Brenton,
There is no other way for me to feel secure about my hair without laser. I did electrolysis for several years without any results. If I stopped doing laser on my arms and face, I would probably become depressed because there is no other way for me to get rid of the hair. Like I said, I tried waxing on these areas, but the skin reaction was bad. Laser is the only way for me right now, so I am not wasting my time and money.
C O’Connell,
I had been doing electrolysis for several years on these areas before laser without any results. It just came back. It is not worth that risk for me to do that again. Plus, electrolysis took away so much time of my life, as the skin reaction took days to subside, and I could not do the things I wanted to do. I am not a fan of electrolysis.
I understand, but please reconsider visiting with an electrologist. If you share your location, I’m sure we’ll be able to find you someone with good enough skill that we can guarantee your hair will be gone for good
norcal, you are not the first who is using Laser as a temporary hair removal technique in the same way people go for waxing. I’ve known many women who have done and are doing the same.
But the point is, it is supposed to be permanent and I imagine it costs a good deal more than going for a wax.
There are a couple of things you need to understand, Laser is not destroying your hair and in this case, probably neither the follicles that produce the hairs. It is just causing the hair to shed. After shedding, you should have a few weeks of being hair free before the next lot of anagen (growing) follicles start showing their hair. If you were trying to achieve permanent results, we would recommend waiting about 8 weeks between facial appointments. Yes, a considerable amount of hair will appear in this period (after the hair free phase) - that is the point. If the hairs are not present, the follicles cannot be treated.
In terms of whether or not it has made any difference, there is no way you can tell unless you leave the area alone for at least 3, but really more like 6 months. A 4 to 6 week break tells you absolutely nothing about whether it has made any difference or whether you actually have more hair now or not.
Electrolysis didn’t work for you before but if you find the right electrologist, it can change your life. You need to educate yourself on what electrolysis actually is, and how to find a skilled practitioner. There are a lot of threads about but few with female facial results - please see the link in my sig which I will be updating very soon with new photos.
To be perfectly blunt, your knowledge about Laser is minimal and if you were to go about electrolysis in the same way, it’s no wonder you achieved no results.
Which country are you living in?
And, there it is … electrolysis not working. And yes, the “victim” is correct. Just like those that say, “Laser didn’t work,” the person is saying (in this case very well said) that “it” didn’t work for her. (We all know why it didn’t work too … a stinking rotten operator!)
What’s needed?
A simple straightforward booklet … FREE of course … that will outline all the stuff that is so eloquently stated on Hairtell but deeply buried and requires a ridiculous amount of “digging.” Who wants to dig through old threads? Not me.
This booklet would be modality (etc.) neutral and contain elements that every electrologist agrees with. The publication would be free and could appear on everybody’s website … (even the AEA’s, if they can ever get their “2,000 COMMITTEES” to agree on anything! he he he).
I’ll do the writing and the electrolysis part (with input from everybody of course). Anybody want to do the laser part? HELLO OUT THERE …. LASER PLEASE! I will only do this if the people involved will agree that this will be a FREE publication not directed to any operator or company … (PDF download and free). Think: for the patient ONLY!
If you don’t “like me” that’s okay too … I CAN work with people that don’t like me! I do it all the time and I have a very BAD memory when it comes to “people not liking me!” (Remember, Eisenhower, Patton and Montgomery didn’t like each other at all … but, they cooperated and won the war!)
Any suggestions for a title?
We can do this folks; there is a TON of talent on this Hairtell board. (Spanish translation? Oh YEAH!) I’m thinking: An international group of experts …
Maybe, it’s possible norcal got a bad operator. It’s also more than possible that the amount of hair removal necessary was never communicated with her.I think that more likely honestly
Norcal, it’s got to feel like EVERYONE is ganging up on you. It’s not true, they are, concerned.The simple fact is that what you are doing is very bad for the skin. Laser dry’s out the skin and is very hard on it. Repeated treatments that often wont do anything to reduce hair, it will however dry out the skin and the heat may cause scarring.
Electrolysis always works. But, it’s SLOW AS HECK. I often relate the difference between laser and electrolysis as that of using a bulldozer or a garden trowel to clear an acre of land. So it’s very possible you might not see progress. That doesnt mean it’s not taking place.
There is NO HAIR that laser will remove after 4 years of treatment, unless it’s long already gone. Its possible that he dysphoria over hair, is making the problem worse in your mind than it really is.
Now not liking the SENSATION of electrolysis is completely understandable. But I should tell you, this sensation differs greatly from practitioner to practitioner, and from machine to machine. What you feel from an Apilus Platinum, is very different from say an Apilus Senior. Night and day different.
I think the best way to help this client is to get them in to see a REALLY GOOD operator. For this though we would need a location (I’m guessing, northern California?) . Someone who will set realistic expectations for her and , if there is a hormonal imbalance causing hair growth, refer to a qualified MD to help even that aspect out.I can think of one person in that area, if he can be convinced to work on a womans face 
but I’m sure they could also refer to other california operators too.
Your hair removal is manageable, and despite your feelings, electrolysis IS the best way. But in order for you to realize that , you need someone very good to do it right.And set expectations at appropriate levels.
Seana
My zipcode is 94945 in the state of CA.
Which would put you in Novato California, a tad north of San Franciso.
Michael, do you have anyone you know is really good in that area? Someone who’s going to educate and communicate? Here’s a client that could really use a good referral.
And norcal, I urge you to give it a fair shot. Listen when the person talks about expectations. One thing I’v realized, is not everyone looks at the hair or even notices. We are are own worst critics. I will say if you give it a honest go, your problem with hair will be solved. Not overnight, but absolutely within a year if you follow the advice givent to you and stick with it.
