This has got to be the most informative post I’ve read yet.
Someone should make this a “major” thread.
I’m surprised that someone hasn’t come up with some sort of chemical to breake the hair down so it can’t reproduce anymore.
I mean, I wouldn’t put Draino on my face but if something like this were to be made it would make $$$.
Since skin, hair, and fingernails are different hardnesses of the same substance, the problem is getting rid of the hair, without obliterating the skin. This is why there is more cause to have hope for genetic solutions, rather than chemical ones.
The difference in depths is another reason why lasers can not be equally effective on the hairs in one area.
Does anybody really know? How about it “Board Certified” Pros.
Lasers are effective for many hair situations. Many people have paid for and received great results. For the ones who haven’t, they should know that a skilled electrologist can handle the job, so it’s not the end of the world if there are some hairs that laser can’t effect. Laser has restrictions on what it can do, but it is certainly a good option for some areas of the body and has made thousands of hairy humans very happy just to get a reduction.
MATRIX … something within which something else originates or develops
a) the intercellular substance in which tissue cells (as of connective tissue) are embedded
b) the thickened epithelium at the base of a fingernail or toenail from which new nail substance develops
c) the area at the base of a hair shaft that protrudes up into the hair bulb and from which live cells are ejected to become hair. The cells are alive when they are ejected and have a nucleus. They die from dehydration and lack of a source of nutrition. Next, they have melanin injected into them as they pass through the melanocyte area (the melanin producing cells). These dead cells become compacted into a hair shaft.
A hair is also keratin as is nails. The papilla is like a tuft of cells that keeps ejecting cells that die because they no longer have a blood supply. As one cell is ejected another below it takes its place (similar to an ovum being ejected from the ovary). The ejected cells can only move in one direction and that is upwards into the follicle as they take the path of least resistance while being pushed from below by healthy young cells (this is a continuous process not exactly the same as a cyclic process in the ovary although hair is also cyclic). As they get pushed away from their nutrition they dehydrate and shrink. As they move upwards they have to pass through the melanocytes. These are the cells that produce melanin. Melanin is injected into the cells that leave the matrix as they are moving upwards into the follicle. If you look at the schematic of the follicle, as suggested by another contributer, you will see a single row of cells along the papilla. After they are ejected from the papilla you will see they are shrinking due to dehydration.
YES. ALMOST CERTAIN… To use your description
YES. The hair in question has to be affected by the correct color light, an adequate period of time for the flash of laser to the hair, a light intense enough to reach the depth where the hair originates ( A certain amount of light is absorbed by most everything it comes in contact with, therefore, there has to be enough laser light at the target depth to do the job).
Yes they are BUT they do not do all the things they are promoted for. Even if the Chinese were doing things with needles for 5000 years they also thought the world was FLAT too.
YOU CAN’T KILL A HAIR BECAUSE IT IS NOT ALIVE TO BEGIN WITH. HAIR CONSISTS OF A SPECIAL TYPE OF PROTEIN CALLED “KERATIN”. IT IS THE ENTIRE UPPER LAYER OF SKIN, ALL YOUR NAILS AND HAIR. IT IS DEAD AND THAT IS WHY IT DOES NOT BLEED OR HURT WHEN YOU CUT IT.
WHEN A HAIR DEVELOPS FROM CELLS ON THE SURFACE OF THE PAPILLA THESE CELLS are alive and have a nucleus. As they are pushed away from the papilla they no longer have a supply of food, consequently, they die and start dehydrating and shriveling up. When they are first cast off the papilla they are young vigorous cells that are plump with water. This is the bulb stage. As they shrink they are pushed upwards into the follicle as they leave the papilla. They have to pass through the layer of melanocytes. These are the cells that make melanin which is the color in the hair, skin and eyes. Melanin is injected into the hair and they now have the color that makes them complete unless they are albino hairs or gray, or blonde, or red, or white and have less or no color than most other hairs. They grow for a certain period which depends on genetics and the location on the body. Hair on fingers and eyebrows is short burt hair on the scalp can grow very long, to the floor in many people. At a rate of about 1/2 inch per month. From the front hairline back to the rear of the scalp and down to the floor can be 6 feet or more. At 1/2 inch per month that is 1 inch per 2 months, 6 feet in 12 years.That is 12 years for one hair in anagen stage. Each area grows for a different amount of time and that varies again for each person. When the papilla is destroyed by electrolysis the tissue heals with scar tissue that is a micro scar below the surface of the skin. Scars have no follicles and not much melanin or none so the skin that has been replaced by scar tissue on the surface can be much lighter in color or have no color. Poor electrolysis or laser work can leave the skin very pale and very obviously scarred. This is not desirable if it is on a surface that is easy to see on the face, particularly around the mouth.
