Flash same as Thermolysis?

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#21

You’re right lagirl, but I have to say, I see a good share of ex-laser clients that range from pleased to not yet satisfied to really ticked off because laser caused more hair to grow. A lot of my electrolysis work stems from finishing up ex-laser clients that seek help when LASER reaches those diminishing return situations. There is a certain beauty of using the two modalites in combination for large areas, absolutely. But for several situations, if they had come to me to start the work on the face, abdomen and arm areas, for example, I could have gotten control and maintained control of these areas very fast with no downtown to wait for shedding to occur in 2-3 weeks. The hair is gone the minute they leave my office. It would have been cheaper, also.

I added this later…

LASER competes with electrolysis because it is out there being promoted heavily and with glowing acclaimations front and center by the wealthy LASER industry in almost every magazine and news media front you can imagine, while information about electrolysis is never seen or heard about unless it is cast in a negative light as being painful, tedious and something that will scar you.

The market always has the final say for any product, but if the consumer is not aware of a very good option like electrolysis then we can expect that this also very good option will struggle and maybe drown under the bravado of LASER.

Dee

#22

yeah, i agree. i cringe every time i hear ads for laser hair removal, which are constant here in LA; completely exaggerated and making it seem like it’s an effortless painless process for all. unfortunately, there are few people who can easily separate marketing hype from facts. and that, with a ton of bad technicians and/or bad machines thrown in makes it a complete mess. and that is actually same for electrolysis. laser marketers capitalize on that bunch of bad electrologists who are slow and cause scars. good thing for these forums at least to shed a bit of light on the issue. it’s nice to see when people come here and take charge of their situation in the correct way, with a well-thought out approach. AND don’t expect it to be a done deal within a month like the commercials make it seem, no matter which method you choose.

#23

Actually Dee, you answered them very well. Seven months to switch to auto, that tells me something of the difficulty being that you probably do this almost every day. I see now that it’s not going to be something just months down the road. I also was going over some of the CPE/RE requirements and I see there’s something to getting certified, 600 hours is a lot of practice.

As for what I’m mapping out, that’s changing with the more I’m getting familiar with all the technicalities. I’m kicking around the idea of working on a certification, and that would probably involve plucking out more than a few of my own, but I just see all these red ligts go up when DIY Electrolysis is mentioned. So it’s probably going to be more of a co-plucker situation, and I will keep going to my electrologist. Besides, I learn alot from just asking her questions and seeing what types of lights, binoculars, and settings she uses.

My concern isn’t so much the cost, it’s the time. I just want to see tangible progress and if I can give it a boost, I want to try my hand. I trying to weasel a machine from somebody that practices down here, and I think they may let go of a machine they don’t use. Of course I’d stick with galvonic before anything else was attempted. Thanks Dee, James, all others helping others.

Mantaray

#24

"Since this is a consumer hair site, I really see little value of defining in detail, complete with math symbols, the breakdown of microsecond,nanosecond,picosecond, etc.so I’m thinking that kind of discussion is fruitless because consumers care about hair, not engineering terms. Well, okay, maybe RJC2001 cares about engineering stuff, but he’s probably the only one here on hairtell that does.

Parts of your posts are hard for me to follow and I’m not sure what you are trying to say to me most of the time, viewer. I simply have to apologize for being so obtuse."

The fabricators of myth are counting on this. Innocently, well meaning people will spread a myth, because they didn’t do the math. I haven’t posted the math just defined the terms; I didn’t create these definitions; I am reporting them.

to simplify. In electrolysis, a flash is defined as less then one second. That was the original questions.

A Pico, by definition is a fraction with a value of one trillionth. that is 12 zeros. A fraction, with a denominator with 12 zeros!!! Wow! That is small.

James, hurry back, I am just dying to hear what a pico watt is!!

#25

Viewer, any real question you had has been asked and answered here, or previously on the site.

If one used the search feature, one would find that we discussed this back when the product was in Beta Testing, and again when it was launched. We here on the site are fully aware that the machine doesn’t make the electrologist create settings accurate down to the Pico unit.

