been 4 weeks since I shaved and had a treatment so full regrowth probably hasn’t happened yet.

http://imgur.com/3t6F3
http://imgur.com/2ZaYW
http://imgur.com/lCrzg
http://imgur.com/4DDDA (neck/shoulder)

#2

Are you sure its acne and not folliculitis? What antibiotics are you on?

I don’t know a single person who has had good results with Soprano XL. If you search for Soprano on this forum, you’ll get to read its reviews- Almost all negative.

There is some debate if a smaller(10-12mm) spot size on YAG lasers is better than the l8mm one. I usually suggest people to have at least 30+ Joules on YAG which, however, is not possible on 18mm. And hence I recommend people use 12mm or 15mm spot size with joules in the range of 30-45 -for skin type IV and upto 40J for type V.

Pulse width should ideally be 20ms or less. For thick hair, it is usually 20 ms and for very fine hair, 3ms. I can’t make out how coarse your hair is in those pictures. :frowning:

I hope you have coarse hair on all the areas you are treating as laser is known to INCREASE hair growth if used on areas with fine sparse hair. Especially on our skin type.

Well, have you tried a Riffi mitt? It is usually believed to be superior to other exfoliating gloves. You can also try glycolic acid 10-12% at home- do not use one week before and after the session though. And may be some peels at a good clinic once you are done with laser treatments. They will also help with pigmentation(“scars”).

#3

Hi mumbaigirl. Thanks for your reply and apologies for my late one.

Regarding my spots I think it may actually be folliculitis because I do also have spots on my scalp. My Dr has recently prescribed me different medication (Erythromycin) to use for 2 weeks and if it doesn’t work he’ll be sending me to a dermatologist.

I have an update myself on my hair removal journey and you can add me to the list of people who’ve not had any decent results from the Soprano XL. I’ve just been through a period of 2 months without treatment and am experiencing near full regrowth. I am very demoralized at the moment :frowning:

I have 2 remaining treatments left with this company. I remember them saying to me that some people are ‘non-responders’ and I hope to god this is not the case for me? I would prefer to accept that my lack of results is due to the settings being used and that higher/tweaked settings will give me the results I am looking for.

I have my next treatment this coming Friday and I will force her to change the laser settings. As mentioned before she last used 18mm spot size, 3ms pulse width and 20 joules fluency on the YAG. I will force her to up the settings but do not know what levels to accept. To be honest I think I can handle much higher settings because 20 joules wasn’t really painful. I am however afraid of my skin being burned. What are the chances of this happening if I tell her to use for example 15mm spot size, 3ms pulse width and 34 joules fluency? My hair is quite coarse hair (similar to my arm and chest hair in the pictures).
If she went all the way up to 40 joules or even 45 joules on a 15mm head, 3 mm spot size what are the chances I will be burned. I am prepared to suck up any pain to get the right results but I do not want to be left with scarring from burns.

Many thanks

#4

Another update, I had another laser session yesterday and I raised all my concerns with the technician. She didn’t seem happy I was questioning my treatments. Some of the things we discussed are below:

My Comment: I’ve had near full regrowth.
Her Answer: Unfortunately that can happen. It’s probably hormones to blame.

My Comment: My research has told me that generally people do not have any good results with Soprano XL and that the GentleYag is idea for my skin type (type IV)
Her Answer: We concede the Soprano is rubbish for fine hairs but it works great for coarse hairs. We’ve had people with great results on the Soprano.

My Comment: The GentleYag settings used on me (20 joules/ 18mm/ 3ms pulse) is not an effective setting for me.
Her Answer: It is according to her training. She produced the following document: http://www.scribd.com/doc/408850/Yag-Protocol
If you look at the document it says for skin type IV it says to use max 20 joules on 18mm, max 30 joules on 15mm and max 46 on 12mm. She completely ruled out using 30 joules on an 18mm head on me due to regulations.

