About “estimates”

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
#21

YES Beate! You are absolutely right! When you have someone like Josefa the difference in timing DOES matter.It DOES make a difference.
However, there is a very big caveate that anyone reading this needs to know, it’s the great equalizer, human nature. Jossie is PREDICTING the end of the cycle and withdrawing the probe and moving to the next with great skill. She has learned the timing to that degree of accuracy. But for every Josefa, there are 10000 other electrologists who havent mastered this skill. Who have “average” reaction times. These are the electrologists that someone reading here, is going to have treatment by. It’s not fair to hold each one of them to the same standard as someone who is extraordinary in their field. For those 10000 electrologists, ( and their patients) thermolysis is NOT faster.

Seana

#22

Are you aware that the average person performing blend has the probe sitting in the follicle for 7 to 30 seconds waiting for the treatment to do its thing, compared to thermolysis/diathermy treatments lasting no longer than a second or two? The number of blenders who are in the follicle for less than 4 seconds seems to be something less than the ‘Throw a dart at the phone book’ possibility.

#23

I know I’m in the follicle that long. But we were discussing so called “Fast blend” not generic everyday blend.

Seana

#24

I don’t think you can make a statement like "the average ‘anything’ " unless you have interviewed all (or most) of “them!” It’s a statement based on a few observations and then opinion … and, that’s the point I’m trying to make.

I’ve been involved in “the blend” for 40 years and done tons of conferences and seminars. Wouldn’t you assume I had a bit more understanding of "the average blend operator?” (Besides, “30-seconds in the follicle” indicates absolutely no understanding here whatsoever. This is fantasy!)

Discussing “time in the follicle” is a useless enterprise (and yet always the focus). What matters … the ONLY thing that matters … is the TOTAL time it takes to complete the job … i.e., all “jobs” and “any job.”

Repeat: SPEED is the TOTAL time it takes to complete the job!
Am I the only one that understands this? Please, I want to know!

Operators, all operators … (electrologists and laser operators), should start posting their work (all over the place) with real photos and total times. (Put in the bad reactions too. SHOW EVERYTHING!) And then, let the data present the facts … not this endless “opinion” based on a few observations.

Get out your camera, or buy one if you need to. Start taking photos of EVERYTHING and start counting up treatment hours. Finish off with a nice “before and after” and the total time it took (cost would be great too). And just shut up about ALL “methods!”

It’s what clients WANT to see … I don’t think most of them are interested in our constant “jib-jab.” Please … any customers “out there” who agree with me?

I’m a customer too and I want to see your work (in progress is always best)! This is not some sort of “challenge” … it’s just what I think we should be doing! I’m in competition with nobody! Besides, Jossie (a thermolysis operator) beats the hell out of me in every situation! I don’t come anywhere near her TTT!

It’s really sad that so many of us THINK we know what the other guy is doing based on “supposition.” We need some sort of “instrument” (other than commercial schools, manufacturers or blogs) to openly showcase EVERY technique and strategy in the field (all laser and all electrolysis).

(Oh yeah … there are tons of “suppositions” made against thermolysis operators too. I hear this “silly stuff” all the time and it “just taint so!” Again, opinion based on a few observations.) But then, this is what we humans do all the time. It’s so much easier to “dismiss the other guy” when we feel uncomfortable.

I have an über-conservative “Rush Limbaugh-type” friend (yes, I really do!). He listens to a commentator but cannot make up his own mind until he discovers if the person is a “Liberal or a Conservative.” If the person is a Conservative, he agrees … if the person is a Liberal, he instantly disagrees. Yeah, it’s like THAT!

#25

Just as a “silly” point of reference: I’m a socialist (not the CCCP-type!) and also an atheist. Well, sort of …

However, I have (mostly) Republican and Christian friends (a few Jews, here and there). I attend church (temple) often and get A LOT out of it. (I probably go to church(s) more than the average Christian!) It’s wonderful!

I discuss politics and religion all the time (and SEX too!). I mean, that’s the fun stuff! I see the world as a smorgasbord! Overall, my mind is still not “made up” and I’m open to all options! Who am I to say “no God?” I also change my mind all the time (as you can see by my comments on Hairtell.)

Being wrong is an okay option!

#26

I’m a godless heathen. I find more prejudice in organized religion circles than anywhere else. I have other reasons as well, but I prefer to leave religion out of…anything.

You wont get a TTT out of me. I dont keep track! But I do see it’s value. I had a post written out at one point for this thread with regards to this, but deleted it because I didnt want to start a discussion I wasnt prepared for. I’m becoming more conservative like that and because of certain events in my life, less prepared to deal with conflict.

Seana

#27

Which is really what’s “amazing” for most of us. Anybody who spent any amount of time researching hair removal options, or even undergoing various treatment methods, prior to running into this forum most likely went away with the impression that for a large amount of hair electrolysis is just not an option. It’s like what you read and experience calibrates your expectations about the time duration necessary, and how difficult and limited the whole process is. Then you step in here and it’s like every mundane picture of the work you guys do is shattering every expectation you have .

One thing is for sure: you guys need far more exposure than what you’re getting.

#28

I happen to disagree with most of what you say Jad.
There is almost zero resources on hair removal of any worth on the web, save hairtell. I’ve done TONS of searching, and frankly what is out there is largely full of conjecture and misinformation with zero fact to back it up and even less research or experience. I’ve found the hairtell folks more than willing to back up their opinion with fact, that can be shown beyond doubt.
Electrolysis is far from exciting, there are a great number of realities that make it anything but exciting in a lot of ways.But I challenge you to show me a single resource on the web that has more expertise and exposure anywhere aside from Hairtell. Because I’ve looked, and such a resource does not exist.