Harvey, my dear friend, could you please kindly take it into account that we on this site are speaking to the laity. As such, the average person on this site has never studied, nor been required to learn the full biology of the structures we speak about, nor do many of them understand the science we argue over.
In many cases, we just have to deal with what is called “speaking to a person on their level.” After all, what good does it do for me to speak of defenestration, when most people here won’t know that I mean thrown out of a window?
This is the same reason electrolysis professionals who know better, give consultations where they talk about how they will need to treat the same hair many, many times before it won’t come back. They know this is untrue, but they also know that a person too simple, or not paying attention will never comprehend the idea of growth cycles and different hairs in different follicles, placed just microns apart, and appearing in an orchestrated pace, such that, it always looks like the same hairs, in the same place, all the time, thus requiring treatments to occure on a schedule timed to hit all the hairs during their period of appearance, and vulnerability.
There is a reason newspapers are written on a 4th to 6th grade reading level you know.
I am asking you as your friend to please be more thoughtful and considerate of your fellow man.
Thank You for your co-operation in this matter.
You cannot KILL a hair because it is DEAD long before you see it above the skin line. Hair has no blood or nerves, therefore, it cannot bleed and it doesn’t hurt whet you cut it. The bulb merely means you got a hair in the growing cycle. You have to disable and/or destroy the papilla to prevent it from producing more cells. If you tweeze a hair in the growing cycle it will continue to grow another hair. The bulb will look juicy but the ability of the follicle to produce a new hair has not been altered. Hair is 100% protein, therefore, there is a very high percentage of protein in the papilla. Lets compare the papilla to a fresh raw egg.
All the clear liquid, 100% of it, in a raw egg is protein. It is one of the best sources of protein that exists in nature. Hair, 100% of it, is a special protein called KERATIN. It is the key component of your nails, skin and hair. If you were to drop a raw egg into a pot of boiling water the egg white will convert to a semi-hard substance which we call HARD BOILED EGG. It is no longer transparent, however, it still is protein. Heat merely changed the liquid to a different consistency. The same thing happens to water if you heat it or freeze it. You change the consistency but it is either steam or ice but it will always be H2O. The same is true for the protein of hair. You can change the consistency from a liquid to a semi-solid. It has to start off as a liquid because it comes from the blood stream and passes through the wall of a cell by OSMOSIS. If it was a solid it could NOT pass through the cell wall. The papilla is made up of millions of cells that are multiplying and growing into mature cells. They get their nourishment from the capillary system that fills the papilla. Growing cells need oxygen and nourishment which they get in the papilla. We now have a huge cluster of rapidly growing cells that are healthy and robust. As they grow they are pushed to the outer layer of the papilla by younger more robust cells and are pushed “out of the way”. When they are out of the papilla there is no way to get nourishment, water, or a way to excrete waste products of metabolism. They are now dying and cease to be healthy and dehydrate. They get smaller and smaller and become compacted more and more as they are pushed out of the papilla and up the follicle because that is the easiest and ONLY way to move. As they move up they look more like the hair they were destined to become.
The BULB is comprised of dead cells that have no blood supply and no nerves but they have not yet become dehydrated so they look like healthy cells but they are already DEAD, no longer have a nucleus, however, they have yet to become completely dehydrated so they look plump and juicy. The ONLY way to stop hair from being produced is to damage or destroy the ability of the papilla to continue to produce new cells. The easiest way is by heat that can be controlled by the operator, however, the operator has to skilled enough to know how much heat is needed and how to deliver it to the correct location. Electrolysis is permanent because it cooks the papilla and destroys the ability of the papilla to continue to produce the cells that would become hair otherwise.
As I explained… You can get a juicy bulb by tweezing, however, that only means you forcibly separated it from the papilla. The bulb is already dying and dehydrating. A juicy bulb merely means the hair is in anagen but the papilla will produce a new hair. The term “root” is a layman’s terminology. There is no “root”. There is an organ called a “papilla” that gives “birth” to the cells that ultimately become a hair. Tweezing does NOT stop the papilla from continuing to replace old cells with new ones, however, the trauma caused by tweezing can stimulate nearby dormant follicles to “wake up” and make a hair that would not be activated by natural phenomena. The redness you see around a traumatized area is INFLAMMATION. Heat, redness, and swelling are symptoms of inflammation. The increase in blood supply to the traumatized area does increase the nutrients to the follicles and this stimulates hair growth.
