Im back..and so happy!

Actually, the way that LAgirl’s statement read, I believe that most readers would take the meaning to be “Electrolysis is an unproven commodity that can’t stand up to the approval process that LASER has been put through.” I, for one, expect someone like her to know enough to avoid making statements that can be misconstrued in that way, if such is not the meaning she wants to convey. The fact that the “Electrolysis was grandfathered in by the FDA, and has no proof it works” line is a stock and trade propaganda piece from the LASER industry that has been used like MLB’s constant tag line “America’s Pastime” even as stats show that more Americans Pass Time with figure skating and NASCAR for the past 20 years or more. I believe figures showed American Football past baseball in the 70’s or 80’s.

We expect that LAgirl knows what Dee posted, and we also expect that she knows that electrolysis was around for nearly 50 years already before the FDA was even chartered, and that by the time it expanded to even cover electrolysis machines the practice of electrolysis had been around for 110 years. Did they have studies to show it worked by then? Yes, they did. Did they spend government money commissioning new studies on it? No, they did not. What they did do in 1976 is take action against X-ray hair removal, a practice that had been exposed as lethal in the late 1940’s and 1950’s, and while the government HAD banned shoe store X-ray machines in the 1950’s, they never got around to taking such strong action against X-Ray hair removal practices, and instead left it up to the practitioner’s ability to get their machines repaired to thin out and eventually eliminate the business. The last X-ray hair removal machine left service in Ohio, in 1976 when the owner could no longer find anyone willing to service it alongside their medical X-ray machines from doctor’s offices.

That’s how I took it. It did seem strange to me to hear these words from LAgirl when I know her stance on such matters pertaining to electrolysis.

James, I don’t think people know that you had laser performed on your neck area years ago.

I really did spend some time searching the FDA home site and looking for information, Im not that search savvy and could not find much information.

I think its odd when you do a permanent hair removal search laser is what pops up, or creams, or epilators!

My mother in law has done laser removal on her cheek for a birth mark. The same as you would do for a tattoo. Is it similar to the hair removal type? Coz she went from a dark dark brown birth mark to a light pink one, over the course of ten years. What did that do to her skin to achieve that?? I suppose I can ask her.

Anyways I have electro tomorrow and cant wait to get another much and well deserved clearance! the left side of my jaw under my ear lobe still has a lot of fine light brown hairs which ive gotten use to they are soft and i rub them when ineed comfort, me and my OCD…LOL, I however will not miss them!

Dee and James I love your passion! It is a breath of fresh air when ppl stand up for what they do and are passionate about the services they provide!

(i did not know that electro first was used to permanently YES permanenty remove eye lashes that were growing crooked and imparing ppls vision…i only read this on some site tho and i guess it could be false. Made me see how word of mouth is so critical coz its hard to obtian fat from fiction)

Keep on keepin on and have a marvelous sunday! Sunny and no wind here in nor cal and Im about to go to the beach and find me some beautiful shells and aggets, after this coffee and waking the teenagers! WOOHOO!

This is fact:

Dr. Charles E. Michel, a St. Louis ophthamologist, reported in 1875, ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY-FIVE YEARS AGO, the results of his use of galvanic electrolysis on his patients suffering from ingrown eyelashes. He actually started work on this in 1869, so we could say electrolysis is 141 years old. He said:

[color:#009900]" I will now describe my present method. The agent employed is electricity, ( a constant current battery of 8 to 20 medium sized cells is all-sufficient)the form, electrolysis. I simply pass a fine, gilt needle into the hair follicle and allow the current to produce the electro-chemical decomposition of it and its papilla…I now complete the circuit by means of my foot interrupter and allow the electrolytic action to go on until I plainly perceive a slight frothing up around the stem of the needle, when I at once interrupt the current."[/color]

Around the same time, there were some St.Louis dermatologists that were also performing galvanic electrolysis, but they gave Charles Michel the credit for the discovery. All in all, with my present source, I count about 30 physicians and some non-physicians being owed credit from 1869 onward, for researching and publishing their findings on electrolysis for permanent hair removal. There are scores of others that were involved with gathering data and reporting information beyond those thirty. I can list them if anyone is interested.

Why does the FDA not list these people with their articles? I don’t know. I guess 73 years ago in 1937, when the FDA was established, electrolysis had already been around for 68 years! We had a plethora of articles about electrolysis being used for superfluous hair, worldwide, and it may have been something as simple as a big collective “DUH!” with everyone aware that electrolysis works and it is permanent! So, it was not felt that all these articles had to be listed about the efficacy of a process that was much older than this new federal agency. The obvious had already been established. Ipso Facto! Latin for the facts speaks for itself or something close to that.