There are more than a dozen professionals regularly posting here with more than 20 years experience each. Show me a single resource anywhere that can make such a claim! It may seem that what is said here to you is mundane, but it’s realistic and on target and backed up by experience and fact, not conjecture.There is more experimentation, and research that takes place as a result of discussions here, than anywhere else. How much more exposure do you want? In the world of hair removal, Hairtell is "the world at your fingertips’ .

Seana

1 Like
#29

I like Jad’s comments (and Seana’s too … as always!). But Jad’s comments reinforce a characteristic in our trade that has always been bothersome to me: none of us really know what the others are doing! We often think we know, but we do not know in actuality.

The negative comments I get indicate that some people seriously do not know what I’m doing because they have never seen my work “up close and personal.” And that’s okay. However, nobody should simply DISMISS (or misrepresent) what someone else is doing based on supposition.

Why would I have any right whatsoever to make any statements about, say, Dee Dee’s technique since I have never seen her work? And yet, a lot of us DO make statements that (actually) cannot be backed-up with any data or statistics.

Again, we all like to stay in our “comfort zone” and hold onto out preconceived notions, and will therefore make a quick judgment. In this way, whatever we are doing, or believe, is not questioned or threatened.

If you make a statement, back it up! Don’t just offer another opinion. Look back in this thread and read many unsubstantiated statements that are detrimental to others doing great work.

I suppose my “job” here on Hairtell has been (and will remain) making people uncomfortable. Having your ideas and prejudices challenged is, I sincerely believe, a very good thing. Sometimes our ideas are reinforced by challenge, and other times the challenge can alter our thinking.

I hang out with ALL kinds of intellectual odd balls … Why be normal? My friends challenge me and I challenge them. Why the hell would I hang out with people that only have my views on things? I’d be better off talking to a mirror.

I taught history for a few years. Every semester some kid was taken out of my class by an irate parent that didn’t like my iconoclastic approach to, well, just about everything. Rather than “teach History,” I was trying to teach THINKING.

I will be posting some photos in the morning … “How to thin a guy’s chest.” There are many ways … this will showcase one technique.

#30

I’m not sure where we disagree. I wasn’t saying there were better resources, I was saying that whatever resources there are out there, don’t paint a correct picture. Also, by “mundane” I meant that as far as Michael and others are concerned, what they do is not a big deal, but it’s obviously a big deal to many here who first approach this forum coming from a jungle of misinformation and conjecture as you point out.

#31

Perhaps i misunderstood.
Having done a clearance, I have a whole new respect for what Michael and others here do. It’s FAR from easy. Mind younot being able to see the same way as thye do and doing self-insertions may make my job more difficult. What they do is in no way mundane or easy, but I suppose it may seem so to someone like Michael, who’s been doing what he does for over 40 years.

Seana

#32

I just read thru a few posts, in my usual random way. My setting, SeanaTG, on the DC is 1.5mA (I believe that is at least 2X more than your highest DC setting … as you stated it?) and HF set at near “max” on my Hinkel machine.

Lovely Melody Froc in Vancouver works exactly like I do (after a little coaching last year) and she’s finding this all pretty “no big deal” as well. She’s WAY into body hair and is loving it.

#33

I’d have to verify to be sure but I think for DC the max setting is 0.99 MA on the Apilus . I’ve never come close to that amount. Your settings are definitely higher than I had envisioned then. I have ONCE used the thermolysis on maximum setting as a test , on someone who insisted “Make it hurt” ( Dont ask, I have weird friends) and the Apilus was VERY noisy, you could hear the power supply humming quite loudly.I’m not used to hearing anything but beeps come from my machine.

Seana

#34

Well, Johnson, the time has come, now you’re in the same place.
Curious, the first clearance in your back has required almost the same time as Michael’s client. And I bet my neck that results will be identical.

Before:

DSC07095.JPG769×577

A week and a half later:

DSC07221.JPG769×577

A week and a half later and things will never be the same again. With only 23 years old, you’re almost ready to reach your goal.
I’m not the person to say this, but when you decided to leave the laser treatments, and try Electrolysis, you made a wise decision.

#35

wow really nice work. Why is there so much irritation on the panty line though? Seems an odd spot for sensative skin.

Seana

#36

Because the photo was taken just at the end of the session. It is a densely populated area of terminal hairs. The higher the density (hairs per cm2), and the greater the number of treated hairs, the greater the inflammation.

#37

No Seana, what you are seeing in Jossie’s photo is TOTALLY NORMAL. In fact, a nice PERFECT response like this is what I WANT to see.

Sure, a lot of electrologists “brag” that their “after electrolysis” skin is just perfect. Usually, these same therapists claim, “there is no pain with my treatment.” AND, why is that?

Well, the only “pain” the client feels is the PLUCKING! See, you get no “pain” and you get “perfect skin” when you USE NO CURRENT!

#38

Further …

A few days ago Dee Dee posted some great photos of her patients. In her photos, you also see a NICE response: swelling and red skin. It looked SUPER!

Dee Dee did say that the “treatment was tolerable” for the client. She did NOT say “completely painless.”

We all know: “If you FEEL nothing, that’s because NOTHING is happening!”

Yep!

#39

Swelling is pretty normal. Scabbing can be too. I was just wondering why that one area seemed unhappy is all.Jossee’s explanation makes a lot of sense. I had also wondered if irritation from underwear might have been a cause. Either sweat on underpants or reaction to fabric scents or softeners used in washing ones clothes . I tend to have to use a lot of scent/dye free detergents or my family’s skin start to react especially if the skin is already irritated from something like electrolysis.

Seana

#40

A great quote to my collection of favorite quotes. Thank you! :smiley: