does insurance ever pay for electrolysis?

James, thanks for the great letter!

Do you know will this letter work for male-to-female transsexuals who are having the beard removed?

Afterall, we also suffer from a hormonal imbalance (born with female minds/brains, but with a male body which is defective). this is a physical disorder, not a mental one. In any case though, we suffer from a medical condition known as Gender Identity Disorder.

Transsexuals who still have facial hair have a harder time functioning in society, so it is medically necessary, just as it is for genetic females who are hirsute.

As I said to the last person who asked me this question, you will still need a co-operative doctor, and the iron will to push past all the insurance company BS and sue them in small claims court if need be. For a transsexual, Good electrology, leaving smooth perfect skin is not only a matter of cosmetic appearance, but personal safety as well.

It just won’t be any easier to get from your insurance company than it would be for a genetic female. Either you have an insurance company who will do it without a fuss, or you have one that will put up a fight, and you just have to beat them down. You can’t beat them down without a sympathetic doctor willing to write you letters and help you with your court case, should you need to file one.

The letter here is just an outline, all your doctor needs to do is plug in your condition and his explaination of why hair removal is needed in your case, and you go forward with everything else you see here.

Good Luck

PS, fill out that registration form so people can be of more help to you!

Hi James, thanks for everything, including your expertise!

<< As I said to the last person who asked me this question, you will still need a co-operative doctor, and the iron will to push past all the insurance company BS and sue them in small claims court if need be. >>

My insurance company is Medicare, so I would have to sue the United States in federal court! Yikes!

And the US governemnt will not get beaten down in court, since their lawyers are all salaried and do not care about the cost, like a normal insurance company lawyer would!! No “it makes more sense just to pay the claim, since this is costing us too much”.

You mean the US government does things like break the rules, and later say, “Ok, you proved us wrong, so what”?

Very funny!

I received an appeal notice letter dated 8-22-05. Insurance had 30 days to file and it appears that they stalled to the last possible day. The instructions stated that I had to go downtown in person to file a complaint. The hearing is scheduled for December - that’s a long time for me to wait; I think I should charge interest when I win.

Now it’s their move - they have 20 days to file in person or by attorney that they intend to defend themselves. In addition, there’s a $25 fee. I didn’t have to pay anything this time.

We could be starting a revolution here. Insurance companies everywhere could find themselves sued all across the country. We better get all we can, they might slip something in the next patriot act outlawing these payments like the chemical companies did to make sure you can’t sue them for mercury poisoning.

In light of today’s news story, I figured I should bump this post string up to today’s active topics so the point is clear. Insurance companies DO pay for electrolysis.

This story?

http://www.hairtell.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/25741/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD

That’s the one.

She was cheating. Directly billing insurance companies for something else, while she was actually performing electrolysis (if she was doing anything at all)

It occurs to me that the addition of this information may help people like Mileena:

PCOS, CPT code 256.4; or Androgen Excess, CPT code 256.1

A precedent has already been set indicating that depilatory treatments are “medical care” for insurance purposes (Abernathy v. The Prudential Insurance Company of America, No. 21178, Supreme Court of South Carolina, March 31, 1980). In this case Plaintiff brought suit against her insurer after it refused to reimburse her for the cost of depilatory treatments (i.e. electrolysis) which had been recommended by her physician. The policy included as “eligible expense” charges for “doctors’ services for surgical procedures and other medical care”, and contained a provision excluding “anything not ordered by a doctor or not necessary for medical care of illness”. The South Carolina State Supreme Court affirmed a verdict for the plaintiff, noting that there is no requirement that “medical care … be performed by or under the direction of licensed medical personnel”. Further, the court held, since plaintiff underwent treatments pursuant to her physician’s advice, such expenses were medically “necessary and were not excluded from coverage under the policy”.

Again, if your health care provider has covered any part of your treatment that has anything to do with why your hair removal in needed, you have a good chance to beat the money out of them in small claims court.

I’d like to get you caught up on what’s happened since my last post:

PRE-TRIAL: I received correspondence dated 8-30-05 called a “Substitution of Counsel”. This stated that Insurance was withdrawing the appearance of a lawyer that I’ll call ‘E’ and ‘So-and-So & Associates’, and entering the appearance of a lawyer ‘N’ and Insurance on behalf of Insurance. (The appeal notice letter that I mentioned in my post #24581 - Sat Aug 27 2005 03:14 PM was signed by Lawyer ‘N’.)