The term PicoFlash™ is a copywrite protected term used by the Apilus/Dectro corporation to describe a high powered treatment delivery system that can be utilized in VERY, Very, very short timings. It is only available on the Apilus Platinum from Dectro International.

Please direct your further questions to them. They absolutely love to talk about their innovations, and the fact that this particular product, The Apilus Platinum epilator, won the Canadian Innovation of the Year award for the year 2005.

Dectro International
1000, boulevard du Parc-Technologique
Québec (Québec)
Canada G1P 4S3

Phone: 418.650.0303
Toll Free: 1.800.463.5566
Fax: 418.650.0707

Ask nicely, and they will even allow you to talk to the scientists who did all the hard work, and the marketing guys who dreamed up the term PicoFlash, and how they justify calling it that.

I caution you, however, that your explanation will probably be similar to the one GM uses to explain why they use the misleading term, “Cruise Control” to describe what Chrysler Corporation more aptly calls “Speed Control.” After all, you car doesn’t drive itself when you engage “Cruise Control.”

More important to the real discussion of this post string is the amount of control one has on the settings on a machine. Going from guestimating on a stereo knob system with markings at tenths of an unknown unit of measure that is different for every manufacturer, to a digital setting system that can be understood and set to minute significant figures and repeated every time, and stored for future use in a file that is keyed to that client’s name is an improvement. Being able to utilize all this in addition to an auto setting that can be triggered with an insertion delay that can be set as low as 0.01 seconds after insertion allows one who has good visual aid and has mastered both good insertions, and rhythm to work faster, while not losing quality in pursuit of quantity.

Take Care

#26

James, you edited your post. You said you would explain and I am waiting for an explaination of pico watt. I did seach. I didn’t find pico watt. I already looked at the dectro website no where did I find pico watt. I have e-mailed them 3 times and they have not answered my e-mails I know you are busy but what is a pico watt?

#27

Actually viewer, this thread hadn’t been dug up since July of 2005. The current discussion is perspectives on flash as compared to non-flash thermolysis and blend. What James and Dee have illustrated in this post is yet another example of the how these pros are such valued resources on this board. I couldn’t really care about a manufacturer’s term. I care about experience and wisdom. They don’t have to volunteer their experience, and nobody makes them. But they do, and they do with patience. Go into the DIY thread, and read the posts about people wanting to buy machines to replace their One Touch purchases. Think about how much patience it takes to answer these new and inexperienced questions with sincerity over and over. …You know, these people like this, they make this board the premier site that it is. To the point that you could almost earn continuing education credit just by absorbing what they offer.

If you have a question, and it alludes to a manufacturer’s term, or, what you may think of as a manufacturer’s term, then conduct research on your own, and what you learn will benefit you. That is my best advice.

…Now, funny how you say that only RJC would be the only one else here to appreciate engineering terms. That is, these terms of scale prefixs you mention. Because, you see, having gone to medical school, and having been involved in medical research for a decade, I see those terms not as engineering terms, but as general numerical and science terms. I’m interested in the terms, but they are, far, far away from why I like this thread.

…Further, I too have a very, very strong interest in mathematics. I don’t really see base numerical scale terms as anything near what I consider real math, becuase my heroes are Newton, Guass, Archimedes, Riemann, de Branges, Galois, Poincare, Euler (oh yes, ya gotta love Euler!!), and Pascal somewhat. And I believe what most of them said, that math was the great converter, that most mathematical breakthroughs are done in solitude, with only candle light or one light bulb burning, and with a chalkboard and chalk clacking together in a staccato of enlightened frenzy. You can’t believe how happy I was to finally understand the proof of Jacobi’s Triple Sum. I confidently, an quietly kept it to myself. I smiled, set down the chalk, had a good cup of coffee, marveling over it for fifteen minutes, then erased it. Onto something else. You gotta move on. Most mathematicians really don’t discuss math, they’re famous for discussing anything but math when they meet. You see, if it’s understood, no point in discussion, and if not, then the other probably has things on his/her mind that is occupying almost all their free thought. No point in rousing that either. I think of the Euler Identity’s association of prime numbers to wholecounting numbers incessantly, it’s amazing. And I surely don’t want anyone to bother that beautiful train of thought with discordant conversation as to how many digits a 1986 HP-15c has on it’s display. It’s just not important.