At this point I insisted that we up the joules to a much higher one. Kudos to her, she agreed but only if we gradually tried different strengths to see how I would react. I wanted to go quite high (above 30 joules) so I insisted she use the 15mm head. She started off at 24 joules which I barely felt. Then 28 joules which again I barely felt. I started feeling real pain at around 32 joules but as the saying goes ‘no pain no gain’ so I told her to go higher still. My treatment this time around was at the following settings:

15mm head, 38 joules, 3ms pulse width.

It HURT!
This was the first treatment I had where I really felt it and couldn’t concentrate on our conversation due to the pain. I really had to suck it up. I was tightly clenching the bed whilst she treated me. I also had 2 Ibuprofen tablets an hour before the treatment. When I told her this she seemed a little angry. She said that was a bad idea as it would mask the pain and therefore increase her chance of burning me. Had she known before hand she wouldn’t have treated me. When I mentioned that this was the norm and people also used ice packs and numbing cream, she said she’d never heard of this.

So how is my skin right now?
Well I’m not burned thank god. It’s quite red and raised in some areas and doesn’t look pretty. That being said It looks exactly the same as it did for all my previous treatments so I know it’ll have settled down and be back to normal in a few days. So non ill effects :slight_smile:

My next treatment is scheduled for the first week of December (11 weeks away) so I’ll keep you guys updated with my progress. I was thinking that I can could tolerate even higher fluency. Possible 42/44 joules. What is your guys take on this? I have coarse hair on my upper back and shoulders. Clearly visible against when grown.

Fingers crossed I’m now on the right track to being hair free on my back and shoulders.
Any advice on settings or anything I have written above would be greatly appreciated!

#5

I’d be very careful about going outside Candela’s treatment guidelines. The fact that you were already above the guidelines suggests that the settings being used are good enough. Going even higher sounds like the risk of burning is greater than any extra benefit of possibly killing a little more hair. I’d be wary about inducing growth (I know you said your hair is coarse but just how coarse? Is there stubble if you shave the area?)

#6

soprano does not work. crock of shit. tried laser made it worse. If you want at least 80 percent clearance one session of electrolysis with josefa in Malaga Spain, not sure about if she has time available but worth getting in the Que, being Pakistani myself and possibly a similar experience. check out my thread in electrolysis forum.

#7

also for your acne on back. use Sudocrem. oh and just curious but do you use lynx shower gel?

#8

“I usually suggest people to have at least 30+ Joules on YAG which, however, is not possible on 18mm. And hence I recommend people use 12mm or 15mm spot size with joules in the range of 30-45 -for skin type IV and upto 40J for type V.”

I never advised you to try 30J on 18mm. Your skin will not be able to tolerate it!

38J/3ms/15mm is HIGH for your skin. You should not be going above 30J on 15mm and not above 45J on 12mm considering you’re skin type IV. ( As given in Candela’s guidelines) I admit I should have been more clear in the statement I quoted above.

“Pulse width should ideally be 20ms or less. For thick hair, it is usually 20 ms and for very fine hair, 3ms. I can’t make out how coarse your hair is in those pictures.”

Do NOT ignore this advice! If you say your hair is thick, use 20ms or max, 10ms. NOT 3ms.

I’m glad you didn’t experience any ill effects but remember pigmentation issues might show up as late as 3 weeks after treatment. So be careful and don’t overdo the settings! Lower the fluence a bit, 30J or max 32 for your next treatment provided spot size is still 15mm. You may use 38-44J on 12mm BUT NOT on 15mm. And when you move to an altogether different spot size or up the joules drastically, you should have a patch test and ideally wait for 3 weeks to see how the skin responds.

#9

Hi guys,

Thanks for the comments, I wholeheartedly appreciate your feedback and guidance.
I’ve now had 6 laser treatment session and to be honest I am less and less convinced by laser hair removal as an effective hair removal method, an even more so on an ethnic individual like myself. At this point I have decided I will not be buying any more laser sessions but rather be investing in Electrolysis. I will of course keep you all updated on how that goes.

Thanks again!

#10

Hi Geeza01,

I’ve just read your forum thread (several times) and I’m very interested in getting the same treatment you did! :slight_smile:
I will be creating my own thread to gather further information but is it ok if I ask you a few questions too? I have sent you a pm.

Thanks!