Is this an adequate explanation?
I hope that is an adequate description of what happens so that it explains what is needed to complete the job.
lefty.gg
The papilla MUST be destroyed or canceled out so a new hair will not begin forming. After waxing it is possible to insert a probe and destroy the hair forming elements at the bottom of the follicle and no more hair will grow from THAT papilla, however, there is something called a “compound follicle”. That is a follicle with2, 3, or more papillas that merge (like a fork in the road where two or three lanes merge into one lane) and send up a single hair through the same follicle but each has its OWN papilla and they are NOT synchronized. If you look hard and long enough, you will see 2 or 3 hairs of different lengths coming from one follicle. Biopsies have demonstrated this but I have never seen more than 2 from one follicle. You have to get the PAPILLA. THAT IS THE ONLY CERTAIN KILL, HOWEVER, CAN YOU PROVE YOU GOT THE PAPILLA WITHOUT WAITING FOR A NEW HAIR TO REACH THE SURFACE? OR…ARE YOU LOOKING AT A HAIR FROM A DIFFERENT PAPILLA THAT SENDS ITS HAIR OUT THROUGH THE SAME FOLLICLE AS ANOTHER PAPILLA ? CONFUSING? YOU BETCHA… SKILL< SKILL< SKILL. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR IT. HAIR REMOVAL IS AN ART NOT A SCIENCE. WE USE SCIENTIFIC METHODS AND FACTS BUT WE ARE STILL PRACTICING AN ART.
DRAINO AND SODIUM HYDROXIDE ARE THE SAME. WE MAKE IT IN VERY SMALL QUANTITIES SO THAT WE CAN CONTROL IT BUT IT IS STILL TOO RISKY AND SLOW FOR MY PATIENTS. SINCE THERMOLYSIS IS THE MOST POPULAR MODALITY IN THE WORLD FOR HAIR REMOVAL… OTHERS MUST THINK LIKE ME. I HAVE ASKED MANY “BLEND” OPERATORS ABOUT THIS. MOST OFTEN THEY SAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS, "I BELIEVE BLEND IS MORE CERTAIN , HOWEVER, IT IS SO SLOW THAT I DO NOT BELIEVE THE PATIENT GETS A FAIR SHAKE WHEN IT COMES TO SPEED. BUT BLEND HAS ITS OWN PROBLEMS BESIDES BEING SLOW. PAIN FROM THE NAOH PLUS THE POSSIBILITY OF SCARRING IS GREATER. ALL MODES OF HAIR REMOVAL HAVE SOME DOWN SIDE AND SOME PLUS SIDE. I BELIEVE IF YOU TELL THE PATIENT WHAT IS GOING ON THEY WILL TELL YOU THEY WANT. SPEED IS FIRST.
Sigh… Yes, thank you.
Is it absolutely necessary to make 3 posts in a row? If you have to post, especially in all caps, can you put it in one post? Or learn to use the “edit” button. Jesus.
The act of coagulating the papilla is one process. Hair is comprised of 100% of a special type of protein. It is called “keratin” and makes up your hair, nails, and the upper layer of the skin. The hair itself is dead as is ALL keratin. It does not bleed when it is cut and there is no pain when it is cut. There is no blood IN the hair and NO NERVES in a hair to transmit pain when it is cut. The pain you feel when you pull on it is due to the fact the hair is connected to the wall of the follicle which is alive and has nerves to transmit the pain.
The papilla protrudes up into the base of the follicle. Here is where the cells are growing that will eventually be pushed out of the papilla. When this happens the cells no longer are connected to the papilla, consequently, they have no blood supply to provide nourisment and oxygen to support life. These cells die and shrink due to dehydration and become compacted to become a hair. The bulb is comrised of newly dead cells. The only live area is the papilla that produces hair on a cylic basis. The depth of each follicle varies. You may be able to determine the depth of the follicle but you really have to FEEL for it as they all differ as to their depth.
When you look at a raw onion they are covered with layers of fine tissue-like material that once was live cells and they were produced in the center and pushed outward exactly the same as the papilla does to its cells. The onion also grows a green leaf and has roots. Papillas do not have a root. They stay secured to the body but do grow cyclicly as do most plants and flowers. Roots of a plant are sent DOWN from the main plant or seed or bulb but blood and nutrients come up to the follicle from below via the blood supply.
