Permanent Laser Hair Removal + Guarantee?

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
#21

Carpet I think you just sound bitter since your treatment didn’t work so you’re not thinking logically.

How can you possibly guarantee something like this? You can’t treat an area then a year later be able to tell which hairs are new growth and which are ones that may have come back from the laser not working. They would look identical so it’s no different at all.

I think what you’re forgetting is that laser can’t treat 100% of all hairs on all types. If it could it would be different. Meaning, if I did 6 treatments on my underarms, and then I was 100% hair free at the end, and then a year down the road 50 or so hairs are back, then sure you could pretty much safely say you were hair free for a year, so therefore this is new growth and wouldn’t count towards the guarantee. Or, same scenario, but 5 months after your last treatment you get those hairs back, you would know that it probably wasn’t new growth.

The issue is that even if you look at a body part which LOOKS all dark and coarse, you have to remember there’s still fine hairs mixed in and also lighter blonde hairs mixed in. That’s the reason it’s permanent hair reduction not removal, since yes it will get rid of the dark hair but you’d have to do electrolysis to get those finer hairs.

Again I think you’re just bitter that your treatments didn’t work since I don’t really know what else to tell you. There’s way too many variables involved when treating a person’s body. It’s not like buying a fish or a plant where they can say if it dies in under a year we’ll give you a free one.

There’s virtually no way a year or two after your treatments end to tell if hair is new growth or hair coming back from the laser not working. Put it this way, like others have said, sure clinics can offer a lifetime guarantee, but you’re going to pay for that. You can’t honestly expect to pay a decent price for treatments, knowing that you can get many more later for free.

#22

You keep missing the most important point (I think you’re so angry, that you don’t see the logic being explained to you). It’s not possible to guarantee because it’s not possible for you to prove or for the clinic to tell whether the hair “regrew” or whether it’s completely NEW hair that the body developed.

The hair all looks the same and the clinic is not responsible for NEW hair that grew. Laser or any other method can only treat follicles that are active DURING the treatments - they’re only responsible for killing THAT hair. No method can disable follicles before they become active.

I’ll repeat - the “money back guarantee” you want should only apply if the hair “regrew”, right?. Well, it’s not possible to prove that the hair you see “regrew”. “New” hair and hair that “regrew” looks the same. Until someone figures out a way to tell which is which, it’s a pointless argument.

#23

My arguments apply whether you mean a money-back guarantee or free future treatments. Read them again.

You are paying for them to kill the currently visible hairs that qualify for laser (dark, coarse ones). If they killed the CURRENT qualifying hairs (regardless of what new hair grows in years later), then they did their job and earned every cent. They should not refund you. Again: You have not paid them to kill future hairs, so why would they refund you for failing to kill future hairs? They would not! That was never part of the deal!

That’s like saying you paid the orthodontist to straighten your teeth, but then years later your Wisdom Teeth grow in and they are crooked so you go back and blame the orthodontist for “failing” to permanently straighten ALL your teeth. He treated the teeth available at the time, and cannot be held responsible for any new teeth you developed later in life!!

Or like getting liposuction and it successfully removes the fat for years, but in the future you gain NEW fat from poor eating habits or a thyroid disorder and you suddenly blame the plastic surgeon because he only treated the fat you currently had, and did not time travel into the future to treat the fat you will acquire long after he successfully treated you.

That is just an unreasonable expectation. You’re upset, so I will assume that you aren’t an illogical person normally, but just too upset about the situation to think clearly. I don’t blame you for being emotional (I’d be a wreck if I developed new hair after spending so much money to be hair free!)

#24

Great examples Kitty, I was trying to think of ones earlier but was blank!!!

#25

LAgirl: It seems you have given up on your question/issue dodging techniques in favor of an argumentum ad hominem strategy. Probably not worth trying to explain logic to me as I’ve studied it thoroughly.

#26

Then I don’t think its worth anyone arguing with you, because you’re obviously not open to logic, having studied it thoroughly and found out that logic sucks, because it means you’re wrong. :slight_smile:

#27

No one here has a strategy. Everyone’s trying to explain the same thing to you and you refuse to try to understand basic logic of the issue. There is no right or wrong here. Of course, being angry at the world and refusing to accept any other possibilities is much easier. None of us have a stake in LHR or in your treatments. We’re consumers who got treatments just like you and help out others. If you’re looking for someone to blame, this probably isn’t the place.

#28

LAgirl: (repeated) argumentum ad hominem statements do not add any strength to your argument. No, I’m not angry, I’m just expressing my story for the benefit of anyone considering trying laser hair removal. Everyone should know that they can’t expect to have a certain abount of hair on their bodies a few years after their last treatment. You seem extremely confident in attributing my new hair growth to hair that I would have had without laser. This is why it puzzles me as to why electrolysis could possibly be a better solution. Knowing how complicated the science is in this field, I’m skeptical about the dormant follicles/new hair growth explaination. It doesn’t really make a difference WHY someone has hair (be it your dormant follicles becoming active or lack of complete death of a follicle). If someone has hair on their treated areas, the effect laser wasn’t permanent. OK you can get into semantics and say it was permanent and these are just new hairs. Just look, what I don’t want to have happen is to allow someone to gain the same false expectation as I did. So we need to be very careful about explaining just what we mean by “permanent”. In summary, we need to explain that one could have just as much hair a few years after treatments as they do before they have any. And not just people with abnormal hormone levels or some strange condition.

#29

Have you ever looked up the FDA’s definition of “permanent hair reduction”? They are fairly clear about what it entails. If a consumer DOESN’T bother to find out what it means before they have the treatment, then they can’t hold anyone responsible, because it does clearly state what the FDA is claiming, and what laser clinics are claiming (no laser clinic will tell you that you will have a 100% hair removal guarantee) - permanent hair reduction.