Read ‘Men of Mathematics’ by E.T. Bell, published in 1937, still the gold standard today. You will benefit from it.

Mantaray
~Don’t pick your ingrowns~

#28

…Now, funny how you say that only RJC would be the only one else here to appreciate engineering terms. That is, these terms of scale prefixs you mention. Because, you see, having gone to medical school, and having been involved in medical research for a decade, I see those terms not as engineering terms, but as general numerical and science terms. I’m interested in the terms, but they are, far, far away from why I like this thread.

I didn’t say this Dee did. Then I quoted her i my reply. My point is that it is very easy to fool people with words. and beleive it or not I wasn’t trying to. I was defining terms like pico as a word as a fraction and in scientific notation. The numbers became overwhelming. That wasn’t my intention. My intention was to not type out 12 zeros. That is where errors are made.

I am not the one that said picoWATT is a manufacturer’s term. Although PicoFLASH is a manufacturer’s term. I did not say that either. In fact I believe James made the term picowatt when he said he would explain pico flash in terms of Pico watt. He edited his post. He created a new word.

Pico has a measureable value,
A watt can be measured. I have already done the research.

I have done the math. I didn’t post a single calculation.

I defined terms. Terms that are used on this board.
Fractions are grade school. Scientfic notation is 7th grade. I typed it using accurate computer symbols. Surely after Med School you recognized that. I guess if I had used words not numbers, it wouldn’t have been confusing.

You put other people’s words in my mouth. I know you were just reading along. I am not offended. I make the same mistake. I will look into the book you suggested. But I will not have time right away. I did read every post and the dates. I know it was started way back. Go back and read all the posts.

#29

Speaking of putting words in people’s mouths, I NEVER said PicoWATT in this post string, and to my knowledge in no post string ever on this board.

You accuse me of editing something just because your misreading of something, or imagined reading can’t be backed up. The closest I came to saying “PicoWATT” was when I said don’t blame me for the fact that the machine doesn’t allow one to make settings in units of one billionth of a watt at one billionth of a second.

Even if I HAD said PicoWATT, it is obvious that the term would therefore scientifically be one billionth of a watt, or, would be a misused trade name. In this instance, the meaning would obviously be one billionth of a watt.

Do we have to be so childish here? Do you have a point?

Could you at least TRY to stick to helping the consumers instead of being such a nit picking ninny wasting our bandwidth with this type of dreck?

Tell you what, I am unable to be online all that much now. Why don’t you just take over the board and answer all the questions? It is easy enough to look through and find post strings that are one post asking a question and no answer. I am sure that when everyone else who volunteers their time here comes online and finds the perfect answer, worded the perfect way, they will be just as happy as I am when they don’t have to add a single thing. The consumers will also be happy to have fast answers uncluttered by posts like this. This thing where people wait for others to post, and then argue with them, when they were unwilling to answer the post in the first place is getting really old.

Of course, I am the one who has spent time asking for other electrologists to come on here and help out, so I take my heaping helping of blame for this trend.

To all of you, I apologize.

#30

Speaking of putting words in people’s mouths, I NEVER said PicoWATT in this post string, and to my knowledge in no post string ever on this board.

You accuse me of editing something just because your misreading of something, or imagined reading can’t be backed up. The closest I came to saying “PicoWATT” was when I said don’t blame me for the fact that the machine doesn’t allow one to make settings in units of one billionth of a watt at one billionth of a second.

Even if I HAD said PicoWATT, it is obvious that the term would therefore scientifically be one billionth of a watt, or, would be a misused trade name. In this instance, the meaning would obviously be one billionth of a watt.

Do you have a point?