Coagulation is the act of converting the liquid of blood and lymph to a semi-soft solid in the immediate area we treat. Like converting egg white liquid to a white semi-soft opaque solid by heating it. It will coagulate when heated by electricity, boiling water or whatever. It is the heat that does the work we merely introduce the probe to the depth we need the area and control the amount of heat and the length of time and intensity with our machine. The machine delivers a radio frequency controlled by the government, FCC, and all machine deliver a frequency of 13.5 megahertz or 2 x that or 3 x that. There is no difference which frequency is used.
The process is similar to your micro wave device. The water in the area treated gets hot but if you lay the probe directly on your fingernail and turn the machine up to its limit nothing will happen because there is no water in your nails. In microwaves the water gets hot but there is no water to heat up the plastic or ceramic dish so the food cooks and the plate stays cool. If the plate gets warm that is because of conduction of heat from the warm fluid in the dish or cup that heats the adjacent wall of the cup or sides of the dish. The whole process takes a split second because we are treating only a very small amount of water at the tip of the probe not like the microwave that is cooking an entire dish full of whatever…
No energy leaves the probe along the sides. Only the tip of the probe gets “hot”. The amount is so small and for so short a time period that the patient can tolerate it. This enables us to treat ONLY the area at the tip of the probe, consequently, a very small pin point area is treated and this makes the insertion of the probe of paramount importance. Proper instruction, knowledge of the epilator and experience is needed to make proper insertions. There is no other excuse.
In the “blend” we have a completely different method. We manufacture “lye” at the bottom of the follicle along the entire length of the probe that is under the skin. Lye is the same stuff as “DRAINO”.This is a strong chemical used to dissolve hair in your plumbing. It is extremely powerful and when it comes in contact with skin or hair it burns everything it comes in contact with except a few things like rubber. Patients feel a sting that continues to burn when the probe is withdrawn until the chemical action is spent.The skin around the insertion point can get scarred if the current is left on too long as there will be more lye formed in the follicle that will overflow the follicle to the skin. Here again the operator has to control the device so that too much lye is not manufactured. You can not retrieve it. You just have to wait until the chemical action stops.
Due to to the fact you have to wait for the chemical to be used up it takes more time per hair than does the high frequency heat method. Both are effective in the hands of competent operators. High frequency is the most popular method used in the entire world.
THE STUFF FROM HERE ON WAS REWRITTEN BUT I COULD NOT ERASE IT AND IT WAS TOO MUCH TO DO OVER. IT IS MOSTLY REPETICIOUS
I keep reading the same questions by different people, therefore, a more exact description was needed or the same question would not have come up over and over. I did not use this site for a year and the same questions keep coming up. Evidently, the inquirers did not understand what went before or they are new to this site and want help. I am sorry if the caps bothered you. I am a hunt and peck typist and this is a lot of work for me. Was the explanation accurate? That is what I wanted to do. I had no time to go back and rewrite most of it because it is slow for me. The fact that it was in caps was an accident (typo) that I did not redo. Sorry but I will redo them when that happens.
People keep asking the same questions because they are new and want quick answers, or they don’t know how to search the site, or are too lazy to search the site and find the answer to the question. There is little that this site has not answered already, but the catch 22 is that only someone who has been here a while would know that, and how to find those answers without asking the question for the 2,000th time.
You can not KILL HAIR because it is NOT ALIVE. Hair is the residue of what used to be live cells. The source of the new cells has to be killed so they do not continue to reproduce. Lye is only one method and that is a chemical reaction. It works but many electrologists feel it is too slow for large areas. Heat is the most popular method and fastest. Lasers work by heat but there are still lots of problems with them because of the small pattern. In order to get all of it you have to overlap areas and that is too agressive. Patients are in a hurry so they will try anything. My competition is the emotions of the patient NOT the method.It is difficult to reach the patient. When I try to explain it they are only interested in starting. I can not do that until I am sure they know what I do and how I intend to do it.
People seeking electrolysis are hardly listening during the consultation. You just do it so that you can say that you have done it (and so those who really ARE paying attention can get the benefit from it). Then while you are actually working on them in the days and months to come, you keep retelling them all the same information over and over and over while they are a captive audience. Eventually some of it sinks in.
I don’t know how many clients have accused me of having NEVER told them about how caffeine use causes more pain during treatments. This is laughable, as it is something I tell them on the phone prior to our first meeting, and again during the consultation, and again during treatments, where I explain how that works. (And still they show up to my office sucking down Coke, Mountain Dew, StarBuck’s and so on just to make sure that it is having its maximum effect while I am working on them.)
Many could not care less about what we want to teach them, untill something comes up that they actually want to know.
Lefty loves to discuss symantics. Consumers don’t care about them! They just want the hair gone. If you’re actually working on clients as your handle suggest, I would think you know that.