Your best bet is to find someone who will do marathon sessions, and has some speed. I have found that I am usually able to clear a back in 12 hours spread out over two days, but you might need more or less depending on what you have going on.
For what you are looking to do, a little travel would not a bad thing, as you might get more of what you want, and have it done much more quickly.
hairy87:
Each practitioner is different in that they choose to have different tools, different speed, different strategies. Each client is different in that they have different hair structure and patterns of growth and different tolerance levels and are not always steady and loyal to a treatment plan.
Here’s what I can tell from my side of the fence.
Using the fastest form of electrolysis, microflash thermolysis with the biggest probe possible for treating the hair structure, I have completed a man’s full back, shoulders and upper arms with very dense, very coarse hair in 41 treatments from July 7, 2006 to September 6, 2007. He had 84 hours of thermolysis averaging 6 hours per month. Total spent over 14 months has been $4,086 or $292 per month, or about $48 per hour. I gave him a price break because he is consistent with his treatments, shows up on time, and didn’t drain my energy by being impatient and inconsistent. He was realistic concerning the effort needed (he drove from out of town) and time side of things and now he has achieved his goal of clear, smooth skin in 14 months. It’s beautiful.
This is what I can do and no way reflects what a consumer should expect from another practitioner, especially if they use a slower form of electrolysis. Another electrologist may move faster than me and vice versa???
These are difficult questions to answer, but we try our best to give you examples expecting you to understand that this may or may not apply to your situation. All I can do is re-emphasize that true permanent hair removal is highly possible and highly satisfying with electrolysis, something many sources say is not realistic. They are wrong.
This particular client did not want to gamble that he could have stimulated hair growth or be left with a lot of smaller, lighter hairs after laser, so that’s why he went for the perfect hair killer, microflash themolysis. All needs to be correctly done for these kind of results. It is not easy and it is not cheap, but it works for those that realize they will see the light of success in a matter of months - not years. The practitioner needs to deliver the goods with aggessivness and not be intimidated by large areas. It may be hard to find a good practitioner. That’s really the tough part depending on where you live, but be as positive as you can if you decide to go on a search.
Dee
Just to give a realistic expectations, if your back is as hairy as mine, I’ve thus far had over 70 hours on my back and still haven’t received initial clearence (granted that some of those hours were surely spent on picking up regrowth), including 12 hours with James Walker. So keep in mind, depending on the density, even with very fast electrologists, you may be looking at 40-50+ hours just for initial clearence. And we haven’t even gotten to my lower back or shoulders/upper arms yet.
I get the feeling this journey is going to be a lot longer and a lot more expensive than I had imagined based on my impression after reading these forums. perhaps my hair condition is far worse than the “very dense, very course” hair of the man that dfahey treated.
Well, allow me to speak with more detail about this.
My guy’s back, shoulders and upper arms looked like a black fuzzy carpet from the neck to belt line. It was loaded with very dense and very coarse hair. I hope you get the picture. I don’t know what your electrologist does for you, that’s why I painstakenly and carefully pointed out the differences that can affect timely permanent hair removal on a large area like the back. It is realistic to do this much faster than what you are experiencing, but that all depends on who is doing it. I bet if you had stayed with James Walker for the whole course of treatment, you would have had total control in about 80 hours FOR REAL. I don’t know what your situation is and I know nothing about your electrologist’s abilities or equipment. The keys to success within the time frame I mentioned are exceptionally and without doubt a reality. Many electrologists can do this, but unfortunately we’re not at the 100% mark yet in our profession.
Dee
perhaps…but i’d say in the 12 hours i’ve done with james, he got 20-25% of the hairs that were originally present on my back. So that would mean 50-60 hours would be needed for the initial clearence… and at that rate, I just don’t see how 80 hours would suffice.
how many hours did it take you to get your guy to initial clearence?
Since I’m near his chart I can tell you.
First clearance was in month nine or 3-1-07 to be exact. Hours to full clearance: 55. However, those 55 hours included going over already treated areas (upper arms, shoulders, back) to maintain or keep the skin clear from any new hair or regrowth. James would maintain any treated area as well. If a full clearance was the only thing one did initially, then new hair coming into phase would be ignored and one would miss the precious opportunity to kill growing hair. We don’t want that to happen, so that’s why we clear and maintain an area constantly. If you were to lay on the table for a marathon session, then it would take anywhere from 12 - 20 hours to get a full first clearance on the back, but that’s not what most people choose to do. Keep that 55 hours in perspective, is what I’m saying here because it includes the maintenance part as well. So, to get on with this, we then spent the next five months alone just maintaining whatever hair would pop through, ON ALL AREAS, which totals about 29 hours.
