Thank you for getting back to me on this.
I have noticed that the more moist the follicle the less painful the actual treatment feels. This seems counter intuitive. Does the moisture act as a buffer? Also when the probe is not perfectly inserted / aligned with the folicle the pain is greater… it does seem that the current has some effect in the pain sensation. Or is that a misinterpretstion on my part?
I do not know if moisture acts as a buffer. I too have noticed that an imperfect insertion will result in more discomfort but I am not sure what mechanisms are at work when this happens. Discomfort is directly proportional to current intensity.
Why do you need DC current at 3mA? AR Fischer-Hinkel go up to 2mA but that’s a lot of current and not used.
Sorry for the longer response time. I do indeed wonder if it is the current causing the pain or the chemical reaction. I couldn’t find a clear statement with regard to it. Thank you so much for your input though. It is good to have other opinions about it.
Indeed I saw that some producers go up to 2mA but there were dubious makers. Hence, thanks for the tip. I did not know that the AR was going as high.
The reason I am looking for such capabilities is that I realised that increasing current does not increase pain during the treatment if the insertion is well done. Thus by increasing intensity i should like to shorten treatment time per follicle in galvanic mode.
I had read that in the 19th century intensities as high as 3mA were used and wanted to give it a try.
Thanks for your reply !
As galvanic current increases so does discomfort. 3mA even for a short periods is extremely painful.
I am currently using 0.99 mA (mas for apilus senior II) for 21 seconds to achieve a clean release. I started with 0.4 mA and I found it more painful then 0.99.
The manifestation of pain was different in fact. At lower current intensities the pain is delayed by a few seconds. It starts painless and builds up to a warm pain longer pain. At 0.99 the pain is sudden and acute but fades within a second as soon as the reaction has started. I know some people are more sensitive to galvanic but in my case I feel more comfortable with 0.99mA. This is why I wonder whether going up to 2 or 3mA would create more pain
Everyone has different pain sensitivity. Some people can tolerate high intensities, others cannot. Generally speaking when higher levels are used (RF or galvanic) the sensation is more intense.
I agree with this I have taken note of this several times when I’ve gone to my appointment dehydrated and it was significantly more uncomfortable.
Welcome to the forums ! I like the way you think
From what I know, and correct me if I am wrong please somebody reading this,
The pain / discomfort is from the electric current being applied so I believe it’s the electric current itself that causes discomfort , not the sodium hydroxide (I could be wrong)
So to find out if your electrologist is doing it correctly, there should only be discomfort shortly after needle is inserted (when current begins to flow) and it should stop before or as they remove the needle - if any discomfort is felt as they are removing the hair with tweezer, it means they didn’t effectively weaken the hair enough, there should be no resistance
There is something wrong here. It is necessary about 80 UL to destroy thick,beard hair.
UL(Unit of Lye) is calculated using the formula UL=10xtime(sec)xCurrent(mA). In your case UL=10x 0.99mA x 21s=207.9. This is a lot of UL.
- The insertions are not precise. With this amount of lye you can make big dermal injury, which can lead to scars.
- Machine needs to be re-calibrated.
- The neutral electrode is not used the right way.
Some other notes. We use DC current in Galvanic mode which is responsible for creation of lye in the follicle. This lye destroys the follicle tissue and the surrounding nerves. This we feel as a sharp pain for 1-2 sec. The other constant pain is caused by the DC current flawing between the probe and the neutral electrode. The higher the DC the higher is the pain.
The modern electrolysis machines are constant current source. The machine works by using the formula V=RxIwhere V is Voltage in (V), R is the resistance between the the probe and the neutral electrode (Ohm) and I is the Current set by the operator (in Amper). The machine changes the Voltage( depending of Resistance) to maintain the constant current. This fluctuation could create more pain. To reduce the fluctuation of the voltage we have to reduce the changes of the resistance between the 2 electrodes.
It is very important of how to use the neutral electrode.
- Place the neutral electrode as close as possible to the treated area. This will reduce the resistance between the 2 electrode thus the Voltage required to maintain the set current.
