Photodynamic Therapy (PDT) research

Controversial & Unproven Methods Restricted: Genetic Therapy, X-Ray, Photodynamic
#4

Decades ago, Jules Shapiro (electrologist), was a proponent of Photo Dynamic Therapy. He lost interest, because it didn’t work. Now, let’s examine these two statements for the article on PDT:

“We collected skin biopsy specimens and investigated post-PDT histologic changes and molecular changes … Our results suggest that PDT can damage the nonpigmented hair matrix, but not stem cells or dermal papillae.”

Ugh, the scientists always “go for” a skin biopsy. Instead they should see if the technique actually removes hairs (by count). The “skin biopsy” was used extensively during the “electronic tweezer” scam. The biopsy showed the ET worked … but, as we all know now, it was (and is) a total scam…

The last sentence saying that “stem cells and papillae are not damaged,” is the end of this discussion. If you can’t destroy these key target areas, you cannot have permanent hair removal … period!

Indeed, people are always looking for the “super modern” quick fix … when the OLD tried-and-true electrolysis continues on-and-on. If you want real guaranteed hair removal, you are going to have to do the “grunt work” … sweat it out … and have electrolysis. There is no “free lunch” or easy quick solution … at least not yet.

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#5

Your English is excellent …

#6

Good Lord … this “suggestion” is an outrage. Even adding this to a list of hair removal methods is dangerous. The only statement EVER about removing hairs in this surgical manner is … NEVER!

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#7

I know about F.U.E on my own body. Had a hair transplatation on September 13. I also had beard hair removed from my upper lip /lower lip/chin and the back of my head on my own body. These areas are still slightly painful and partially numb. I have on the day of the operation, so after. Heavily bled, I know about the risks. Also that it can leave micro scars etc.

Also they removed just each 3-4 hair on facial hairs, not all. Because you know , if they would do it , like all . It leave scars .
At least some hairs are Away . But yes i guess , its no option to seriously remove hairs.

Even in Most cases, F.U.E would be trash anyway

#8

YES! Very true indeed. A very bad process.

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#9

Your English is Good , dont worry about it.

But if its a Problem to find a Professional Electrologist in China.

You could let import a Machine like this from UK,Germany,Australia/USA /Italy maybe Thailand or Russia . I buyed my Machine EMG Gold EPIL Blend from Ebay Kleinanzeigen (used). Was 9 Months used , getted 60 Needles + Needle spray to make it steril for 750 euro .

Ebay Kleinanzeigen here is something like , you want just to sell something fast private.

#10

Thank you for your reply Bono. Indeed, the first paper says that, but is was more focussed on non-pigmented hair.

The second paper (from 2013) concludes: “Low power CW He:Ne laser and methylene blue (MB) offered a very successful PDT system in the present study in selective destructing the hair follicle, leaving an intact epidermis. The current methylene blue (MB)-(CW) He-Ne PDT system results was confirmed using pathological examination and showed that this technique is a safe and appears to provide a long lasting action.”

And: “The current PDT system provides better outcome than hair destruction through
laser heat transfer procedures and laser-mediated hair removal, due to complete destruction of hair
follicles.”.

Maybe I am just keeping my hopes up, but this looks very promising.
Also on a note, I thought that the destruction of a hair follicle would mean that it would be gone forever, but it seems that is not the case.

#11

You could try something if its a Option for you, at least to try it .

its from Wikihow.com

  1. Eat a healthy diet and exercise to lose weight and decrease body hair. A healthy diet and regular exercise can help you lose weight, which can lower your androgen levels, which lead to excessive body hair. Eat a balanced diet and try to exercise for at least 30 minutes at least three to four days a week to lose weight in a healthy way.

Talk to your doctor before you suddenly change your diet and lifestyle to make sure it’s safe for you.
Focus on eating lean protein sources like chicken and tofu, whole grains, and lots of fruits and vegetables.
Avoid processed foods and sugary drinks like soda.