He had a lot of hair and there’s not much to treat anymore. He’s happy, very happy. When he gets back from an overseas trip in December, then he wants to do some refining on the upper arms where he has tattoo’s, which will be a piece of cake compared to what we have behind us.
I have never said this was easy, but I have said with all honesty that this is what can be done with all reality if all ingredients that make permanent removal of large areas are in place. The determination of the client is the most important ingredient, but very close to that is the determination of the electrologist who invests in the best and most modern tools available today to speed this process along. I know I sound redundant about all this when I post on hairtell, but I mean to, because IT DOES WORKS! I don’t think 14 months and $4,000-$5,000 is a big sacrifice to obtain permanent, assured freedom from a densely populated hairy back. Keep your eye on the big picture.
I’m talking numbers with microflash only now! Slower methods will take you home as well, but it will take longer and cost more.
Thanks hairyboy,
Dee
then what i am looking for is a total marathon clearance with thermolysis for my back(including **tt) and front up to my neck(for now). then it will be a lot easier… damn. now the only problem is to find a good practitioner with a good technology and willing to do a marathon session. maybe those who offers help to transgenders would do something like this in here but i dont know. i am going to a dermatologist this week. hope he suggests a good place. from the looks of things, the sessions for my arms and maybe abdomen area will not take ages and i dont think that i will need a lot of sessions, my arm has about 100 hairs left after laser and my abdomen… well the hair is hard to notice.at least i can see my skin and especially my belly button clearly. my back and shoulders will kill me, thats a fact but i am up to it if i am to get good results. thanks to you all especially dfarey and james.
I wouldn’t trust dermatologists for electrologist recommendations. they’re very far removed from even knowing anything about hair removal. this forum is a lot more helpful. if you can fly to texas, you can go to Electrology 3000 for a few days and have 2 people work on you a the same time. Read posts by Chuck who just did this. You can also go to James for a few days and just have him clear you, even if it takes 5 days. It depends on your committment.
Well, I’ll tell you one thing: the hours quoted by lagirl, James, etc. are NOT typical. They have the technology and the skill. It’s one of the reasons why I considered to get work done by James (just not feasible for me at the moment). If you were getting work done by James I would go back to him if it is at all feasible.
My practitioner certainly has the skill and experience, but perhaps not the speed. I believe the reason why she may not have the speed is because she doesn’t use the new computerized technology available (In fact, nobody in my area does). But my practitioner is probably one of the best, if not the best in the business in my area. That is why I go to her. I can’t say I’m disappointed with my treatments. I’m fully aware that it may taker longer, but that’s just the way it is.
80hrs to completely finish the entire back, shoulders and upper arms is a bit wishful thinking imo. There are not gonna be too many practitioners out there that can pull that off. I’m not saying it’s impossible, just rare.
I’ve had a little over 30 hours done myself. I’ve cleared about half my back I’d say (maybe a little less). According to my practitioner I haven’t had too much regrowth either. In her words “we are winning”. Which is true I suppose.
My suggestion to you is find somebody who has experience and skill above all else. Speed is important too, but you have to be patient and resilient when it comes to this. Find someone good, stick to a schedule and you will win.
Good luck.
You know the funny thing M_D I have received treatments with manual thermolysis and comp micro flash, and the treatments w/ manual thermolysis hit more hairs per session. This not to say micro flash isn’t faster but in both very capable hands this is what I have seen. Are you just hitting dark terminal hairs, or terminal hairs and lighter hairs? I’ve noticed upper back and shoulders have a bunch of lighter longer hairs after the thick ones are removed.
I have been a little busy with keeping up with killing a million hairs a year. It seems that Hairyboy has lost sight of the fact that what we DID do together was remove over 7,000 hairs in about 14 hours worth of treatment time spread out over two days and there is a large bare area that equals or exceeds the space of his lungs. Given more time, we would reach first clearance.
For many people 7,000 hairs is more hair than they have on their back, but as I pointed out to you in person, you have the equivelent of a beard covering your entire body from what I got to see. Can it be removed? Yes. Will the numbers resemble most other people? No Way Man! Not at a minimum of 75 hairs per square centimeter from waist through shoulders, up into the hair line, and down the arms.
It is sort of like when Michael Jackson’s album Bad was called a flop for ONLY selling 3 million copies in its first year. (this was long before twits like N*Sync and Backstreet Boys could blow out 7 million just for sneazing out a reunion album) I have failed at my usual 12 hour full first clearance on a back here, however, this is like no back I have ever treated before.
See you soon.
James, I haven’t lost sight of that fact… in fact, i’m very pleased with the work you have done. just pointing out to others that it is possible to have hair dense enough where 12 or even 24 or more hours wouldn’t be enough for full first clearence.