- Do not place the neutral electrode where the skin is thin or close to bones. Chose place with thick skin and more muscle under the skin.
- Use the electrode with a sponge soaked with high conductive liquid like salt water.
- Make constant and stable contact with the skin.
Thank you so much for your detailed explanation. It is a very interesting insight. I have also seen people using a metal bowl filled with salt water into which the anode was placed.
I will certainly try your technique and let you know whether I am able to increase the speed or reduce the amperage.
I do not have any marks from over treatment so far but in most places I can’t get below 17 seconds per hair at 0.9 or 0.99mA. I bought my Apilus used from an official dectro distributor. Could it be that it requires calibration? Is there a way to test this?
Nice to meet you too here and sorry for the late response.
Thanks for your kind message. I must inform you that I am merely a fan of electrolysis like you who likewise wants to deepen his knowledge of the galvanic modality perhaps we can find out more together.
Let’s keep.in touch on here.
Hi Ilan Paul,
I do not know how much experience you have, but you can read this for more information:
I think the first thing you should do is to confirm that your machine works fine. You can ask Dectro distributor, did they do calibration and when. The machine is old technology and contains trimmers which are using for calibration. These trimmers change their value over time so periodic re-calibration is required. Also the machine has an IC, containing battery. If the battery gets low or depleted the machine will not work properly. So this IC should be replaced.
Second. If the machine is OK then you have to make sure that you use the neutral electrode properly.
Third. If everything is OK with the machine and the neutral electrode, then the problem is your work. You must use non insulated probe with the same diameter(or bigger) of the size of the treated hair. Set the machine for 80 UL(if you treat beard type of hair).After the cycle is finished, remove the probe from the follicle but do not remove the hair. Wait at least 10sec and then try to remove the hair. It should slide out without any resistance.The lye needs time to work in the follicle. If the hair does not slide out that means you should work on your insertion.
If you are serious about electrolysis I strongly suggest that you should take professional training.
The pain comes from the voltage not the current
Does anyone know a more detailed explanation of the metal bowl vs just holding electrode
I’ve had my hand in a metal bowl and held the electrode with a damp rag.
Which one is better. Does having the hand in the bowl make galvanic more effective?
And is it just water in the bowl or is it saline solution?
Thank you so much for the input.
Following your reasoning, I assume reducing resistance reduces pain. Could wd then infer that the presence of greater moisture decreases electrolytic resistance thus reducing pain?
Thank you so much for your many suggestions.
I would like to let you know that I tried out the highly soaked sponge with salt water at the anode and it worked wonders… I am now able to treat a hair in 10 seconds at 0.99mA. You have given me a most precious gift: Time :). I am very grateful to you Dimitrov.
Indeed I did wonder why I needed so many uL before but I thought perhaps the formula was applicable to the blend modality only i.e. 80 uL when heated using high frequency. Regarding this formula I was wondering if it is based on an assumption of average moisture in the hair follicle. Suppose you treat a dryer hair, i.e. minimal presence of water and salt. The electrolytic reaction will be limited by the amount of water that can be split at the cathode. Could it then be that in order to reach the same uL for different follicles with different moisture levels one may need to apply current for different lengths of time?
Now that the quarantine is over I am looking for proper schooling in electrolysis. Are there still schools teaching galavanic nowadays? Would you have any recommendations regarding schooling. In Belgium a license is not required but I would like to offer the most professional service possible.
Have q good day and thank you again for your valuable tips.
My training was in Dectro (Canada) and I do not know school which teaches galvanic very well. Noreen is a specialist in MNG so maybe she can give you advice.
UL is just relative number linked to the size of the hair. Bigger hair required more lye so the UL is higher. UL could be use for initial assessment of the hair to be treated and to make adequate settings.The real criteria is the smooth hair release without any resistance. It could be 70UL or 85UL or 20UL. In fact each hair is different and will require different amount of lye.
The heated lye is more caustic and work faster. This we achieve by using blend method.More moisture in the follicle help creating lye faster, so we will need less time to make the amount of lye, necessary to destroy the follicle.
If you have the machine user manual I suggest also to read it and to verify all the accessories like wires, probeholders etc.