dfahey,
no i had no idea of this paradoxical effect going into it, had i known i would have absolutely avoided it!!
Somehow i think even if the companys making these machines or the people approving them were aware of it, i dont think they would disclose it as there is too much money to be made…just my opinion as somebody suffering.
I didn´t have any idea either! None told me things could be worse after the treatment taken. They vaguely said to me that “since the low beard is an area with high hormonal influx, the treatment might not be a succesful one”.
I´m aware that in USA it´s an issue that makes (false) “PERMANENT HAIR REMOVAL” claims suitable for suing the ones who advertise laser that way. Saddly, in Spain that kind of legal stuff takes years to get solved in either way, and it´s not affordable for common people.
I just want that Electrolysis does its best and I hope to see good results within months…to get rid of my paranoia about things getting worse and ending up being like a rainforest monkey.
I´ve read in http://electrolysisinformation.com/faqs.htm “Some experts feel that the stimulation can cause a few surrounding follicles to grow hair. This has not been scientifically proven.”
That´s the tiny spark I need to keep the fire of my paranoia alive.
They should know about such events by now. Laser has been on the scene since 1996 (available to consumers). It is hard to hide such things because of the internet. Individuals feel helpless when this happens because they have no idea how many other people had the same outcome. The long time top contributors here on hairtell and on other hair sites know this very well. We see people come and go with their sad stories. The patterns are clear by now.
Clinics that do mention this paradoxical laser hair stimulation MAY tell you it could be a gamble, but there are some things that they can do to minimize that gamble. They may even be able to clean it up with laser. Is there a consumer agency in Australia where problems can be reported? If there is, a pattern of complaints will raise their rabbit ears causing them to be on high alert and then, they may investigate. Your local television station may have a consumer advocacy arm that may want to investigate and report to the people they serve. Clinics will listen to consumers when such action is taken. People hearing such, may encourage others to come forth who are in the same situation you find yourself in. If there is critical mass, other action may result. The best thing that could result from this, is a warning for consumers that some areas are prone to laser induced hair stimulation. Just tell people and let them decide.
This was just posted: http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/79237/My_1st_electrolysis_appt_advic.html#Post79237
This is what I am talking about. We get these posts all the time. This woman should have had electrolysis from the beginning. I don’t like laser for female facial hair. The only good thing about it is, it keeps me busy, but that is not the way I like to earn money.
Electrolysis removes about 5-10 hairs per minute. Whatever you see is only about 30% of all the hair you actually have due to hair cycles. Some hairs will be killed on the first zap, some may need retreatment. The way to do this is to start aggressively and go for long treatments up front to get a clearance on the area. Then you go in every 3-4 weeks to kill any new hair that shows up. It will take about 12 months of treatments after your first clearance to be done.
HVYMTL, I’m sure Christine can kill more than 10 hairs per minute with her Ferrari, (or should I say Red Bull?) Apilus Platinum. 
She has a system called Multiplex with which you can fly.
At the beginning of September I started with a 20 year old client. The right side of his chest and was treated once. We used about five hours and half. Do you want to see?
SEPTEMBER 2010:
OCTOBER 2010:
Oh I forgot. You need to spend 3 times in the same area, if you wait long enough for the hairs that were in phase shedding appear at the surface of the skin. For example, the case of this guy:
He shaved the area late last August. It because their hair is very thick most of the hairs are in growth phase (anagen phase), some smaller caliber hairs were in the resting phase (telogen phase), they were too short to be treated. The frequency of the sessions were one hour a week (sometimes 90 minutes).
The strategy we have designed is to return to this area in November, we have calculated that it takes about 2 hours and a half. Return to the area for the third time in the month of March and will need one hour or one hour and a half. Nothing before the summer. Here the sun has no mercy as in Australia. I’m sure that in October 2011, minutes will be enough to finish the treatment.
Woaw, that´s super furry (we know he´s in good hands) for a 20 years old guy, Josefa. You have another challenge to deal with.
Did you read what I´ve quoted from http://electrolysisinformation.com/faqs.htm ?
If so, anything to say about? Your wisdom and long term experience are highly appreciated and such an statement from that website, deserves either be backed up or rejected with data in some ways
Oh dear Spanish, you put me in a little trouble. Question the wisdom of the teacher Mr Gior is an unpleasant subject. I feel a deep admiration for this man.