#30

I haven’t had any treatments in 3-4 years depending on the area and I have zero “regrowth”. Zero. There are others on the forum who post that they haven’t had any growth in 8+ years. What is the difference between my and their hair follicles and your hair follicles? If hair is being treated in the same way and on my body it’s not regrowing and on yours it is, the issue is something in your body and not the laser. It CAN be the result of laser IF you saw all that hair back within 6 months after your last treatment. You stated that you didn’t. If hair was only stunned, it would also have showed up again within 6-12 months. All of it, not a part of it.

I didn’t recommend electrolysis to you as an alternative. If your body is still continuing to develop hair, you’ll still need touchups after you are “done” with electrolysis too because neither laser or electrolysis can kill hair that hasn’t yet developed.

I also never suggested any “strange” conditions for your hair growth. You had all that hair before any treatments. It developed due to something. Whatever that was is still causing new hair to develop, “strange” or not. That was my point.

#31

Nobody suggested that electrolysis would kill future growth better than laser. You are just misinterpreting. It was offered as an alternative in case the laser didn’t work because you were not a candidate for laser in the first place. In other words, if you are right and this is the same hair, then electrolysis would kill it.

Then it was pointed out that your clinic is a good one, and would not have treated you if you were not a candidate, so the new assumption is that you were treated properly, and thus the hair is NEW. In this case, electrolysis is only an option to kill current hair, not future hair.

Nobody ever implied otherwise.

#32

I have extremely light skin, and very dark thick body hair. That’s what makes someone a candidate.

Exactly what do you think the conditions are to make someone a “candidate” for laser hair removal?

You said that electrolysis is 100% effective directly after reading my whole story which included details about about how there was not full regrowth 1 year later, but how now 6 years later there is. You went something along the lines of:

This sounds a lot like suggestion, or someting indicating electrolysis is a better option in my case. But if your whole “it was NEW hair” theory stands, this suggestion doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense.

#33

I don’t understand the problem. According to you you got new hair, which at the time of treatment wasn’t there. As said before you can’t treat unborn hair.
Maybe we should make a stop, do you understand that fact? You can’t treat unborn hair.

#34

Yes, I’ve looked at the FDA’s definition. I’m not a newbie to laser hair removal “theory”. I was on consumerbeware during 2003-2004 to “educate” myself and make a decision about getting laser hair removal. Anyway, the FDA’s wording is controversial. It doesn’t even make any sense to consider it different than electrolysis, based on everyone’s theory here about how it functions. Yet the FDA says that electrolysis is “Permanent Hair Removal”. If Laser kills individual hair roots like electrolysis does, than the results on individual hairs are just as permanent. Everyone here talks about laser’s permanency in terms of INDIVIDUAL HAIRS. Looking at my body, it would be ridiculous to claim that I had permanent hair removal, yet other posters here have claimed I must have had it, only for the fact that they think I am growing “new hair”. Whether it is new hair or not is irrelevant to a consumer who is wondering about the permanency of laser. A typical consumer just wants to know whether or now they will still have hair on their treated areas years down the road.

#35

Carpet, there is a way of knowing if the laser hair removed permanently from your back, in the past.
A good quality photo show if you’re wrong… or not.

#36

You originally mentioned you had dark hairs on light skin, but you didn’t mention how thick they were until I asked (very very important). After I asked, you claimed the hairs were as thick as a normal man’s hair (which is usually NOT thick enough, that is the whole point why we recommend not treating your back area). Even if they were as thick as armpit hairs, they may not have been DENSE enough. Also, the areas you treated are risky for inducing NEW growth (as I mentioned). Many many variables.

Also, many laser centers undertreat the hair or miss patches on accident. So I didn’t know yet if you just had bad treatments. This DOES NOT sound like what your center did, but I didn’t know that at the time, so I was trying to suggest alternatives.

So yeah, given all the variables, including the “mysterious” reasons you think laser didn’t work, then I recommended something that would make you feel more at ease that it would work. This way, if any new hair grew back, there would be no doubt that it is NEW, and you could no longer wonder if it is the same old hair.

You can’t use my good-natured suggestion as an attack against me. You are mad at laser, and unable to be convinced that laser works, so instead of arguing with you and forcing the issue, I was trying to recommend an alternative. Instead you use it as ammunition. Why make suggestions and have an open discussion to help you if you are going to be mean about it at every turn?

#37

Being a good candidate is not just having dark hair. The hair has to be dark AND coarse. If the hair is not coarse enough, laser won’t work.

Either way, the point is moot. You had hair growth that was caused by something. You had it treated. Then you had a hairfree period for over 1 year. Then more hair grew in due to the same thing that caused your original hair to grow. You associate this hair with laser not working. We’re suggesting that laser worked fine and that you have new growth. No method can treat hair before it starts growing on the body.

#38

The fact that you needed 10 treatments though signals to me that something wasn’t working. I’ve had only 3 so far on my underarms, with my last one being almost 3 months ago. I’m not done obviously, but right now the amount of hair I have to treat is literally maybe 20 hairs on my left underarms and 10 on my right, you can’t even notice them and it’s been 3 weeks which is far longer than what you normally would have to wait.

My forearms are the same situation, 3 sessions been 3 weeks since last one since I did it same time as underarms. I’d say there’s been a 50-60% reduction in just 3 sessions. I can’t honestly imagine needing any more than 6!

#39

I agree edokid. I always say to people that it is my opinion that if it’s going to work, you won’t need more than 6 treatments for about 80-90% reduction. The rest is best finished off with electrolysis as it will definitely work (doesn’t care about the kind of hair) and also probably with much less money spent that subsequent laser treatments.