2.2
Drink peppermint tea to reduce hair growth. Studies have shown that consuming peppermint tea can lower the amount of androgens in your body. These hormones can cause your excessive body hair. Get peppermint tea or fresh mint leaves, let them steep in a cup (240 ml) of water for three to five minutes, then strain the leaves. [2]

Drink the peppermint tea once or twice a day to see if it reduces hair growth.
  1. Eat more soy products to reduce the growth of body hair. Soy contains phytoestrogens that act like estrogens in your body. [3] Excessive body hair can occur when you have too little estrogen. Consuming soy products like edamame, soy milk, or soy burgers can help increase your estrogen levels.

Try eating a soy product with at least one of your daily meals.

  1. If you are female, then take a contraceptive to reduce the amount of androgen. Oral contraceptives, also known as the pill, have been shown to reduce the growth of body hair. The estrogen counteracts the androgens in your body. The latter can lead to excessive body hair. If you’re not taking a pill, talk to your doctor about a prescription. [4]

  2. Talk to your doctor about anti-androgen medications. These decrease the amount of the hormone androgen in your body, which can cause less facial and body hair to grow. Talk to your doctor about taking these medications to find out if they are safe and can work for you. [5]

    If you’re a transgender woman, talk to your doctor to see if anti-androgen medications can help decrease your body hair. He can determine the best options for you.

.
6. Use vitamin D supplements to reduce body hair. Studies show that taking up to 50,000 IU of vitamin D every two weeks can help decrease body hair. Talk to your doctor about taking vitamin D to make sure it’s safe for you. Follow the dosage indication on the package to avoid side effects. [6]

Side effects of vitamin D supplements include muscle weakness, confusion, extreme thirst, nausea and fatigue.
Vitamin D can also affect your blood sugar levels. So be sure to talk to your doctor before taking it, especially if you have diabetes.

.
7.
Try lowering your androgen levels with peony additives. Peonies are used in traditional Chinese medicine and can decrease the amount of androgens that can lead to excessive body hair in your body. The amount of peony you take depends on your age, health, and other conditions. Therefore, you should talk to your doctor before taking it. [7

You can find peony additives in the health food store and on the Internet. Discuss with your doctor which dose is right for you.

  1. Apply an eflornithine cream to prevent the hair from growing. Eflornithine is a drug used to slow hair growth by blocking the production of natural enzymes in the skin that stimulate hair growth. This effect can cause the hair to grow more slowly and the remaining hair to become lighter and thinner. As long as you continue to use the cream, you can reduce hair growth on the body. [17]

Eflornithine cream costs about 60 euros (30 grams) and must be prescribed by the doctor.
Side effects of eflornithine cream include redness, rash, headache and burning or itchy skin.

How i sayed its from wikihow

#12

In my opinion, this is going nowhere. 1) no cream can be forced down into the follicle, 2) these studies rely on biopsy which is silly, 3) the tests are never long enough to ascertain if the hairs “all grew back.”

Here’s the key: " … pathological examination and showed that this technique is a safe and APPEARS to provide a long lasting action.” I’ve read hundreds of these studies and their conclusions are always like that. Remember, researchers are PAID by companies to do these tests, so the outcome always sounds like this …

Some years ago the plastic surgeon I worked with was paid $25,000 to test a new drug called “Botox.” There were a few actual test cases, but most “test patients” were FAKE. The doctor wrote a glowing report on the drug and didn’t actually do anything. I also stopped working for this surgeon. However, this “fake study” nonsense is fairly common in the industry. Notice that the report is NOT SPECIFIC … “appears to provide a long lasting action.”

You know what, PLUCKING OUT THE HAIRS also appears to provide a long lasting result. Just because somebody is a physician or a scientist does not mean they are pure in their studies. Read everything with skepticism. There were also glowing studies on the effects of lobotomy, regression therapy (psychology), radium therapy, electric shock therapy, Thalidomide … and countless other remedies that were going to change everything.

#13

Thank you for taking the time to write a clear explanation Bono.

I am no expert, but I find it hard to believe that no drug can reach the hair follicle. Take eflornithine for example, and there are other studies which show that methylene blue with the aid of liposomes can reach the hair folicle itself (although in hairless rats).

But if it was sure that this PDT approach was something promising, someone would probably already have tried it.

It’s also sad to hear that those fake studies are quite common in practice, makes objective research a lot harder…

#14

It’s all about selectivity. Take a look at my video on this subject …
https://electrologynow.com/hair-creams-dont-work/

#15

@Bono

Wanted to write you Private about this Video, so its better.

Im Maybe Wrong, but in Your Video is a Little Mistake , i think.

From Minute 2:25 to 3:12 Minute.

That Electrolysis Destroy the Papilla and Stemcells is Right.

But Laser so far , i know from Video like this (from 2 pass clinic) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pm92zOAjhQo&t=6s

Laser uses the melanin of the hair as a conductor to get to the papilla and destroy it. But it can’t reach the stem cells, according to the 2 pass video. That’s why in months or years, the hair can grow back with laser. That’s why laser is not permanent, so forever. But only temporarily for months-years. So the stem cells (I think) let the hair grow back at some point. As I said, maybe I’m wrong.

#16

Yeah, I think you’re wrong. thousands and thousands of actual laser treatments illustrate that on the right patient, and right body part, permanent results can be achieved. And, stem cells are treated by the laser. I’m a dedicated electrolysis provider ONLY … but yes, laser hair removal is not only temporary.

Oh the incorrect information on the 2Pass video: laser does not ONLY target pigment cells “at the base of the follicle.” Instead, laser targets the entire (dark pigmented) hair itself. Consider that the “cells at the base of the follicle” are injecting pigment into the hair itself. That’s why you have hairs that are colored!

The laser doesn’t care which cell it’s zapping … it goes for the darkest elements … including the hair itself. I wish I could say negative things about the laser … but I can’t … it is mainstream and a valid treatment option.

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#17

Yes , i readed something like this or thought something like this.

I mean by Laser Studio Websites. They write on the Webseite over the Years Regenerate 20-30% Arround of the Lasered Hairs . Thats why peoples need usual 2-3 Sessions more , to stay hairfree again.After the hairs came back.

Also Heared from a Guy , a Youtuber he Used a Braun IPL(Home Machine) once on Belly Area and is on this Part since Years Hair free. Normaly you (not you…but brands…companys…peoples).say by Home Machines you are Hairfree Kinda 6 Months (if it work). I have a IPL Machine at home and it was Money Burning. Worked Maybe for 10 Hairs of thousands (by legs/arms/belly/chest). I used it1 Year .All 2 weeks like on the User Manual they sayed. And it doesnt worked for me.

Also Have on Facial hairs with Diodlaser +Alexandritlaser , that Hair growth Back on Throat/arround the Mouth. Happily i have my EMG EPI GOLD machine, to remove them. But it dont Grow all Back, feeled maybe 50%.

i can imagine that the chance is High/Very High, it work Permanently ,i mean Laser. By Areas where the hairs are not so deep in the skin like for Example : Nose/Ear Hairs or Hand /Finger hairs.

#18

Thank you for your reply. If I want to buy an electrolytic equipment from abroad, what channel should I go through? I have never shopped internationally. It seems that it is difficult to find someone who sells electrolytic equipment here.

#19

You are Welcome

You could try this : https://www.complexions.co.uk/electrolysis-machines/

Its from UK , they sell Used/refreshed Electrolysis Machines also Laser.

Or the Other Option you have, but cost some more , i did once here in forum a Thread , you can also Buy New Electrolysis Machines from the Brands directly. But machines with Blend/Thermolysis/Galvanic cost 1000 USD/EURO+ . Also you will have maybe Extra taxes by Import .

Here you can check out this companies , maybe you like something : https://hairtell.com/forum/t/electrolysis-machines-seller-in-europe-2022/55720

You could also Check Ebay in China /Russia/Thailand /UK/USA and so far. You will find maybe also something

in Germany where i buyed my Machine is here :https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-nadelepilation/k0

But not sure they send from Germany to asia /america and so far.