Prior to visiting you, I was under the impression based on your post which mentioned you never failed to clear a back in 12 hours and Dee’s posts of her extremely hairy client, that I would fall into those categories and be able to achieve clearence in 12, and probably be done in around 75. But I don’t fall into those numbers, and I am not blaming anyone for it, again, just letting other potentially extremely hairy clients know that certain time frames may not be a reality for them, even with very fast electrologists.
I am sure that you did not intend for it to seem this way, but many people contacted me to say that they felt your post suggested that you received less than great service.
As for work rates and completion times, we tell everyone that the number of hours to get anything done always is variable based on number of hairs in the treatment area, potential speed of the work done by the practitioner doing the work, and the regularity of the treatments. Based on this, we get to understand how identical twins getting work done by different practitioners will have different treatment times, while one person working with two different electrologists would get a different work rate from each practitioner.
Yes, it is possible to have any number of hours be the magic number for the combination of your treatment area, and your particular practitioner.
For that then, I am sorry, and hope my last post clarifies what I was trying to say. And for those that are reading this, and for the record, hands down, james provided first rate service and i’ll gladly go to him again, and will be going to him soon.
I would have never thought doing a man’s back was possible when I was an electrolysis student, or even when I first started practice several years ago. Not that I couldn’t do it with blend or manual thermolysis, meaning, slow thermolysis over a second or more per hair. However, when I was introduced to computerized epilators with no footswitch to bother with, working on large areas certainly can be accomplished. The easy part is actually pacing along quickley and the hard part is the puting in the time up front.
I can only imagine how the client feels about being the recipient of repeated sessions and having to pay for a sensation that doesn’t feel so comfortable at times. So, I feel for you men, but I also like to smile with you as well when you are hairfree in the end. The best part of this business is watching personalities change from bleakness, to hope, to extreme joy in the end. Same goes for women with hair on their face, by the way.
Even though my guy was hairy, I have seen hairier men then he. When I initially give these testosterone bountiful men the lowdown on what it would take to get them to successful hair removal, they may decide to try laser IF the hair and skin are the right colors. Those that are not good candidates for laser, just accept the fact that they have more than a lot of hair on their backs and resort back to temporary measures or do nothing at all.
It’s a hard game to play. The hardest part about an internet forum on hair removal, pertaining to the electrolysis part, is trying to focus on the time to completion part for individuals. That’s why all the variables involved are spouted out from time to time. That’s why I use specific client examples only, so one can see what may be possible in their case, urging caution at the same time, because I can’t see them and I’m not privey to other facts.
Hairboy, I understand what you were trying to communicate to others about the time factor, same with you M_D. I don’t quite agree with caligant about the manual thermolysis verses the microflash comment, but maybe I’m not understanding what his point is about manual thermolysis hitting more hairs per session?? You’ll have to clue me in on that one 
Dee
Well Dee, I guess I was a little vague, but I’m having trouble finding someone as fast as yourself or James. I have sampled several electrologists in Orange County and San Diego, yet none that I have been to are really fast. The statement about the manual thermolysis and micro flash was just that the micro flash that I received from overly qualified electrologists was much slower, and I’m not even sure why. The insertion was very slow, almost like they are taking time to think about the next insertion and a lot of fidgeting, I dunno hard to describe. While with manual thermolysis the electro just banged out hair after hair with out a single delay. So as a consumer it’s very confusing. I know for a fact that micro flash is the fastest modality but I was just trying to let M_D know not to beat himself up over finding a micro flash if it wasn’t available.
I would say that the type of thermolysis is not the culprit, but rather the vision and lighting instumentation used. When an electrologist is having trouble seeing the follicle, the insertions get a little more tentative.
Caliagent, I’m thinking that perhaps these electrologists are more familiar with what they usually do and might be testing the microflash option. They may not be comfortable with this form of thermolysis yet so they are being extra cautious as it does takes more focus for sure. I’m sure they will “get it” very soon and will be flying far and fast,that is, if I’m guessing correctly about your comments.
I appreciate your explaining that to me.
Dee
there are recommendations for electrologists in SD from Mantaray and several others on this forum. have you tried a search?
a recent poster is also getting good treatments in Long Beach.
Thanks Caliagent.
Ya, from my inquiries people keep telling me that practitioner skill is the number one thing to take into account. So I’m not that concerned about not having micro flash available to me.
For your information Caliagent the stuff on my back is pretty much all of the finer stuff. Just a lot of it. We’ve been making decent progress though.
Another 3hrs completed on my left side. My right side is looking better and better. Not seeing much regrowth right now. We’ll see what happens as the weeks turn into months.