The machine doesn’t allow you billionth setting units at billionth of a second because billionth setting units don’t exsist in electrology. Or does it?

Yes, I do have a point thanks for helping me make it. Now go back and edit because a pico is define as a trillionth not a billionth. You left off three zeros. And Picowatt is not a trademark for a reason. If it could be measured it would be one trillionth of a watt.

Before your edit you said that Picoflash™ was a term to explain picowatt. Pico is a fractional value; it is definable and measurable. Watt is definable. Seconds; and picoseconds are measurable and definable. that is why they are not trademark terms.
Thank you for taking the time to explain what you said you would do before your edit. You made good on your word you said you would explain and you did.

Now let me reiterate:

PicoFlash is a trademark term (not science or new technology) much as “coke is the real thing” is a trademark term. Pepsi(or anyone) can’t use it because it is trademark.

Now I think this “old” post was dug up to promote this trademark. This is a consumer information website after all not a promotional site for a TRADEMARK.

You see words are easily misconstrued. Consumers and electrologists even CPE’s can easily misconstrue a meaning.

The fabricators of myth count on this.

So James, the term Picoflash ™ is used all over this website. Are you going to go back and edit and add trademark to each of them?

James, are you using a trademark term to promote a product? Are you being paid? Or are you, in your haste, an unwitting promotor?

Wait!! Pico is a “scientific term” with a definition.
Picoflash ™ has been given a specific value (definition) by its creator!!!

A Picoflash™ is a is equal to a millisecond 1/1000!!!

I didn’t make this up! IT is defined everwhere, on the web, in printed literature!!! Picoflash ™ has a measurable value!!!

So I conclude one trillionth of a flash is defined as one thousanth of a second. WOW!!!

If pico is a trillion and a picoflash™ is a thousanth.
We can now define and measure a flash in seconds. We can give flash a definite numerical value!!!

iff picoflash™equals 1/1000 seconds then a Flash is One billions seconds Long. Wow that is a long freaking time.

If pico is a trillionth and picoflash™ is equal to a milli second a flash has to be defined at one billion seconds long!!! I didn’t make this up! I did the calculations! Would you like to see them? I can post them. Or you can do it yourself. To solve for the unknown “flash” you isolate it by multiplying the inverse. It is an equation so you have to keep it balanced and equal.

I guess I can’t do flash on my epilator. It only goes out to two places. Not a billion seconds.

I have been accused of using numbers to confuse. Words have been use to confused. I think word fabricators used well meaning people to spread the word!

James, it wasn’t your encouragement that brought me to this site. . .it was confused and misguided clients. It was lose of income because I didn’t own a trademark.

#31

I am inferior to the superior.
Now please go and relieve us of our misguidedness.
I am inferior to the superior.

#32

There is always a deeper reason for an antagonistic approach one takes with another and viewer, the last paragraph of your post says it all. You don’t like the advice given on this website because it appears you have an older epilator and you can’t afford to upgrade because you don’t have the volume of clients that could make an expensive upgrade all worth the effort. I recall that you said that there are more deer than people where you live. Right?.. So, clients read the information given here on hairtell and call you with questions about equipment, visual aid, modality used, etc. and doubt you and become confused because you do something other than what is encouraged here.

Free advice about electrolysis on this forum is given all within the realm of what is good for the consumer’s time, tolerance, skin reaction and pocketbook. If that is too much for you to handle and you don’t want to change what you do, just so you know, NOBODY is telling you how to run your business life. Do what you need to do and be true to yourself. Your clients will decide which direction to go with the information they gather and if you are concerned about losing income,don’t blame another electrologist, go figure out what you need to do to improve what you offer.

I disagree with James. I think someone else is inferior to the superior. This string has gone from practical, helpful information to pure silliness.