Thats all websites i know.

Also i do Electrolysis on Myself.

But let me tell you from my Own Experience. That you need Extra Equipment , depends on Area .

I Have 100% Eye Strength, i see Perfectly.

For my Full Face, i use MOSTLY Just a LED LAMP (1200 LUMEN WARM WHITE), and i use a Normal Mirror , No Maginication Mirror , and i go close to the Mirror like <30 cm. Even for Nose Hairs /Ear Hairs , its enough like this. Also for Belly/Chest /Arms/legs, i dont need for that a Maginfication Mirror/Lamp.

But it depends also , by some Areas even with Best Eyes , you need Extra tools. I lasered my Facial hairs by Doctor . Hairs come Mostly Back. I have on my cheeks/throat , very fine black/white hairs you dont see in a normal Mirror. I use for this a 7x Maginifcation Mirror , for me more As Enough.if you need tools like this , you should go in a Store , where you can get for example a Maginification Mirror. I was in a Drogery DM Store had choice between 5x ,7x,10x,15x . 7x was Perfectly , 10 and 15 x too much for me. But you must check for yourself, what works best for you.

By Hand Hairs i remove them too, like fingers , i have sometimes very fine even grey hairs. You see them very bad or just in right angle with Light. Its by this also better have a Maginication Lamp for the table like 10x.

Also you need K2/K3 or F2/F3 Needles , this K/F means just for the size for the needle holder. Some needle are on the lower end thicker or thinner. But the needle is Same thick.

i have here 0,075,mm(K3/F3) and 0,055mm (K2)needles , it exist some more thick one. But for my Full Body the 0,075 mm dont work, its too thick even if i open my pores. Go inside but, its little painful.

you must try it out.

Also you must do your Own experience. Also you should check out Bonos Youtube Channel (electrolysis now ) i think ,or look on Youtube for revuya hair or Electrolysis or Read something about it, at least you should Have some Basisc Knownledge , that you know what you do.

#20

Wonder if you saw my Reddit post/comments, because the main goal for that was just to make people aware of it, talk with their dermatologist or possibly other doctors, but definitely dermatologist since this is their field, and see if we can’t reignite the study, because it does seem plausible. Maybe best results would be to remove the hair first so that the device (laser or IPL) would solely react with the medicine and the surrounding tissue, cuz I truly believe the only way to do topical targeted treatments, since Something Like A Pill is unlikely to happen, would be to cause scarring tissue to form where the hair papilla is; that’s where the cells cluster and form new hair and if that was damaged with scarring tissue on top you could not grow any new hair.

#21

Problem is, you cannot rub any medicine or potion of any kind “down into the follicle.” The first laser to hit the market was “Thermolase” and they would wax the hair out, and rub in a lotion containing [black] carbon. The technique was a total failure (nice idea though) because the cream could NOT be rubbed into the evacuated follicle. Impossible!

I think I mentioned the work by Jules (Julius) Shapiro …perhaps his work is online. Bottom line … it didn’t work. PDT works nicely for diseases of the skin that are in the upper layers and when the diseased tissue absorbs the chemical … A form of this exists called, I believe, “blue light therapy” for pre-cancers. However, it’s still not as good as the “old fashioned” Fluorouracil.

Check it out: ThermoLase – HairFacts | Hair Removal Information

#22

Maybe you can’t ‘rub it down into the follicle’, but different studies have shown that a PDT solution could accumulate in the hair follicle. I found a study (also on this forum) where there product (SL017) was found to localize in the hair follicle: Quest PharmaTech Inc. Announces Positive Phase I Clinical Trial Results For Cosmetic Hair Removal Application | BioSpace

#23

I must have read 100 studies like this. Notice that the date is June 20, 2006. So, what happened during the last 16-years. Ready for market? Frankly, studies like this are interesting, but they are also created to stimulate stock prices.
Here’s the deal. IF and WHEN such a product is found to work, you won’t have to search the internet for “studies.” The story will be all over the news and in every health & beauty magazine in the world. Nobody is going to keep this a secret.