Then I received a letter dated 9-12-05 from So-and-So & Assoc. This included their “Notice of Intention to Appear” which stated that they don’t owe anything because “The electrolysis performed in this matter was a cosmetic procedure and, therefore, not a covered benefit of the Pennsylvania Medical Assistance Program”. Also included was another “Substitution of Counsel”, withdrawing Lawyer ‘N’ and entering Lawyer ‘E’, a lawyer ‘M’, and So-and-So & Assoc. on behalf of Insurance.

12-13-05 TRIAL DAY: [Disclaimer: I think anyone who reads this post should keep in mind that, even though I am honest, I could be getting these details wrong due to the fact that I was extremely nervous and upset, my memory is not perfect, and there was a lot that the judges said that I didn’t understand. I’ll try to put this in chronological order.]

Lawyer ‘E’ (by herself) and I enter a room with a panel of three judges, all men. The judge in the middle (who reminded me of Colonel Potter from MASH), told me something about my not having a lawyer - that they don’t necessarily recommend this, and that they are not there to help me. I was really confused as to what his point was, and his no-nonsense disposition intimidated me. Hopefully this is something they have to tell everyone, and he wasn’t yelling at me.

One of the judges asked that anyone who would be offering testimony stand and be sworn in. I stood, but for some reason Insurance’s lawyer did not. They asked her if she was the defendant, and instead of just saying ‘yes’ she had a confusing answer that I can’t even remember. To me it seemed like she was confused.

I think she got to speak first. She pointed out that by my filing suit I didn’t go through the welfare system, which was the thing to do according to their correspondence. But the judges didn’t seem to find this fact to be important.

When it was my turn to speak I was asked to briefly state my complaint. So I used the same statement as in the first trial: "I have Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome and insulin resistance, both of which result in hirsutism, which is a male hair pattern on a woman. The insurance company’s definition of medical necessity says that they will cover a service that “will, or is reasonably expected to, reduce or ameliorate the physical, mental, or developmental effects of an illness, condition, injury, or disability.”

A short time later the judge in the middle asked me to briefly say why I was there, but without saying why I was there. I’m sure I misunderstood him, but that’s what I got out of it. I was confused as to what I was supposed to say and scared of making them angry. Very hesitantly I told them that I felt I had already stated that. Maybe this is the place in the trial where they asked me how much money I wanted. I said I wanted $2550 for the electrolysis plus $83 for the filing fee. They said that they’re not the ones I would get reimbursement for the filing fee from; I’d have to do that on my own. ???

I was visibly shaking and the judges were actually going to wait for me to calm down before proceeding. I told them to please just go ahead because I had been shaking since the night before and I didn’t think that it was going to stop. The judge on the left said to me, “Can I give you some advice. You need to relax.” (Starting a week before the trial, I was getting headaches and chest pains from worrying, and my OCD was more painful than usual. While I was in the courthouse waiting room, shaking all over and rubbing my temples, I was wondering why I’m putting myself through this.) Unfortunately, when the judge said this, I started crying. Everyone was really nice about it, though. The judge on the right (who looked like Donnie from Even Stevens) went out to get some Kleenex, the girl working in the waiting room brought me some, and I think even the Insurance lawyer did.

The lawyer brought basically the same papers as in the first trial, and she made reference to either or both of the same points as then (see my post #23597 - Wed Jul 27 2005 07:31 PM, paragraphs # 6 and 7). She pointed out that the definition of what is considered cosmetic is “not limited to” the list of examples given, so therefore electrolysis could be included.

The judges asked lawyer E if she had any expert testimony. She gave them some information printed out from WebMD. I don’t remember what it said, but the cool part was that the judge on the right said, “So you get your definitions from WebMD and not from your policy?” (Near the end of the trial, one of the judges said that Insurance needs to get their policy clear.)

I handed the judge on the right copies of my gynecologist’s letters, the prescription from my PCP, the Insurance Definition of Medical Necessity, and a 5" X 7" photo of my disgusting beard, which I placed on top for effect. (This was hard for me to do, because young guys make me nervous since I worry that they’re judging me as being ugly. Now I was showing one of them exactly how gross I really am.) While he was looking through my papers, he said to the Insurance lawyer, “In my opinion, this is outrageous”.

One of the judges asked her (regarding the Definition of Medical Necessity), “If I had a disease which caused my arm to fall off, would the treatment of that be covered?” She said she couldn’t answer that. At some during the trail, one of the judges said, “Black is black, and white is white.” I’m guessing that he was telling her that, according to the Definition, electrolysis should be covered.

She brought out that there are alternatives to electrolysis, such as oral birth control. So of course I told them that I’ve started having Depo-Provera injections. She also said that my PCP’s prescription mentioned that my hirsutism was causing me “emotional distress”, therefore it is not medical in nature. Lame!

Towards the end of the trial, the lawyer said that Insurance had not received the electrolysis bill. I showed her a copy I had made of all my electrologist’s receipts. Plus, I had with me the credit card bills to match.

When it was over, the Insurance lawyer left the room first. My mother, who was in the waiting room, said that the lawyer looked disgusted and that she gave my mother a dirty look. (The lawyer had been sitting right behind us in the waiting room before the trial.)

POST-TRIAL: A few days later I received in the mail a letter signed by all three judges stating that I won! The Insurance company had 30 days to appeal, and guess what, they waited til the very last day to file. The next trial is supposed to come this summer.

WOW! Good for you! You are so brave for facing them like that. Great job on tracking all of the details and following through. I can’t believe they even think they have a case. Good luck.

Congratulations!

POST-TRIAL: A few days later I received in the mail a letter signed by all three judges stating that I won! The Insurance company had 30 days to appeal, and guess what, they waited til the very last day to file. The next trial is supposed to come this summer.

Keep in mind, they know they are in the wrong. They just hope to delay, deny, and procrastinate until YOU give up on collecting.

When all their appeals are exhausted, they will probably just not pay you, just to see if you file for garnish and seizure to make them pay up. They will then pay you on the last possible day without being forced to do so. (if I got my facts straight, if they actually wait for the seizures to take place, they lose their ability to write policies in the jurisdiction where the garnishment is carried out.)

Insurance WON’T pay for LASER as it is not an FDA approved PERMANENT HAIR REMOVAL method. Insurance only covers Electrolysis.

Here’s an update on my story:

I received a letter from the court dated 5-8-06 telling me that my case is scheduled for a trial call in September. That much I understand. The second page is a different story. It says, in part:

 "Publication of this list constitutes a representation by counsel to the Court that the identities of trial counsel are correct; that the names of all counsel have been listed and that no cases have been consolidated except those shown on the list."

{What list? Is the first page that tells me that I’m going to court the list?}

 "Listed counsel or substitute counsel must report any changes to the Calendar Control Clerk, [So-and-So], within 5 days after publication of this notice, and no later."

{So I take it that I can’t go from representing myself to hiring a lawyer at this point, since my time is up.}

 "All Discovery to be completed by JULY 10, 2006.  All other requirements of PA R.C.P. 212 (including pre-trial statements) must be met by plaintiff (s) attorney on or before JULY 24, 2006, and by all other parties on or before AUGUST 7, 2006."

{Discovery means getting information before the trial from the other side, see http://dictionary.law.com for a better definition.

The next paragraph stated that unless there is a good reason, you have to complete discovery by the said date. Later on the letter says that the trial date is “a close estimate”. “If the case does not settle, a jury will be selected and trial begun thereafter.”

Then there was a list under the heading of “Trial Policy”, which I think I understand.

The next letter is dated 7-25-2006. It says that there will be a Pre-Trial Conciliation at the end of August. The definition of conciliation, according to FindLaw’s legal dictionary, is: “the settlement of a dispute by mutual and friendly agreement with a view to avoiding litigation.” If I settle out of court, I won’t set any precedents, right?

I received another letter dated 8-9-2006 from So, So, & So LLP. It’s another ‘Substitution of Counsel’ withdrawing the appearance of lawyer ‘N’, and entering the appearance of lawyer ‘L’ and So, So, & So LLP on behalf of Insurance.

Aside from all of this, I’d like to know whether I’ll have to sue for my future electrolysis treatments separately. Up to this point I’ve only been suing for the work that’s already been done. Did I blow it? After they finally give up and pay me, will they just change the policy so that I can’t finish off my beard? Is there any way for me to start bringing up in court that I expect them to pay for the rest?

I hope one of our legal eagles will volunteer something to this. I can only tell you that a verdict in this case will at least set precedent in regards to any future situations between you and the other party where the information is the same. (Read, making you sue them for future payments would only be a way to stall, but not a way to avoid payment in future should the jury find in your favor. It would also make future cases on the same information VERY short, once a court date was set.)

I believe you can represent yourself or you can take one of their free lawyers. I think when they mention a “lawyer”, they just mean whoever you choose to be your lawyer, whether it’s yourself or someone you hire.

One can only get free lawyers if someone files against you. One can never get a free lawyer if one is filing against someone else… of course, if it seems like you have a case that could easily make lots of dough, many lawyers will take you on contingency, but you will still be the one paying the filing fees and other expenses should you lose the case.