Dee

#33

Dee, you don’t have a trademark either. Does that make you inferior and out dated too? Of Course not. You have two outstanding epilators. Learn to use them to their full potential. I have two outstanding epilators. I am fairly new to this field. I bought brand new equiptment–too new to be outdated. How does a trademark make everything else obsolete? I also don’t have competition. That’s not the point the point is I have all the clients. Most clients dont have the luxury of choosing an electrologist by brand. Even more people don’t have access to an electrologist. It you were investigating this as a career and you thought you had to purchase a 10 grand machine would you do it?

You both have great advice and experience. But I think if people forgo electrolysis because of a trademark thats too bad. Now when I get silly questions like how many hair per hour? What brand of machine? Do you use ballet probes? I reply, “you spend too much time on the internet come in face to face.” I could tell them what they want to hear. what would they know? But I am honest.

Now I just happened to have had two occassions to have a check (that is 20 grand total) in my hands. Enough money for a trademark. Before I parted with that money, I did research. I consulted with many trademark owners. I consulted with engineers about technology. I did not find new and improved technology --I found a trademark. I don’t value a trademark. Why are electrologist pushing a trademark? I want to keep electrolysis affordable and available. I started experimenting with settings and techiques, And guess what?

#34

Okay, I admit I’m confused again. What is a trademark brand epilator. It’s really okay to name the brand and model here on hairtell, viewer.

Yes, I own two epilators that are top notch and I know how to use them to my advantage and more importantly, for the advantage of my clients skin and pocketbook. I am well-versed whether I do straight galvanic, multi-needle galvanic, blend, manual thermolysis, flash thermolysis or microflash thermolysis. Since I have done them all, I can honestly say that I much prefer microflash thermolysis for all the reasons I have stated many times before on this site and others. If I had a picoflasher type epilator, that would be my first choice.

I care deeply about delivering good service with great equipment to hairy people that are psychological messes when I first encounter them. It’s affirming to see them so happy when the hair is cleared and maintained. They want and expect to pay for the hair to be gone ASAP.

That’s really all I’m trying to share with you is how I personally have found a good formula for satisfying people who want the hair off fast and for good. It works. It’s works really well, ballet gold probes and all, and I never would have known all of this if James Walker had selfishly hidden himself away and not contributed sensible information to this site as well as to the AEA forum. He is such a kind man and deserves respect for what he knows and for sharing all his knowledge and brillance, in general, with us.

A local electrologist was my friend and mentor as I was going through electrology school, but she died suddenly after I graduated. I had no one to turn to for questions and I was scared at times as I grappled with being a newbie in business. You don’t learn everything in electrology school and a license doesn’t mean you are really good at this stuff. We all need help from people that are smarter and wiser than us. I sought out help from James after I found hairtell. James was very calming and encouraging AND offered great advice that made sense to me. He still does offer help to many others and I will personally never forget to recognize and thank him for helping me figure certain things out.

Now, what is a trademark brand, please?

Dee

#35

Mantaray
~Don’t pick your ingrowns~

What to do about them then?I have long ingrown hairs that I can see as long black lines through my skin <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

#36

if they’re close to the skin’s surface, you can use a needle and help them out. an elecrolysis professional can do it with a needle as well, or since you’re doing it yourself, you can try to do it yourself. you just have to be careful not to damage the skin.

#37

It is best to remove ingrown hairs by either using Tend Skin or making up your own Tend Skin type solution at home (there is a post string all about Home Tend Skin Mix somewhere on the site) The mixture must be applied with a cotton swab (I don’t dare say Q-Tip™ as and skin to skin contact outside the treated area, as would happen with a cotton ball or direct finger application, would lead to negative reactions outside the ingrown. Basically, you would have pealing skin on your fingirs.

There are also products that use salysilic acid in creams and gels, like “Bumphree” (Get it? Bump-Free) but I find the liquid has the fastest action time. Sometimes, you even get the hair popping out as you apply the product.

Sorry I don’t have time to edit this post, or clean up the grammar.

Take Care, and if you do dig them out, have someone esle do it. You don’t want to be fishing around and scarring yourself, and please use clean implements to enter the skin. You don’t want to get an infection just to remove a hair that would come out in a few days to a week anyway had it been left alone.