I agree to all the statements written on that page, except for one:
" A hair treated in the telogen, or resting stage, will probably not be affected by electrology treatment".
Concerning paragraph of your choice:
“Some experts feel that the stimulation can cause a few surrounding follicles to grow hair. This has not been scientifically proven.”
Does not say Mr. Gior is the nature of the experts point to the possibility of stimulation of the follicles surrounding. It is possible that these experts are dermatologists. Why this hypothesis has not been proved? today, it would be very easy with the high precision of the cameras.
The hair follicle is the most studied organ in the entire history of medicine. Large sums of money were spent to find a cure for baldness. You think that if there is a possibility of applying current to stimulate the follicles in one out of 10 follicles that had not been studied in depth? I know a dozen candidates to be presented volunteers for the experiment. For example the guy in the photo above, with 20 years and he is a little bald!
Moreover, you can use logic. Tissue damage produced by electrolysis is similar to obtaining donor hair in hair transplant treatment. There is a stimulation in the follicles surrounding?
Well, that´s a point, Josefa, but regarding that laser actually can stimulate hair growth on the body but can´t stimulate on the scalp, we would be at the starting line over again.
To be fair, the point of yours that makes me agree with you, is that nowadats would be so easy to observe whether electrolysis does increase hair growth
You know from previous conversation by MP, that that´s my big concern.
Hi everyone,
just letting you know i couldnt stand to look at the hair anymore and needed a quick relief so i waxed my torso today, and for now feel a tad better… Ive also stopped using minoxidil so we will see how that goes.
I took a couple of snaps lastnight of the hair, but how do i post them?
Yes, Spanish. I know how much you care about the issue of stimulation.
But a little reflection. An expert like Mr. Gior who has devoted over 40 years of Electrology and published a book on the subject. An expert such as Mr. James W. Walker, who is considered one of the best electrologists the world. Another expert as Mr. M. Bono, the author (in my opinion) the best book of Electrology in the world. In addition to thousands of anonymous electrologists all over the world since the late nineteenth century.
If none of them have seen this phenomenon in the millions of customers who have treated. Do not you think this is the best proof that we have?
That guy in the photos above would get great results with laser. Less time and money than electrolysis in that case because his hair is so dense and coarse.
Yes, it is likely that he is a great candidate for the laser. But he has chosen a safe path. However, I will pass him your recommendation. Thanks for the advice.
This is true, with the laser, he would spend less time on the couch, but with the electrolysis he finished with 90% of hair in less than 12 months. (Will be a pleasure, show the photos in September 2011)
As for the money, the electrolysis with Apilus Platinum Multiplex (36 hairs per minute) cost the same as 8 sessions of alexandrite laser.
How many hours is he going to be on the table in total? What will that cost be?
He’d need to go for an hour treatment once every 2 months. After 6-8 good treatments, he’d have a 95% reduction. That’s 6-8 hours total spread out over 12 months or so costing around $1200-1600.
No LAgirl, here, each laser session would cost 300 or 400 euros. The area he wants to eliminate extends from the neck to below the navel.
How much do you estimate in electrolysis costs? How many hours of electrolysis?
About 40 hours. About 2400 euros.
(Maybe less, I usually give a discount to my good clients, especially when they work hard to earn the salary).
That sounds a low estimate for an average electrologist, not to say that you personally can’t do it that face. Bryce on this forum has been getting half of his back done for a while and it took a lot more hours than that (estimate in the 200 hour range I believe).
I still think 6 hours on the table over the course of a year is better than 40 hours even if it’s that few hours and the cost would be similar (in the US, it would be cheaper).
Josefas’ skill greatly exceeds the average electrologist,and there is no doubt, that a skiled practitioner saves their client a fortune in time and money.
If you treat the right type of hair, it won’t get worse. This is only an issue when treating something that shouldn’t be treated in the first place.
HVYML, it would probably benefit you to start an electrolysis thread on the electrolysis portion of this forum. It’s impossible to give you total estimates, but you can estimate things yourself by counting approximately how many hairs you have to treat. If things are done correctly, the hair is zapped and killed the first time around, as long as it’s in anagen phase of growth. But you can’t forget that hair grows in cycles, so you basically need to go for long treatments at the start to clear the area. Then you come in every 3 weeks or so to clear any new hairs that popped up. It takes abotu 12-18 months of treatments after the first clearance to finish.