I’m also going to suggest norcal you post a picture or two of the hair growth. There is alot of information that can be gleamed from such a picture to give you an accurate expectation. And you are in exactly the right place to get advice here.
In the meantime, after checking the boards briefly, there are two referrals noted nearish you. One in Novato:
Geen Larson, RE
415-883-6920
And a second in Santa Rosa:
Amelia James has moved to a nicer location and changed the name of her business. In addition to electrolysis, she offers a wide range of skin care procedures and products.
You can now find her at:
Cypress Day Spa and Salon
2323 Fourth St.
Santa rosa, CA 95404
707-539-4896
www.CypressDaySpa.com
ameliajames@cypressdayspa.com
Most of the referrals have no comments. Amelia seems to be an exception, at least 3 people have taken the time to say " go see her" . I dont know how viable travel to Santa Rosa is for you, but that seems a good place to start.
Seana
Here is someone some TG people have used successfully in San Francisco:
Susan Feiga
560 Sutter Street, #310
San Francisco, CA. 94102
Phone : (415) 781-4264
Email : susanfeiga@aol.com
Seana, did you have a chance to experience on yourself the difference between Apilus Platinum and Apilus Senior?
I’ve had the chance to experience a platinum. Also a SM-500 which is very similar to to a senior ( some slightly different features) but I havent tried one of the original seniors myself ( which is different again from the seniorII), no. I barely felt the treatment on the platinum, but I definitely do with the SM-500.I’ve also had treatment using a VMC. Each were different. It’s also worth noting each were used by a different person. The platinum was used by one of the first people I went to. The SM-500 by myself as an operator, and the VMC by the students at a school. The VMC, I probably was worked on by 8 different people. It’s important to note that even with the same machine, the feeling of treatment was different in each case. I liked the VMC alot, notsomuch for all the people using it.
Seana, I keep seeing mention of hormonal issues but to be honest, this is a non issue for electrolysis which I’m sure you will find out when you start working professionally on women’s faces. An electrologist that blames hormonal issues for their electrolysis not working or being slow is (in my opinion) making excuses. A start to finish job should take about a year… not a whole lot is going to change in that amount of time in terms of new follicles.
An electrologist’s job is to destroy follicles, if a woman presents with more hair than typical because of hormonal sensitivity or imbalance, it really doesn’t matter because active follicles can be destroyed in one treatment regardless of any hormonal issues.
It is true that a woman, for example, with PCO/PCOS dormant follicles may become active later so she may need further electrolysis but these would just be touch up treatments and nothing like the magnitude of the original work.
The most effective method is to dispatch the follicles… even the ones that are not yet a problem because stimulation may occur later.
Some problems are fixable through a change in lifestyle and diet. Drugs temporarily alleviate symptoms. Once you have hair, your only option for permanency is electrolysis. Fixing fixable issues should help prevent future occurrences… In my experience, I’ve actually found fewer women with excess hair than I expected actually have a diagnosable hormonal issue.
actually tidyup the thrust of my post was to get the person to a qualified electrologist. I mentioned hormones once in passing due to their 4 year of treatment with still recurring hair) but I dont have any reason to suggest that’s the case and didnt suggest that it was.
You’ll also note that if in any post there was question of PCOS my advice was the same every time: see a qualified doctor. I dont pretend to be one nor do I push any particular treatment. Your feelings on lifestyle or diet notwithstanding, I’d take the advice of a MD over a layman any day.
Sorry if you misread it.
When I say that I “keep seeing mention”, I mean that I have read a number of your replies in different threads mentioning hormonal issues. Even though you may not mean this at all, they give the reader the impression that electrolysis won’t work or won’t work well if the client has unresolved hormonal issues.
I definitely agree that if there is reason, people should get checked out and of course the electrologist should suggest ruling out a hormonal imbalance if they have any suspicions. However, I feel clients should be fully aware that their hormonal issues should not be used as an excuse for poor work.
rubbish.No where have I told anyone not to start electrolysis before fixing any hormonal issue they have. I dont tell them to wait 3 months after plucking to start either. We just tell them not to pluck.
You’re right, quite a few women have come to this board complaining of excess male pattern hair growth of late ( more than usual?).Some of those threads I’ve been involved in, others not.
Seana
I never said you had, I said that even though you may not mean to, you give the reader (or at least just this particular reader) this impression.
What does telling client to wait 3 months after plucking have to do with this? If you want to discuss why this, why some would recommend this and associated pros and cons, we can do that separately.
I can see where you mayget that impression…MAYBE. If it werent for the fact that I will say things like : And this is where hormones dont matter. Electrolysis works, whether male or female. Once the folicle is dead it doesnt grow another hair"
Now to be fair, I’m not at my best. I’ve been sick for 2 weeks, had estate issues for my mom’s estate to deal with so probably been more than a little defensive. If I gave you that impression, it wasnt intentional. I’m probably not at my best and probably havent communicated effectively either.
Either way, we’ve gone way off topic from helping this person. Maybe message me if you have other concerns.
What I meant to say is, we dont tell people not to get electrolysis .Not because of hormones. Not because they plucked.Not if they are male and not if they are female. We dont say this, because electrolysis done right always works. Beyond that there isnt much to say.
Seana
I think we are on the same page Seana. I apologise if my post came across the wrong way. I just wanted to clarify this for other readers because if I am getting that impression from some of your posts, then others may have misunderstood in the same way. I think you and I both know how often things like hormones are blamed (by the electrologist) for electrolysis not working well or quickly on their client. We need to do everything we can to ensure clients or prospective clients know that their hormonal issues won’t impede them becoming drastically freer of hair.
What a waste of money…