Dee

vibe, the only reason the FDA only approves laser for “permanent reduction” is because no one is willing to put in the money to do unbiased controlled studies. It’s expensive. Studies have been done, but by laser manufacturers themselves. Also, FDA doesn’t say that it’s NOT permanent. All they say is that not ALL hair will be removed (which is valid since laser can’t remove fine hair). Here’s a direct quote, obviously pointing to the fact that the FDA believes lasers DO provide permanent results:

“although laser treatments with these devices will permanently reduce the total number of body hairs, they will not result in a permanent removal of all hair”

Most of the electrolysis studies listed had nothing to do with testing for permanency. Most were testing for other things. There is no indication on the FDA website that any of the above were used to decide permanency. In fact, I can’t find anything on the FDA website regarding electrolysis being approved for permanent removal at all.

Bottom line is that electrologists need to stop using that line - “FDA said electrolysis is permanent and laser is not”. It’s simply a misleading statement, used to bash laser. That’s the frustrating part.

As you all know, I advocate both methods and I don’t need a study or FDA to tell me that either is permanent since my results have been permanent fo 3+ years now from both methods.

This is getting tiring. (although, methinks that is the point)

First of all, people who have ingrown eyelashes end up with infections, scratched corneas, and eventually, blindness. The point is that the peer review process was all about reporting and proving that it worked. If it had not, the peer review process would have been about reporting how their patients still went blind after receiving the treatments.

Another fine tuning of understanding is that the FDA did not have electrolysis under its office when it first began. It has never been its job to study electrolysis. It has only studied electrolysis at all, in conjunction with the LASER industry’s desire to have LASER called Electrolysis, in the same way that Thermolysis got the FTC to rule that it was essentially the same thing. They declined this request, stating that LASER was NOT equal to Electrolysis. That was where the FDA said that Electrolysis was Permanent, and LASER could only lay claim to “permanent hair reduction” or “Stable Hair Reduction”

Lastly, in case LAgirl wants to say that she forgot, yes, I have had LASER treatments, and Dee has seen the permanent result I got from that. (reminds me of a football, only darker)

Oh, and I have had more than one treatment from different well respected people in the industry. Sooooo, I guess I am not eliminated from commenting on the issue by your criteria. Don’t worry, I am sure you will forget this fact again soon.

As some one who knows that electrolysis is permanent by her own admission, don’t you find it misleading to insinuate that it is not?

I have never heard about your laser treatments. I’d love to discuss. Can you provide information about them? What machine? What settings? Who did it? What was their experience level? Did you see shedding? How many treatments did you have? Spaced how far apart? Without this information, it’s really impossible to judge laser as a whole. Just like it would be impossible to judge electrolysis as a whole if someone only said they had 5 years of treatments and eveything grew back. And we know we see those posts here often.

The bolded quote above clearly states that the FDA fully admits that laser provides permanent results, studies or not studies. “Reduction” is basically semantics to make people understand that not every single hair will be removed, which is fair since laser can’t remove fine hair.

All I was trying to do here was check in with you all about how my electro is going for ME! I seem to generate controversy often…lol

When you live and raise three teens there is bound to be controversy…right…but alas I brewed some up here some how…

Well off to early bed as I have 8 hours of work tomorrow 1 hour of electro and two hours of baseball…

I was thinking about these posts today and thinking…by god the ppl replying are REAL…they go to the beach and have breakfast at buffets with their family and watch movies and pamper there gardens…and lay on the couch and their sweethearts rub their feet if they are as blessed as me.

SO anyways…ill keep posting here on how my treatments are going…Ill give you all an update tomorrow!

Vibe1Luv~ Peace Bets

Yes, let’s not forget that vibe came back to report on her excellent electrolysis results and we salute and bow to you, vibe for checking in. We look forward to more of vibe’s story.

We are a lively bunch and our debating skills are sharp :/.

So last week I ended up with horrible sinus stuff and I missed my treatment =( I did not want to shave as I have not done it in so long I was worried what it would do to my psyche! So I used the eyebrow trimmer and shortened those hairs up! I hated it, when they started coming back in they were so prickley! I was happy by day three because the othgrowth was soft.
I went in today in the midst of some rare and beautiful tropical like storm! I was kind of scared as my sinuses are still hurting bad and i get this post nasal drip then cough. I warned Terry and she wore a mask, she does not do that everytime. But I got a full clearance in less then an hour. So I have gone from one maybe two sessions per week from an hour to even three! To being able to get a full clearance in an hour after missing a week! YAY!
And i do not even need to numb my upper lip anymore coz it is just a straggley hair here and there!
I found something AWESOME today that helped my nerves so much. I had a very rough day at work, and have had teenagers around me at home non stop 24/7 for the entire weekend so I am a bit rattled, and i work for child welfare services which can be stressful to put it lightly! So anyways… i grabbed some silly puddy on my way out the door and messed with it the whole time i was layin on the table! Talk about a release. I was able to use it like a stress ball and just really honestly todays treatment was like nothing!
I need one of those stress balls! It will make the next year or so much more tolerable not only at my appts but hey at work too!

Happy Monday almost Tuesday to all…
And happy hair removal!